Why it feels bad to be a Pure Mage & What can be done to fix it

[Emdash]

Dear veteran player!

With all due respect I, like many other players, came to this game solely because of the magic system.

If you have played a mage since MO1 then you should know about it's issues. What I don't understand is why would you go and ridicule people that do a lot of work to provide suggestions to make game better?

Since the launch all I hear is everyone talking about how the game has a lot of potential, that it needs to attract more players. Instead of continuing to pretend that the problem doesn't exist, we should be helping Henrik's team and the game advance by giving feedback. We won't get far by promoting such mentality and continue to loose dedicated players.

DEAR NOOB!

Just joking. This community has a lot of strange people who like to 'pull your card' or whatever when they are talking about stuff. Those sort of logical fallacies. At some point, it makes sense, but once you've played the game... it kinda doesn't? lol. I don't see jack as one of those people, tho he does shitpost like we all do.

The part of the post I quoted is what I don't understand. Came for the magic? I can see why you'd be upset. Cuz MO magic is not the same. It's actually a v high skill class, just not as mechanical (cept for me, mr fizz.) Maging is easy if you are playing with S tier players in other roles, obviously, but mages are likely the ones who actually decide fights (at least pre magic reflect, dono about the now heh.) Mage fits very well into the game. Ecu mage was pretty 'fair and balanced,' I think. Fat mage was kinda aids, but along w/ other MO1 mounteds, it probably was pretty balanced, too.

Then there came the dissatisfaction. I'm def not saying you shouldn't be dissatisfied if you can't do what you want. You absolutely SHOULD, but it almost seems like there should be a whole different class to fill the role that people seem to want. Like MMO nuker mage. They added different schools, but they never really fixed the problems. I mean, in 'hard' PvE games, solo mage is very hard to do, if not impossible. So it's always been a support class. Some games have like 'earth magic' and such that lets you tank, but in general, your nuker should not be solo-ing. That's like some derp korean rotation farm balance.

If they gave you nukes, they'd have to take away your other stuff. MAGE in MO is super confused by traditional standards since they gave them 'all the spells' straight out, like, that's how the game was designed. There aren't healers, dps, and debuffers. It's all just there. The Ecu mage kit, again, the original kit, was pretty fucking solid and fit. You could farm w/ it too because you could kite mobs. It wasn't fast, tho.

But yea, people are wanting a different type of mage, which is cool, but if it's a totally diff concept, it should be a different class IMO, not just a school. To the point where you can't cross-spec. Dunno how I feel about nukers in general in MO, but there's tons of other things I am not happy about (pots for instance,) either.

The reason I type the last few paragraphs is because of the 'since the launch,' 'advance and give feedback...' show me this round table, I want to be there for it. Stuff is getting added, but it doesn't seem to have a rhyme or reason. I think SV is actually feeling pressured to lose mages, like you said, and that is negatively affecting balance.

I dunno what the answer is, but definitely it would be something to talk about. The thing is... there's a lot of things we need to talk about in MO, and as far as I know, we're not gonna get the amount of time/attention to have a proper debate and come to a consensus (cept here in fantasy land where we pretend people are listening.)

The second problem is the repeated notion that you should not even be able to sit at that table if you're not a top 1% pvper. I guess nobody realizes that all that would do is perpetuate the top 1% play style which I think we can ALL AGREE IS PRETTY BAD.

We need people with unique ideas, people who don't get all emo, and most of all, we need dev teams that are dedicated to listening. Never forget... people talk about Henrik's vision, but this is our game. Some lo pop indie game we paid/donated for and are gonna sub for? We're not gonna continue to punish ourselves with A. Henrik's whimsical vision or B. Whatever the fuck weird suggestions do make it thru to dev team and get implemented.

So yea, we're all on the same page w/ that... but yea lemme know when we get that feedback forum set up. I'll sign up. Shit I would even join Mo2 official discord if I felt we could all get together and discuss balance. I'd even get on the FUCKING MIC.

 

[Clavde]

The problem is simple: Because mages don't need armor to deal high damage, and because mages can deal damage through armor, they will always have to be 'meh' because if you buff mages then they can just run around naked with a few reagents and kill fully geared up players. So they can't make mages good, could only fix it without unbalancing the broken risk/reward system of being a mage

I've seen naked archers more often actually. No class needs armour to do damage

 

[Fearce]

I've seen naked archers more often actually. No class needs armour to do damage

Don't forget the graveyard griefers with starter swords. Where are all the starter reagents that automaticly refill after death and can not be dropped? Just joking of course but the truth is that mages are not even skillheavy like this guy describes them when speaking about nukers:

DEAR NOOB!

Just joking. This community has a lot of strange people who like to 'pull your card' or whatever when they are talking about stuff. Those sort of logical fallacies. At some point, it makes sense, but once you've played the game... it kinda doesn't? lol. I don't see jack as one of those people, tho he does shitpost like we all do.

The part of the post I quoted is what I don't understand. Came for the magic? I can see why you'd be upset. Cuz MO magic is not the same. It's actually a v high skill class, just not as mechanical (cept for me, mr fizz.) Maging is easy if you are playing with S tier players in other roles, obviously, but mages are likely the ones who actually decide fights (at least pre magic reflect, dono about the now heh.) Mage fits very well into the game. Ecu mage was pretty 'fair and balanced,' I think. Fat mage was kinda aids, but along w/ other MO1 mounteds, it probably was pretty balanced, too.

Then there came the dissatisfaction. I'm def not saying you shouldn't be dissatisfied if you can't do what you want. You absolutely SHOULD, but it almost seems like there should be a whole different class to fill the role that people seem to want. Like MMO nuker mage. They added different schools, but they never really fixed the problems. I mean, in 'hard' PvE games, solo mage is very hard to do, if not impossible. So it's always been a support class. Some games have like 'earth magic' and such that lets you tank, but in general, your nuker should not be solo-ing. That's like some derp korean rotation farm balance.

If they gave you nukes, they'd have to take away your other stuff. MAGE in MO is super confused by traditional standards since they gave them 'all the spells' straight out, like, that's how the game was designed. There aren't healers, dps, and debuffers. It's all just there. The Ecu mage kit, again, the original kit, was pretty fucking solid and fit. You could farm w/ it too because you could kite mobs. It wasn't fast, tho.

But yea, people are wanting a different type of mage, which is cool, but if it's a totally diff concept, it should be a different class IMO, not just a school. To the point where you can't cross-spec. Dunno how I feel about nukers in general in MO, but there's tons of other things I am not happy about (pots for instance,) either.

The reason I type the last few paragraphs is because of the 'since the launch,' 'advance and give feedback...' show me this round table, I want to be there for it. Stuff is getting added, but it doesn't seem to have a rhyme or reason. I think SV is actually feeling pressured to lose mages, like you said, and that is negatively affecting balance.

I dunno what the answer is, but definitely it would be something to talk about. The thing is... there's a lot of things we need to talk about in MO, and as far as I know, we're not gonna get the amount of time/attention to have a proper debate and come to a consensus (cept here in fantasy land where we pretend people are listening.)

The second problem is the repeated notion that you should not even be able to sit at that table if you're not a top 1% pvper. I guess nobody realizes that all that would do is perpetuate the top 1% play style which I think we can ALL AGREE IS PRETTY BAD.

We need people with unique ideas, people who don't get all emo, and most of all, we need dev teams that are dedicated to listening. Never forget... people talk about Henrik's vision, but this is our game. Some lo pop indie game we paid/donated for and are gonna sub for? We're not gonna continue to punish ourselves with A. Henrik's whimsical vision or B. Whatever the fuck weird suggestions do make it thru to dev team and get implemented.

So yea, we're all on the same page w/ that... but yea lemme know when we get that feedback forum set up. I'll sign up. Shit I would even join Mo2 official discord if I felt we could all get together and discuss balance. I'd even get on the FUCKING MIC.

I'm sorry but mages have nothing to do with skill. Maybe positioning but there is no skill involved. Just a clunky and bad developed system. If you want to compare this with skill, the only point you can use is the targeting system. Mages need to be able to aim. It is not about releasing clunky ass system where you need 9 casts to control 3 undeads or need another 6 steps just to make them follow you after you put walkers on your enemy. If you want to break it down to a skill based system it is all about aiming. And after you change the mage system to not feel clunky and unresponsive any more by actually be able to control what you do, you can balance it by tuning damage and heals.
I do get the point that walkers are strong if you would be able to just summon them and use the pet controls to shotgun them at enemies. But only because the system has no limit. You can pratically summon walkers until you run out of mana, which for a fatmage takes a while but why??? Why not limit it to 3 walkers and make themhit for 5 damage instead of 30-40 each?? I really don't get why the balances of this game are made with clunky ass interfaces and breaking finger button configurations. A lot more players would actually play the game if you would at least make the combat feel responsive!

 

[ArcaneConsular]

I've seen naked archers more often actually. No class needs armour to do damage

True, but magic is the only one that ignores armour, so fighting a naked player as a mage is the same as fighting one in full steel. I guess that's what I meant.

 

[Emdash]

I'm sorry but mages have nothing to do with skill.

everything in this game requires skill, up to caps that most people cannot realistically reach. If I had said hand-eye, ok, but skill...

noun
the ability to do something well; expertise.


or wiki

An ability and capacity acquired through deliberate, systematic, and sustained effort to smoothly and adaptively carryout complex activities or job functions involving ideas (cognitive skills), things (technical skills), and/or people (interpersonal skills).

____

People talking about no skill are delusional. The closest thing to no skill would be like pets, but acquiring them, protecting them, and deploying them requires high lvl planning. That's why you see some people mad about their pets getting griefed. The limiting factor in MO is YOU. That is skill. Yes, I dislike a lot of the ways skill, especially mechanical skill, are implemented in the game, but you can do everything w/ skill. Shit, you could put two people gathering BOR and the more skilled person would be much more successful.

I dono what the obsession with this is skilled... this is not... is. I def dislike cheez and all that tho and a lot of the game direction, but even now, one cannot say that there is anything that doesn't require skill. Even will is arguably a skill. You need skill to just live in MO. That's the draw. That'll keep you on a rush for a long time until you finally realize this is some tinypop indie game and it's probably not worth it.

BUT if you step back and have fun, like I try to tell people, it's a worthwhile challenge a lot of the time.

and nobody wants to listen. I feel like people wanna get trolled. My 'cool life stories' might get annoying, but if you try to extract what I'm saying, I think a lot of people have yet to grasp it and, thus, are really setting themselves up for a hard fall (like John in the other thread.)

w/e. DO U.

 

[Deathstrik3]

but in general, your nuker should not be solo-ing. That's like some derp korean rotation farm balance.

I don't think any of the dedicated mage players are expecting to full on solo farm as easily as a foot fighter, or better. I believe we all just want things to be more reliably doable without needing to rely on other build skills. The closest a mage can get to doing something solo with only magic is as a mounted mage. Though, I guess technically Domination is a mage skill, but a lot of mages don't want pets for several reasons, one of which being the crazy amount of points required. If you're going Taming or Domination with a mage, you're most likely a tamer/dominator first and mage second, using mainly ecumenical spells to keep the pet alive and provide some supporting damage.

The expectations of a mage being able to solo farm bandits without a mount, close to as efficiently as a foot fighter or archer, isn't unreasonable. As it stands right now, I doubt even the best mages in the game that don't use weapons or pets can even remotely keep up with the rate the average foot fighter can farm bandits. Let alone the best of them. The best foot fighters can effectively fight forever while taking little to no damage, maybe having to stop a few times an hour to keep stamina reserves up. A mage without weapons or pets can kill a couple of bandits before having to sit and meditate for a few minutes.

This problem should be extremely apparent from Jasa's initial post, she said "I farmed out 20 clade in less than 60hrs on a footfighter and my Mage is still at clade 17 after 1240hrs." This is from a highly experienced player, in a big guild, that constantly does dungeon runs and other stuff that should be rewarding ample clade. But the fact is, mages just don't get it in a group. Either the footies kill stuff too fast for us to get a decent share of experience, or everyone chips in and the experience per person is abysmal. Farming for clade experience solo as a mage takes far too long, due to the constant downtime between kills. You said it yourself, mages in MO are clearly not meant to just be supports, but the simple fact is that's what most get relegated to. Sure, it can be enjoyable at times, but there are those of us who don't want to be a dedicated support. Hell, even the ones that want to be a dedicated support, some of them would still like to level up on their own time at a decent rate.

TL;DR None of us are asking to be better than the footies at solo content and farming. We just want to be more capable of actually getting stuff done with just magic, without having to fallback on melee combat or pets, or both. Also, kind of related, mounted magery feels terrible. I think it should be possible to turn and adjust speed while casting, or at least adjust speed.

 

[Emdash]

I don't think any of the dedicated mage players are expecting to full on solo farm as easily as a foot fighter, or better. I believe we all just want things to be more reliably doable without needing to rely on other build skills. The closest a mage can get to doing something solo with only magic is as a mounted mage. Though, I guess technically Domination is a mage skill, but a lot of mages don't want pets for several reasons, one of which being the crazy amount of points required. If you're going Taming or Domination with a mage, you're most likely a tamer/dominator first and mage second, using mainly ecumenical spells to keep the pet alive and provide some supporting damage.

The expectations of a mage being able to solo farm bandits without a mount, close to as efficiently as a foot fighter or archer, isn't unreasonable. As it stands right now, I doubt even the best mages in the game that don't use weapons or pets can even remotely keep up with the rate the average foot fighter can farm bandits. Let alone the best of them. The best foot fighters can effectively fight forever while taking little to no damage, maybe having to stop a few times an hour to keep stamina reserves up. A mage without weapons or pets can kill a couple of bandits before having to sit and meditate for a few minutes.

This problem should be extremely apparent from Jasa's initial post, she said "I farmed out 20 clade in less than 60hrs on a footfighter and my Mage is still at clade 17 after 1240hrs." This is from a highly experienced player, in a big guild, that constantly does dungeon runs and other stuff that should be rewarding ample clade. But the fact is, mages just don't get it in a group. Either the footies kill stuff too fast for us to get a decent share of experience, or everyone chips in and the experience per person is abysmal. Farming for clade experience solo as a mage takes far too long, due to the constant downtime between kills. You said it yourself, mages in MO are clearly not meant to just be supports, but the simple fact is that's what most get relegated to. Sure, it can be enjoyable at times, but there are those of us who don't want to be a dedicated support. Hell, even the ones that want to be a dedicated support, some of them would still like to level up on their own time at a decent rate.

TL;DR None of us are asking to be better than the footies at solo content and farming. We just want to be more capable of actually getting stuff done with just magic, without having to fallback on melee combat or pets, or both. Also, kind of related, mounted magery feels terrible. I think it should be possible to turn and adjust speed while casting, or at least adjust speed.

I feel you, you should read my post on the first page.

Also dunno if I agree w/ the whole turning or w/e... it seems like I can understand parts, but then people want other stuff that doesn't really make sense (to me?)

Wait til Molvas haha. Did soo much content w/ Molvas AND they have bags. Dunno that even Campos can compare.

Also keep in mind IF pets are a way around it and, situationally OP, everything you give to a mage, you are giving to a tamer mage as well, unless they drastically change the spec. Like I said, I feel it should be a whole diff spec if people wanna play farm-mage.

Again, tired of hearing this zz experienced player bullshit lol sorry, but I really, really am.

It's like... people... don't think I played the game... or it's predecessor. Sad. And I wasn't even in a big guild. I was gonna say my skill comment also needs to be quantified with numbers. That's one thing that WILL overwhelm skill. You can hide a lot of bad play 'in a big guild,' too. Just a different look.

For instance dudes who say mage is easy prol never tried to mage for Bakti Boys vs EC haha. I dono. Mite be time for me to leave the forums.

- droplets of wisdom follow... or are they... tears?! -

 

[Jatix]

What sucks for mages is that the way they are currently designed is essential (and very effective) mixed in groups. So SV wont buff them because then they could be OP. But on their own they have significant issues. Even crafting is a pain in the ass because your carry weight is shit.

Wait til Molvas haha. Did soo much content w/ Molvas AND they have bags. Dunno that even Campos can compare.

This. Combat pets with bags completely fix the mages cant solo pve thing. SV just needs to get their priorities straight and add stuff like this instead of junk like bounty hunting.

I don't think any of the dedicated mage players are expecting to full on solo farm as easily as a foot fighter, or better.

Whats funny is solo foot fighters still completely suck at PVE. Especially if you are in low risk shit gear like you should be solo. You shoot 1 bandit and pull 3 and a vet, which parry you and run and bandage. Just annoying. And bandits are easy for PVE standards. MA is the only true way to PVE in this game. My solution is to just not PVE lmao. And the foot fighters that have any success in PVE are actually foot archers.

 

[Teknique]

Will agree that mortal online and especially the sequel has the most poorly designed class system likely in any game ever in the history of games. Likely including games developed by other civilizations on other planets and likely spanning past present future and even all dimensions of reality. I'm also not being hyperbolic I mean that literally.

 

[Alanel]

DEAR NOOB!

The part of the post I quoted is what I don't understand. Came for the magic? I can see why you'd be upset. Cuz MO magic is not the same. It's actually a v high skill class, just not as mechanical (cept for me, mr fizz.) Maging is easy if you are playing with S tier players in other roles, obviously, but mages are likely the ones who actually decide fights (at least pre magic reflect, dono about the now heh.) Mage fits very well into the game. Ecu mage was pretty 'fair and balanced,' I think. Fat mage was kinda aids, but along w/ other MO1 mounteds, it probably was pretty balanced, too.

Heya! Thank you for your reply. (just to clarify, I am not being sarcastic neither in this message, nor in my previous one. I'm quite serious. That's just how I write in english kek).

I'll try to elaborate on what I meant. This is the first game that I feel a challenge to play and I REALLY like Henrik's ground concept for it. This one is the most interesting magic concept in a game of this genre. All the restrictions and dedication it requires is awesome! That is why i will continue to play. For now.

I have read your other posts on this matter and it seems to me, that this humble mage and people answering you have failed to grasp what you are trying to say. I'll do my best, please tell me if I am correct.

- Pure mage (all points in magic) is hard and bad gameplay-wise because it was never meant to be played that way. Everyone in this game should be a hybrid (or pure melee) and that's how it should work. Correct?

- If you want to play pure mage it would be a different class, which is not implemented. Correct?

But yea, people are wanting a different type of mage, which is cool, but if it's a totally diff concept, it should be a different class IMO, not just a school. To the point where you can't cross-spec. Dunno how I feel about nukers in general in MO, but there's tons of other things I am not happy about (pots for instance,) either.

Is this what we - players that are trying to be pure mages - are failing to grasp by your understanding while leaving feedback in this forum?

If they gave you nukes, they'd have to take away your other stuff. MAGE in MO is super confused by traditional standards since they gave them 'all the spells' straight out, like, that's how the game was designed. There aren't healers, dps, and debuffers. It's all just there. The Ecu mage kit, again, the original kit, was pretty fucking solid and fit. You could farm w/ it too because you could kite mobs. It wasn't fast, tho.

Magic in this game is not confusing to me. What confuses me is why dedicated mages have no place in this game (as far as I am understanding from your and other ppl's posts), when the game is actually leading you to this path, but gives nothing in return. Henrik also said numerous times that school specialization will provide bonuses to gameplay, but nothing has been done so far. And that is why we are trying to help by providing feedback and urging to make this changes before people leave the game.

We have to find a common ground in-between players first, before we reach to devs it seems.

Yours truly.

 

[Deathstrik3]

a whole diff spec if people wanna play farm-mage.

This is basically what I want. Tamer mages should be a thing, pure tamers should be a thing, tamer archers, and then pure mages. A pure mage should require other skills that a tamer can't afford, this can potentially be the additional schools of magic, but it should probably be additional supporting skills. Things that a character with magic as a secondary skill can easily ignore without feeling hampered, but something that a pure mage will need to be effective at farming. Maybe advanced mana management skills that increase the mana pool and recovery of mana or something.

Again, tired of hearing this zz experienced player bullshit lol sorry, but I really, really am.

It was less about a comparison with experienced vs non experienced players. Just look at it from a perspective of two new players, or just two players of "equal player skill". One is a footie, the other is a pure mage with no weapon or taming skills. The footie will farm 10x faster.

This. Combat pets with bags completely fix the mages cant solo pve thing. SV just needs to get their priorities straight and add stuff like this instead of junk like bounty hunting.

But that's still part of the issue, what about people who don't want to use pets? The people who want to just be a mage. A character should be viable solo by purely specializing into one "class".

Whats funny is solo foot fighters still completely suck at PVE. Especially if you are in low risk shit gear like you should be solo. You shoot 1 bandit and pull 3 and a vet, which parry you and run and bandage. Just annoying. And bandits are easy for PVE standards. MA is the only true way to PVE in this game. My solution is to just not PVE lmao. And the foot fighters that have any success in PVE are actually foot archers.

This plays into something others have said, time to kill for players is too high, and time to kill for NPCs that should be equivalent to players like bandits is comparatively too high. Also, AI performance in general is fucky for some NPCs, the ranger bandits that run backwards at full speed while shooting are a great example of something terrible.

 

[Emdash]

Yours truly.

Nah, I think Death understood it better. It is my belief that there is not really a way to spec the sort of mage you guys wanna play as a school. Armor wt/regen... all stuff that matters, the way PvE is built, even parry... all that stuff is not gonna work for a normal mage. My point was it needs to be a completely different build (which wow would add some new flavor to MO for the first time in forever, lol I'm sorry but I dunno if these other schools added anything, just different types of the same shit... more OP pets. I guess moving casting and AoE 'ward' type spells were new.)

My belief is there needs to be a class that can take dmg (e.g. more armor wt, armor spells, maybe even a diff pool than 'mana,' and/or evade/negate dmg (no rolls/ iframes plzzz) similar to a parry. These are the reasons why mage is bad at PvE/solo. It was never built as that, and it never can be that. Parry was always a huge factor in PvE for instance. Back in da day, it was all center block parry, but the window was shorter and the timing was wonky on most enemies. Still, that's more or less necessary, some form of that.

IF you do that, then you can say MO MAGE IS FINE, stop trying to add fucked up magic schools... unless staff magic turns into what I am suggesting, but conceptually, it needs to be rebuilt from the ground up because even if you guys got what you wanted, it still wouldn't work heh. But you would be more OP in some other circumstances.

Again, it must be impossible or at least as gimped as a hybrid would be to cross spec, though. Or maybe you should be able to spec SOME MELEE but not into magic. The kit of a mage is good, it's just not for PvE/dps. If you allow those two to mix, you end up with something massively OP.

I don't think very many people understand what I am trying to say, ever, and I imagine it must be at least half my fault. I do write wild sentences, but I enjoy messing w/ words. I also think people are way too quick to dismiss 'outside of the box' thinking when, again IMO, THAT'S WHY WE ARE WHERE WE ARE.

I'll be real, tho, I don't think I've ever misunderstood someone's post on a forum the way people misunderstand mine, unless it was straight google translate, but even then, if you focus on verbs and nouns, diagram the sentences in your head, etc, you can get some idea of what is going on.

peace.

 

[Deathstrik3]

The kit of a mage is good, it's just not for PvE/dps. If you allow those two to mix, you end up with something massively OP.

I somewhat agree with this, and I do think the best solution to this would be something like the Diablo 2 shield spell. A portion of all damage taken is transferred to Mana while the spell is active, it doesn't take all damage, the effectiveness can be better as your skill goes up. That is something that would only be effective on someone with a lot of mana and the skill points invested for that school of magic. Also have it reduce or negate spell interruption from damage while it is active. It will help keep a mage alive in melee combat, but at the cost of massive mana drain. Another possible option I guess would be a skill that lets mages cast with one hand, then let them use a shield while casting spells without needing to put the weapon away. The free hand casts the spells, and you can interrupt your own casting to block. There are definitely a lot of possible options for making mage feel more fun and rewarding that won't just make it OP.

 

[Midas]

being a mage isnt fun fluid or rewarding. the developer needs to take a step back from the balancing idea and just make it fun first lmao. theres several easy ways to fix these issues and i dont say easy from a coding standpoint.

Theory and practice only. ecumenical was designed/copied straight out of ultima online. ya you still hadto stop to cast but melee swings technicly where not aimed by the enemy player opposing the mage. in uo your hit % chance was based off of the melee skill of choice. essentialy RNG. this allowed for things like mages being able to dodge while standing side by side with a melee charecter when they failed to hit or "wiff" to get a heal in between casting offensive spells to 1v1. there is many fixes to this problem but i feel they have all been shot down. "every mage school has different limitations" its redundant in a way , in fact the way mages are looked at in general is even flawed and even limiting.

if your a necromancer with a sword you should not be considred a mage... youd be a hybrid necro.

Spirists are spiritists lmao they are not mages simply because they use spiritist magic.

Magic schools is a great concept but to be a true mage ecumenical should be your bread and butter and it should be solo viable in both pvp and pve And yah you should be able to 1v2 or even 1/3 if you are a skilled enough
...hell footies do it all the time.

Staff magic would fix alot of issues , it doesnt even hafto be its own school lmao just needs yo be a staff or wand that the dmg is based of intelligence.

All Defensive and healing spells should be somwhat affected by psych.

Being able to cast while moving should be revised imo and at least at a spell wich would give you like an arcane shield equiped on your arm while casting or somthing like damn. i wanna like and play this game so bad it hurts and i know alot of people feel the same way , i dont think i hafto say that this was a huge let down for 99% of the uo vets that heard henrik speak about it as though it meant somthing to him.

Ecumnical should be pure mage solo viable.

 

[Fearce]

being a mage isnt fun fluid or rewarding. the developer needs to take a step back from the balancing idea and just make it fun first lmao. theres several easy ways to fix these issues and i dont say easy from a coding standpoint.

Theory and practice only. ecumenical was designed/copied straight out of ultima online. ya you still hadto stop to cast but melee swings technicly where not aimed by the enemy player opposing the mage. in uo your hit % chance was based off of the melee skill of choice. essentialy RNG. this allowed for things like mages being able to dodge while standing side by side with a melee charecter when they failed to hit or "wiff" to get a heal in between casting offensive spells to 1v1. there is many fixes to this problem but i feel they have all been shot down. "every mage school has different limitations" its redundant in a way , in fact the way mages are looked at in general is even flawed and even limiting.

if your a necromancer with a sword you should not be considred a mage... youd be a hybrid necro.

Spirists are spiritists lmao they are not mages simply because they use spiritist magic.

Magic schools is a great concept but to be a true mage ecumenical should be your bread and butter and it should be solo viable in both pvp and pve And yah you should be able to 1v2 or even 1/3 if you are a skilled enough
...hell footies do it all the time.

Staff magic would fix alot of issues , it doesnt even hafto be its own school lmao just needs yo be a staff or wand that the dmg is based of intelligence.

All Defensive and healing spells should be somwhat affected by psych.

Being able to cast while moving should be revised imo and at least at a spell wich would give you like an arcane shield equiped on your arm while casting or somthing like damn. i wanna like and play this game so bad it hurts and i know alot of people feel the same way , i dont think i hafto say that this was a huge let down for 99% of the uo vets that heard henrik speak about it as though it meant somthing to him.

Ecumnical should be pure mage solo viable.

I agree with this. Right now magic is in a very bad position and you are not able to fight people with it UNLESS you have a melee weapon equipped and be able to parry/block hits. I mean why the hell do i have to wear a door and a dagger as a mage in this game? I want to cast spells and nothing more! Like I said there is one easy fix in my opinion: Let us cast all schools while moving and lets us hold a spell (like you can with ecumenical). And if you scale healing and defensive spells of psyche and damage spells of int you will be able to balance this pretty well!

Edit:
Spell Ideas: Let magic reflect scale of psyche and int and determine how much damage it will reflect. 100 psyche/int maybe 100% damage reflect or something.
Create another spell called physical reflect. Same like magic reflect but counts for physical damage. Why do we as mages always have to use a spurt and check if the enemy has such a shield up? Melees should face this as well!

 

[Raknor]

I mean, Henrik mentioned months ago (on stream) that ecumenical school was still missing a spell that was basically a physical damage shield. I have no idea why such a basic spell is taking months to develop while they implemented 2 whole magic schools since this was mentioned.

 

[Midas]

First Circle​

First level spells take 4 mana to cast

Spell Name	school it should go.
Clumsy	Ecumenical
Create Food	Ecumenical
Feeblemind	Ecumenical
Heal	Ecumenical
Magic Arrow	Ecumenical
Night Sight	Void
Reactive Armor	Ecumenical
Weaken	Ecumenical

Second Circle​

Second level spells take 6 mana to cast

Agility	Ecumenical
Cunning	Ecumenical
Cure	Ecumenical
Harm	Ecumenical /Necromany/MEntalist
Magic Trap	Void
Magic Untrap	Void
Protection	Ecumenical
Strength	Ecumenical

Third Circle​

Third level spells take 9 mana to cast

Bless	ecumenical
Fireball	ecumenical
Magic Lock	Void
Poison / give corrupt back to necro's	Ecumenical
Telekinesis	Mentalist
Teleport	Ecumenical
Unlock	Void
Wall of Stone	Elementalist

Fourth Circle​

Fourth level spells take 11 mana to cast

Arch Cure	Spiritist
Arch Protection	Spiritist
Curse	Necromancer
Fire Field	Elelentalist
Greater Heal	Ecumenical
Lightning	Ecumenical
Mana Drain	NEcromancy
Recall	Void

Fifth Circle​

Fifth level spells take 14 mana to cast

Blade Spirits	Ecumenical
Dispel Field	Void
Incognito	Ecumenical
Magic Reflection	Ecumenical
Mind Blast	Ecumenical / MEntalist
Paralyze	Void
Poison Field	ecumenical
Summon Creature	Void

Sixth Circle​

Sixth level spells take 20 mana to cast

Dispel	Void
Energy Bolt	Ecumenical
Explosion	Ecumenical
Invisibility	Illusion
Mark	Void
Mass Curse	Necro/Ecumenical
Paralyze Field	Void
Reveal	Ecumenical

Seventh Circle​

Seventh level spells take 40 mana to cast

Chain Lightning	Elementalism
Energy Field	ecumenical
Flamestrike	Ecumenical
Gate Travel	Void
Mana Vampire	Necro
Mass Dispel	Void
Meteor Swarm	Ecumenical
Polymorph	Ecumenical

Eighth Circle​

Eighth level spells take 50 mana to cast

Earthquake	Ecumenical
Energy Vortex	Ecumenical
Resurrection	Spiritist
Summon Air Elemental	elementalist
Summon Daemon	Necromancy
Summon Earth Elemental	Elementalist
Summon Fire Elemental	Elementalist
Summon Water Elemental	Elementalist

 

[Midas]

ACtual list with ingredients https://www.uoguide.com/Magery_Spells

 

[Hodo]

Dude what is wrong with you, seriously? I’ve mained as a mage since 2010 in MO1. Ive been in more pvp, wars and sieges thatn you can imagine. And let me tell you that you 700 hours of melee character is laughable.

There is no need to be condescending and talk down to me. All you are doing is showing your own ignorance and bigotry.

I simply understand why mages are kept in the state they are in by design. It works in group play and keeps the majority of population as melee( as SV envisions). Make individual mages stronger and thats all anyone will play. Of course in solo gameplay it makes mages very weak, as they should be. Magery is easy and low risk gameplay. This is a fact.

I understand that you want to be able to solo 4 people as a mage, but frankly that would be broken af.

As a person who has played over 9k hours in MO1 as both a Fatmage and a Melee I can say that both are different in MO2.

I have over 3k hours in MO2 as either a Hybrid, footfighter, mounted character or a mage (dex and fat). I can say that mages in MO2 feel better than MO1. But still have a lot of glaring issues as pointed out by Jasa in their well written brief.

I can right now hop on my footie / MC and blow through EVERY form of content in this game with minimal effort. Outside of acquiring gear which is the only issue you run into but even that is easy if you just spend a few hours afk macroing the crafting skills you need up to 70.

Like I can blow through every bandit camp, risar camp and dungeon solo as a footie. I cant even think about doing a risar dungeon solo as a mage without some kind of melee skill and weapon.

The other complaint I hear a lot is "Mounted mages are broken." Well again any mounted character can easily dictate the fight if the other party is on foot. I still feel the weakest in PVP is the MA, but the MA is the strongest in PVE, and the MC is the only one that is balanced across the board and MMs are strong in PVP but weak in PVE. But it balances out.

The issue runs into when every fight devolves into foot fights. The foot fat mage is just dead. They die to PVP easily, and they die to PVE just as easy. The reason is mobility. That thing that no one else has an issue with. No footie has to sacrifice the ability to move to do decent damage. A dex mage with no melee skills is doing roughly 70% of what a fat mage can do with 70% of the mana. A dagger mage is basically a hybrid so they are literally half of what a pure mage is in every way and rely far more on their initial burst damage and then the dagger to do real damage to finish the target. And every fight turns into a foot fight. So fat mages become nothing more than backline heal bots because their most powerful spells are VERY short ranged and slow. While their ranged spells are relatively weak compared to the longer ranged archery skills like longbow which easily hit for the same numbers through reptile and heavy carapace at 2 to 3 times the range of outburst. And dont say "but you have lead your target and magic is hit scan." LMFAO! Sorry but a longbow is the easiest weapon to use in MO2, it has a stupid flat arc, it is easy to lead because of the arrow velocity and it hits like a truck on anything with less than reptile on. You can easily 3 shot a mage with a 110str longbow.