Why Alvarins and MAs need to be nerfed SPECIFICALLY before Sarducca.

BongRips

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Before the Sarducca patch brings a wave of new players, Star Vault needs to address the Alvarin and Mounted Archer balance problem.


Right now, Alvarin isn't just strong, or a little bit OP, it's effectively the only competitive race choice for PvP. In a game with four races, seeing one race make up the overwhelming majority of ALL and especially serious PvP players (we are talking guilds like Wigsplit are literally all on Alvarins, though they also seem to cheat) is a huge red flag. Mortal Online 2 is heavily PvP-focused, and when 3 out of 4 races are viewed as significantly weaker, player choice becomes an illusion, horrible for MMOs or any game.


The same applies to Mounted Archers. MAs dominate open-world combat to a degree that makes Mounted Combat and many other playstyles feel obsolete, they are able to even nuke footies now. The issue is amplified because Alvarin is also one of 2 race choices for the build which is unsurprising, Alvarins are most popular at all builds (footie, mage, archer, hybrid, mounted)


Some players argue that balance doesn't matter because people will always meta-chase. That's true to a point. There is a massive difference between a healthy meta where the strongest option is 5-10% better and an unhealthy meta where one race and one build are so far ahead that they become mandatory. The first one is completely fine for game's health even especially if you shake the meta up often, the second option is literally death of a game or permanent low pop, bottlenecked by balance issues simply because non meta players in soft meta stay because it's dealable with, but in hard meta like Alvarins in MO2 they leave.


History has shown this repeatedly across MMORPGs and competitive games. When players discover that the class, race, or build they want to play is non-viable, many simply quit. Most players don't reroll and especially won't for a mixed review game with already bad rep. They won't waste hundreds of hours and some irl money rebuilding a character because balance was ignored. They WILL leave.


New player retention is often determined in the first few weeks. Imagine joining MO2 because you want to be a Thursar warrior, an Oghmir tank, or a Human hybrid, only to realize that nearly every successful PvP player is running Alvarin or Mounted Archer. It creates disappointment, tons of people, myself included have a high preference for a playstyle/race/aesthetics/class in MMORPGs and any games really, I personally would NEVER play an Alvarin, not out of spite but because it completely misaligns with my preferences.


Archery in general, which both overpowered builds are the best at already are also gonna be early game meta. They deal with even steel footies with defense trinkets and much larger HP pools already, imagine the same bow because it costs nothing, with 20% pierce cuprums that people will also be quick to get in incisium/reptile 170-225 health no pot characters meta. MAs in a desert with no TC, no buildings, no houses to hide in, pure domination as if what they do on Myrland isn't enough. Those 2 overpowered builds also happen to be the best early game PVP builds with no investment due to how bows work, we are talking about Sarducca wipe, everyone in bad gear no pots no concentration, Archers dominate, best archers? Alvarins by far.


The Sarducca launch is a rare opportunity to grow the game. But if new players enter a meta where one race dominates while multiple races struggle to justify their existence literally, many of those players won't stay long enough to see future content which includes potential nerf a month or two later that makes other races way more playable, but Timmy is onto another game already, one that respects bruiser, tank, fighter, battlemage archetype playstyles.


Balance isn't just about fairness, it's about retention, the most popular games tend to spam balance pathes. It's about making sure players feel their choices matter. If Star Vault wants Sarducca to succeed, bringing Alvarin and Mounted Archer closer to the rest of the game should be a priority before the influx of new players arrives or most of them will leave due to something preventable with a few number changes.


Henrik's stream is in 30-40 hours, please remind him of this. When PTR comes out, remind them of this issue again if you are with me, we need direct Alvarin and MA nerfs before or with Sarducca launch or the game will suffer massive losses of players who aren't gonna tolerate such inbalance.
Sard may bring some new players but lets be honest. No new player is going to max their characters out in their first few weeks. Last time MO had a huge surge of new players they were griefed out of the game by other players lol. It had nothing to do with balance.

I don't understand your suggestions. Thursars should not be able to catch an alvarin on foot. Alvarins max out at like 12-13 dmg bonus where thursars can have 30. Thursars have more HP. The only thing alvarins have is speed and matching stamina. What would you have SV do? Make them slow aka unplayable?
Balance is impossible for mmos. I have yet to see a game do it perfectly. SV has done a decent job at trying for it. MO1 was thur khur online. Now we have people rolling oghmirs for their dmg resistance, humans for hybrids because of their stats, alvarins for speed, and thursars for high dmg bonuses. You are blinded by the light pal.
 

Iloros

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Dec 14, 2023
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Sard may bring some new players but lets be honest. No new player is going to max their characters out in their first few weeks. Last time MO had a huge surge of new players they were griefed out of the game by other players lol. It had nothing to do with balance.

I don't understand your suggestions. Thursars should not be able to catch an alvarin on foot. Alvarins max out at like 12-13 dmg bonus where thursars can have 30. Thursars have more HP. The only thing alvarins have is speed and matching stamina. What would you have SV do? Make them slow aka unplayable?
Balance is impossible for mmos. I have yet to see a game do it perfectly. SV has done a decent job at trying for it. MO1 was thur khur online. Now we have people rolling oghmirs for their dmg resistance, humans for hybrids because of their stats, alvarins for speed, and thursars for high dmg bonuses. You are blinded by the light pal.
By the fact that you said Alvarins are 12 dmg bonus and that Thursars are 30 shows me you have not played the game for years.

It has to do with balance, yes tons of noobs will leave anyways BUT any potential player that would stay and is not on an Alvarin will NOT stay in the current meta because 3 out of 4 races are genuinely not pvp viable at all and their guildies will tell them that, they will read about that, all the build guides will tell you go Alvarin. All the pvp vids will also be Alvarin as they are right now.

Alvarins and MAs also grief orders of magnitude better than other build so if most current vets pick them they will grief noobs way harder than they would in an Oghmir meta or a balanced game.


The game is in its worst balance state ever. My arguments are clear as day, name me one game that made it with 1 race/class being more popular than the rest of them combined.

"Balance is impossible for MMOs im yet to see a game do it perfectly"

Duh no assymetrical game will ever be balanced perfectly by a human hand, but we want all classes to be reasonably playable, we want some balance, right now 3 out of 4 races are genuine RP.

You are a biased, clueless guy that didn't even play the game for years you don't get to just say what each class is supposed to do and then go "Alvarins are unnerfable evem tho they dominate"

Remove 2.5% passive speed buff, 30 flat stamina buff, turn their armor pierce clade that lets them do more damage than Thursars for 26 seconds into a healing reduction like 30%, turn their Alvarin sight into +2 raw psyche because it has no place in this game and just excuses cheaters and ruins immersion.

They are still the fastest most survivable class by far that deals with mages greatly BUT it's not OP to a point other races are obsolete.
 
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MortalEnjoyer42069

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There is literally no stackinh bonuses anymore.

All MAs are op not just Alvarins though Alvarin is the best choice. MA needs a nerf. Most mounted builds are MAs if not all.

All foot archers and other builds too are mostly Alvarins, Alvarin needs a nerf.

Most players are not bow users and especially do not have more than 100 points into it. Bows are NOT op they are average on 3 out of 4 races.
Why do you want MAs nerfed, and how? They are straight non factors in most fights after they kill a horse. This can even be argued is bested by anyone running EQ.
 

Iloros

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Why do you want MAs nerfed, and how? They are straight non factors in most fights after they kill a horse. This can even be argued is bested by anyone running EQ.
I don't wanna talk to someone who says MA is a non factor after they kill a horse. Tons of people are playing it therefore it needs a nerf MC and MM are nothing compared to it, and it does 25-30s through steel and then 75 weakspot s which more and more people are starting to land.

So no the class is absurd rn and on Sarducca? It will completely ruin it.

They did multiple changes and bug fixes that made archery do way more damage to players. MA dunks on any build 1v1 in the open EQ is a nonfactor unless you are for some reason standing next to buildings 24 7 AND thosr wont even exist in Sarducca.
 

MortalEnjoyer42069

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I don't wanna talk to someone who says MA is a non factor after they kill a horse. Tons of people are playing it therefore it needs a nerf MC and MM are nothing compared to it, and it does 25-30s through steel and then 75 weakspot s which more and more people are starting to land.

So no the class is absurd rn and on Sarducca? It will completely ruin it.

They did multiple changes and bug fixes that made archery do way more damage to players. MA dunks on any build 1v1 in the open EQ is a nonfactor unless you are for some reason standing next to buildings 24 7 AND thosr wont even exist in Sarducca.
EQ will 100% be in Sarducca. You think they are just gonna remove Bandits? Ive never been killed by an MA and never will be. I've played as a FF, mage, and a tribrid and MAs are a joke vs players. I also don't understand where you are getting these numbers. I run a 117 str asym with max mastery and 22% pierce. I hit steel targets for 15~20. The only way someone is getting a normal hit for 25-30 is with the armor bypass weapon ability, which again, guess what ELVES. All armor pen clades and abilities should be removed from the game. Weakspot is fine because you only have around a 50% proc chance and you're required to hit their head, which is hard for anyone not hacking.
 
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Iloros

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EQ will 100% be in Sarducca. You think they are just gonna remove Bandits? Ive never been killed by an MA and never will be. I've played as a FF, mage, and a tribrid and MAs are a joke vs players. I also don't understand where you are getting these numbers. I run a 117 str asym with max mastery and 22% pierce. I hit steel targets for 15~20. The only way someone is getting a normal hit for 25-30 is with the armor bypass weapon ability, which again, guess what ELVES. All armor pen clades and abilities should be removed from the game. Weakspot is fine because you only have around a 50% proc chance and you're required to hit their head, which is hard for anyone not hacking.
Oh so of COURSE you are an MA talking like this lmao. They kill people, keep defending your op build bro. They legit do 75 weakspots and 2 of them statcheck you in no time, best support build, destroys pets, best PVE by far in the open, and Sarducca will boost that 10 fold. I get those numbers from myself getting hit for bizzare amounts through steel I have 11% defense and alwyas wear draco husk, and I get hit for like 25s easy, which means it can get to 30s and that's every second and then you hit the head for 75. THe thing is op and has 0 counterplay, EQ is good but it's op aswell, you don't balance OP with OP counter, and MA's that are good dont even get EQed or die to EQ unless a guy also has a hammer and instantly gets to their pet, which again is forcing a super specific build. Everyone is playing it, theres entire guilds like Pergite Quadra revolving around it, legit 4-5 MAs and a few foot archers that just statcheck everyone to death instantly from range with 1000 speed. It's overplayed therefore OP, I don't wanna talk why. Ma to MC or MM playrate is like 100-1 literally, if even that.
Alvarins are worse, but Human MA or even thursar oghmir MA all in all are op, and would be overplayed and uncounterable without idk tons of buildings and EQ which litearlly does not exist in Sarducca, you will have to avoid entire giant areas because fuck you you aren't this one goofy build.
 

Locke

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MA and Dex Mages the most oppressive classes in the game that require serious nerfs.
 

Iloros

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MA and Dex Mages the most oppressive classes in the game that require serious nerfs.
Dex archer is even more opressive than dex mage to non Alvarins. Alvarins and MAd need direct nerfs. Not bow, not magic, not mount, that nerfs other builds too nerf Alvarins and nerf MAs Im scared that they nerf bows and magic for 85th time and call it a day lol. Thaz is worst case scenario.
 

MortalEnjoyer42069

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If MA is nerfed anymore there will be no reason to play it. It's already complete dog shit if you try killing any player with a brain. You dying to an MA in a 1v1 means you're dog shit.
 

Iloros

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If MA is nerfed anymore there will be no reason to play it. It's already complete dog shit if you try killing any player with a brain. You dying to an MA in a 1v1 means you're dog shit.
It's massively overplayed therefore op. if it on top of that killed top tier geared footies in 1v1s in Myrland where there's houses every 5 meters that'd be beyond op given the utility and zerging power of it, and Sarducca has none of that, what happens when an MA dismounts you middle of the desert which seems to be 70% of the fucking map? You die. You get zerged, if a guy can dismount you and keep you there he can alsso zerg you, you can't zerg him, that's the whole deal with Alvarins too, they zerg you bro, and you cant zerg them. It's not just about the 1v1, if ANYONE kills you in 1v1 other than foot archer you are ass, legit impossible to kill dudes 1v1 these days lmao. Diabolical game with too much healing, but that does not mean a 1000 speed 500 hp class with 30 dps and potential to burst for 75s isnt op, the outplay against them is to run into TC that wont be there on Sarducca, and they are already overplayed with all this TC, you'll see what happens if they dont nerf them, it's so annoying how everyones biased for their build, oh nerf Alvarins, but MAs are somehow fine? Yeah bro totally, litearlly same arguments can be used for the 2, they can't die and reset the fight till they win or they zerg you LOL while doing more than enough dmg to keep you busy and working so you can't just run straight to town with them on you. "Oh but every build beats you if htey zerg" no they dont, especially not those 2 builds thats like the whole thing
Ma can do great in 1vx and instawins xv1s, same with Alvarins, they an easisly run from 30 Thursars if needed but if 2 alvarins catch one thursar he dies, MA can easily run away too if your team arrives first, but if his companion arrives first, you die. On top of again, doing too much dmg on their own im sorry 75 weakspot isnt fair at all and then 25-30s through steel even without it, I'm sorry killing all pets from range with no counterplay in 15 seconds and making large pets literally never used even tho they are fine in most matchups isn't fair. I'm sorry EQ being the only real way to beat you unless you go "im so cocky and I get away with so much bullshit ill go in mauls melee range" isn't fair either. Oh but nerf EQ please so we can't die?


You are literally the same as Alvarins lmao. Nerf pets coz sometimes I can die to them and them only, nerf EQ coz sometimes I die to it and it only. so lame
You are even using the same "if you nerf the meven a little bit noone will play it' MEANWHILE ITS PLAYED LIKE 100x MORE THAN PURE MC OR PURE MM???? LMAO yeah same shit as alvarins bro "nerf 2.5% speed and noone will ever play them" meanwhile they are more played than all the other races combined like 2x.


And in the open which will be 90% of sarducca they will beat everyone period 100 out of 100 times they have no lose con unless they get EQed there is no ranged burst dmg so when your pet gets to 30% you just reset, and c ome back and then get lucky with weakspots coz yes noone can outtrade youfrom range even if you hit just 2 weakspots let alone if you land all 3-5 depending on the persons hp, oh they potted good you just reset and kill them, or call your zerg if you are so ass at aiming, they got no chance.


Heres the reality, if I get dismoutned by an MA from OS or Smoking snakes or evolve or whatever zerg and im not right next to town, I will die 100 out of 100 times if they deem I have something worthy, same is true with Alvarins, same isnt true with any other race or class in the game, MC or MM i can ignore and reposition or dismount if they try anything, oghmir human thursar I can kill before help arrives and run away and log out or whatever, MA and Alvarin I cannot ignore, do tons of dmg can't ever hope to kill, and they can RUN AWAY if my help arrives first somehow.
But yeah i dont even like talking mechanics all I gotta say is look at playrate, its 1000x more played than pure MC or MM are MC and MM that weak that the yare infinitely less appealing? I dont think so and its nto just meduli legit wherever I go a guy has MA, coz its strong asf, its just 100 points to just spam 30 dps from a mount and then hit a guy 75 if you hit the head lmao. Bullshit AND THATAS THROUGH STEEL, through weaker tier armors it's completley unreasonable, you just flop to them 0 coutnerplay if you are in like reptile god forbid you wear repile in this garabge meta. I saw archers 4 shot thursars in reptile not even head shots just pure armor pierce torso 4 shots guy gone.
 
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MortalEnjoyer42069

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im not reading all the shit ilioros. play an MA, the build is not easy. arrows fly at nerf gun speeds, have a single pixel of a hitbox, and must land on targets with no momentum system. i realize you dont know how move correctly because you are so slow and so big, but all you have to do is 180 and the archer misses.
 

Iloros

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im not reading all the shit ilioros. play an MA, the build is not easy. arrows fly at nerf gun speeds, have a single pixel of a hitbox, and must land on targets with no momentum system. i realize you dont know how move correctly because you are so slow and so big, but all you have to do is 180 and the archer misses.
Bro its not evem about me I dont die to them either. Quit coping your build is OP and overplayed. If you cant read dont respond. You are word for word argument for argument repeating what Alvarin apologists say. "Its not that easy you should play it" well everyone does play it so whats more likely, everyone left is a masochist ans joining a zerg of MAs is hell on earth or maybe MA and Alvarin are the only playable builds so people do those. You do rralize nothing but those 2 builds is even playable anymore bro? This isnt evem about easy or hard the builds arent even playable.

Thursar Human Oghmir and MM MC are all jokes. Alvarin and MA the only builds that even play.
 
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Teknique

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One thing that is definitely true is that the mounted class balancing is a 0/10. Major surprise for this genius game designer.

Mc is supposed to counter ma and be more than a one trick pony all or nothing with the lance.
 
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Iloros

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One thing that is definitely true is that the mounted class balancing is a 0/10. Major surprise for this genius game designer.

Mc is supposed to counter ma and be more than a one trick pony all or nothing with the lance.
Its so ass I tried it and it helps with nothing EQ is leagues better and even for chasing horse is fucking 2 shot to meele weapons and animations of dismount and mount take too long. No dps eother I full charge into a guy he doesnt parry I hit him 35 and then parries me every other guy vs MA judt spamming steel for 25 30s and then doing 75s when they hit head lol.

Nerf the MA and Alvarins fame is unplayable for anything else.
 
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Smoldor

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They should get rid of the passives or make 100 dex the floor for other stout races instead of 90 (stout 23 oghmir with mastery/clade) which would walk up to 117 on a stout full khurite which would still be vastly inferior to 120 alvarin because combat jump is absolutely busted for how the blink charge system works in this game. This would allow other races to actually utilize quicken instead of it being purely an alvarin tool for escaping/killing other alvarins.

I switched from human to an alvarin mid-fight the other day after being harassed for multiple hours by two dex mages who stalemated 6 non-alvarins, and despite having only 90 dex, the passives, quicken, combat jump, fall damage reduc and speed clades made them a non-issue...again, with 90/120 dex.

The mounted problem I always felt like was an easy fix, but all characters should have mounted viability out of the box, and the difference between a wheelchair and a mount should be significantly tightened. It should be the difference between having an aggressive stance and a defensive stance at most--still a significant advantage--but not double the damage, lol.
 
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Iloros

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They should get rid of the passives or make 100 dex the floor for other stout races instead of 90 (stout 23 oghmir with mastery/clade) which would walk up to 117 on a stout full khurite which would still be vastly inferior to 120 alvarin because combat jump is absolutely busted for how the blink charge system works in this game. This would allow other races to actually utilize quicken instead of it being purely an alvarin tool for escaping/killing other alvarins.

I switched from human to an alvarin mid-fight the other day after being harassed for multiple hours by two dex mages who stalemated 6 non-alvarins, and despite having only 90 dex, the passives, quicken, combat jump, fall damage reduc and speed clades made them a non-issue...again, with 90/120 dex.

The mounted problem I always felt like was an easy fix, but all characters should have mounted viability out of the box, and the difference between a wheelchair and a mount should be significantly tightened. It should be the difference between having an aggressive stance and a defensive stance at most--still a significant advantage--but not double the damage, lol.
Yeah I heard that story. 2 dex mages were harassing a group of non Alvarins and winning and then you rerolled and flopped them. Alvarin's game other races are useless.
 

Smoldor

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Yeah I heard that story. 2 dex mages were harassing a group of non Alvarins and winning and then you rerolled and flopped them. Alvarin's game other races are useless.
I've been repeating it here and there, but it just so glaringly highlights the power of runners' high, warcry, quicken at 429 speed (90 dex elf with passives speed), fall damage reduc, aggro range, alv eyes, combat leap being more enough to get the job done even against characters moving 450-500.

Every build I make for sard would be better an alvarin, even for pve QoL clades alone lol...
 
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Iloros

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I've been repeating it here and there, but it just so glaringly highlights the power of runners' high, warcry, quicken at 429 speed (90 dex elf with passives speed), fall damage reduc, aggro range, alv eyes, combat leap being more enough to get the job done even against characters moving 450-500.

Every build I make for sard would be better an alvarin, even for pve QoL clades alone lol...
I remember my buddy bufed my Thursar and I went from 420 speed to like 472??? I think it was 472 with one buff LOL