What the point of MO2 "reputation" system?

Hodo

Well-known member
Mar 7, 2022
1,067
941
113
We do plenty of slaughter roams and I still have 75/75 Khurite Standing. Just take a parcel every time you cross a town.
But I think it heavily depends on the area. In Tindrem sewers it's way easier to gain a load of MC's / prominence loss compared to roaming the area around Khurite towns or the Ant Highway.

IMHO the parcel system has no impact on my PK lifestyle. Expect maybe that I decided to go for a mounted/Footfighter character instead of on a pure footfighter, which makes me actually more deadly to casuals transporting stuff on their mount.

Goes back to what I have said for a while now. The current flagging system is flat out bad, I dont care how you cut it, its bad.

They would have been better off getting rid of all flags and just having everyone grey outside of town and just turned it into a free for all outside of guard range.

I would rather they go back to the MO1 system, just make it regional. If you have 5 murder counts in the Tindrimic Empire you are red there. If you have 0 murder counts in the Khurite Tribes you are still blue. Pretty simple, no parcels needed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Najwalaylah

Jatix

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
882
767
93
Does SV ant to annoy players out of PKing (and game) with meaningless, annoying tasks?
Yes, I just said "no I'm not doing that shit", and will continue to bitch on the forums until we get a better system lmao. Parcel running was never intended to be fun. Its just a time sink to waste peoples time if they want to pvp and be able to use towns (which are required to play the game really, until we get TC so people can build their own towns).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tzone

Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
3,046
967
113
We do plenty of slaughter roams and I still have 75/75 Khurite Standing. Just take a parcel every time you cross a town.
But I think it heavily depends on the area. In Tindrem sewers it's way easier to gain a load of MC's / prominence loss compared to roaming the area around Khurite towns or the Ant Highway.

IMHO the parcel system has no impact on my PK lifestyle. Expect maybe that I decided to go for a mounted/Footfighter character instead of on a pure footfighter, which makes me actually more deadly to casuals transporting stuff on their mount.


pop is also super low to be fair, tho. Was gonna cosign, but that's something to add in, that there aren't big numbers in those places, as often, so like you said, sewers (which I never understood as a pvp hotspot lol) is gonna bleed you out where as you are just riding around like duck duck goose in S.

But the 50 clade is not bad, LIKE I KNEW WHEN I SUGGESTED IT, so yea sometimes I'll just do a loop run. Tin-->fab might not be safe but it's fast. Bakti to Mohki is pretty safe but not TOO fast, but still easy to chill it out. I haven't farmed any tin rep since beta lol.
 

Kaquenqos

Active member
May 3, 2022
157
129
43
They need to:
1) Consider if this is actually the flag system they want, and if it is, consider if they actually want blue status to be meaningless & that 'local grey' & criminal flags should work how it does currently
2) Flesh out reputation and Murder Count mechanics so that they feel less arbitrary and shallow
or
3) If it looks like too much of an undertaking, cut their losses & scrap the current MC & Rep system and go back to the drawing board with something more simplistic

Whatever they do, the goal should be that being blue actually means something and that players who want to be outlaws/murderers are not punished with tedium. Core infrastructure like brokers and priests should be just as available to reds, for example, and likewise blues shouldn't be able to just murder blues at will while running parcels.

The takeaway here is: atm the game condones killing blue-flags while remaining blue & running parcels. This encourages blue on blue grief &, since you can get away with it with no drawbacks, makes playing an actual outlaw less appealing (why would you want to? The game allows you to have your cake & eat it too with the current 'blue flag'). Basically, people who kill blues repeatedly should be outlaws (whether or not they try to game the system)...This isn't a problem as long as you don't punish outlaws so much. The punishment should only be that you now have no safe-zone.

The benefit of being blue should be that people know you are lawful(ie. won't kill blues), and you have access to safe-zones (blue towns)-- the drawback is that you can't kill literally anyone you want with impunity (as you can currently).

The benefit of being a 'red' outlaw should be that you can kill whomever you choose-- the drawback should be that you've decided, through your actions, that you don't need safe-zones.

That's a sensible trade-off compared to what we have now. It allows for some degree of delineation of people who don't want to be hardcore RPKers vs. those who do. It allows for a lawful playstyle. It does both of these things while also making the outlaw playstyle more appealing (no tedious punishments). But most importantly, it gets rid of the blue 'delivery-boy serial-killer' meta. You can't have both. If you want safe-zones, you can't use your blue-flag to get the jump on other blues. If you want to kill with impunity, you don't get to have safe-zones. I suspect more people would just choose to become outlaws, but so be it. It's a trade-off worth having. It would get rid of the 'turtle-in-town' syndrome, while also allowing new people, or 'PvE' people, to have some degree of safety learning the ropes. It would also create emergent ARPK, since now that would be the main venue to PvP for blues.
 
Last edited:

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
They need to:
1) Consider if this is actually the flag system they want, and if it is, consider if they actually want blue status to be meaningless & that 'local grey' & criminal flags should work how it does currently
2) Flesh out reputation and Murder Count mechanics so that they feel less arbitrary and shallow
or
3) If it looks like too much of an undertaking, cut their losses & scrap the current MC & Rep system and go back to the drawing board with something more simplistic

Whatever they do, the goal should be that being blue actually means something and that players who want to be outlaws/murderers are not punished with tedium. Core infrastructure like brokers and priests should be just as available to reds, for example, and likewise blues shouldn't be able to just murder blues at will while running parcels.

The takeaway here is: atm the game condones killing blue-flags while remaining blue & running parcels. The affect is basically one that encourages blue on blue grief &, since you can get away with it with no drawbacks, makes playing an actual outlaw less appealing (why would you want to? The game allows you to have your cake & eat it too with the current 'blue flag'). Basically, people who kill blues repeatedly should be outlaws (whether or not they try to game the system)... Just don't punish outlaws so much.

The benefit of being blue should be that people know you are lawful(ie. won't kill blues), and you have access to safe-zones (blue towns)-- the drawback is that you can't kill literally anyone you want with impunity (as you can currently).

The benefit of being a 'red' outlaw should be that you can kill whomever you choose-- the drawback should be that you can't access blues when they are in safe areas(blue-towns), and literally everybody can kill you anywhere with impunity (you have no safe zones).

That's a sensible trade-off compared to what we have now. It allows for some degree of delineation of people who don't want to be hardcore RPKers vs. those who do. It allows for a lawful playstyle. It does both of these things while also making the outlaw playstyle more appealing (no tedious punishments). But most importantly, it gets rid of the blue 'delivery-boy serial-killer' meta. You can't have both. If you want safe-zones, you can't use your blue-flag to get the jump on other blues. If you want to kill with impunity, you don't get to have safe-zones. I suspect more people would just choose to become outlaws, but so be it. It's a trade-off worth having. It would get rid of the 'turtle-in-town' syndrome, while also allowing new people, or 'PvE' people, to have some degree of safety learning the ropes. It would also create emergent ARPK, since now that would be the main venue to PvP for blues.

Theres not that many alternatives. Its either keep the game being garbo or change the placeholder features, and yes law system is a placeholder poop and i bet nobody even went to the drawing board for that, shits more like a napkin scribble at best.

Systems are clumsy, negligent poorly thought and delivered its hard to be empathic with SV when everything they deliver is half made placeholder content.
Lets be honests here more than half the systems ingame are shitty incomplete copies from the previous game.

The true question is how to reinforce the core concepts of the game. Not hardbrake mechanics for non consensual pvp. The law is more than giving a blue the status of blue and murderer a status of murderer, its the socio-politic configuration of the game. Problem is considering crime" as an unintended part of the game while its not, or at least not everywhere".

Right now Mortal is the promise of a "niche" mmorpg, because they don't deliver. Crafting is not niche, its placeholder, pve is not niche its placeholder braindead content, law is not law its placeholder, bounties, trinckets, housing, PVP is not niche its GARBO, you name it.

All incomplete systems that are almost" good but they keep going forward with more placeholder content and take months to fix elemental content problematics with small bandaids.

A true challenge for SV would be to re-design their systems going to the basics, the core of the game and deliver packages or modules of content that make sense its organic and intertwined and generate organic player interaction. Not isolated half baked systems that have nothing to do with anything.

The strongest problem with SV right now is the lack of direction, i don't understand if Henrique is really permeable to stupid opinions about the game or hes really out of touch and don't know anything about games.

How can you expect them to deliver anything good if theres those problematics with every piece of content they deliver. Now we gotta see whats the criteria for "bug and game polishing" thats supposed to come after necro patch, in MO1 that was sinonimous of "we worked hard on last placeholder patch, now we go dormant for months and deliver nothing, bye".
And i wouldn't be even mentioning things from mo1, they took the worst of MO1. One would think after so long they would be more capable which leads me to think sloppy development is actually intentional.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Kaquenqos

Kaquenqos

Active member
May 3, 2022
157
129
43
Yeah, I mean, I'd go a step further and say the PvP mechanics are one of the most important features in the game. It affects literally everyone. It's the groundworks for how people will play. It can make or break the 'end-game' gameplay loop.

Currently, I agree, rep is definitely placeholder, and needs attention fast. The sandbox mechanics like those surrounding PvP are the types of mechanics that will be the difference between retaining players and not. If you bring in 2000 players and the end-game loop feels bad because none of the sandbox mechanics(such as those surrounding PvP) are fleshed out, you will lose 1900~ of those players in a month or two.

After actually implementing the base of the game (clades, skills, etc.) & fixing bugs, the sandbox mechanics of the game are the areas that desperately need 'mega patches'. Which I think is part of the reason a lot of people felt lukewarm to the latest patch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Albanjo Dravae

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
Yeah, I mean, I'd go a step further and say the PvP mechanics are one of the most important features in the game. It affects literally everyone. It's the groundworks for how people will play. It can make or break the 'end-game' gameplay loop.

Currently, I agree, rep is definitely placeholder, and needs attention fast. The sandbox mechanics like those surrounding PvP are the types of mechanics that will be the difference between retaining players and not. If you bring in 2000 players and the end-game loop feels bad because none of the sandbox mechanics(such as those surrounding PvP) are fleshed out, you will lose 1900~ of those players in a month or two.

After actually implementing the base of the game (clades, skills, etc.) & fixing bugs, the sandbox mechanics of the game are the areas that desperately need 'mega patches'. Which I think is part of the reason a lot of people felt lukewarm to the latest patch.

Of course, pvp is not for all" in the sense theres a lot of gamestyles that don't go looking for pvp conflict, at least not all the time. Understanding the actual pvp element is the only thing making other mechanics have sense, flow and articulate around it is essential to build and reinforce that concept.

Which is precisely why so many people have been quitting since all the mayor punitive changes that SV pulled since launch. Gameplay nerfs, hardbrakes no quality of life, taking months to address those problematics is insulting to the community. Yeah its insulting SV releases such crap shit tier patches.

But you are right, theres no actual need of a "endgame" gameplay loop when the basic gameplay loop is trash. The core is failing and its not only the law system, its most of the content thats ingame. Like trinckets for example which defeats several of the core or fundational concepts of the game.

Whats allways been cool about mortal is the whole idea of the game, not the mainstream content and gameplay. And ill never understand why so many teenager shitters keep asking for mainstream type of content.

The retaining problem comes from a lot of issues with the game, but i'd say the most important one is this concept that patches have, they are introduced in the form of isolated half made systems that don't interact or correlate with the already ingame meaningfull" mechanics. For example, delivering new content that does not vinculate the new content with crafting classes will veer the attetion to another spectrum of activities presented, when those activities are in fact shallow and have no depth except time sinkage will make players exhaust content in a week and thats the development loophole.

Its sad to say, but i think SV is going nowhere, theres no direction and they seem completly adrift. I have no faith whatsoever they will change anything for the better. I see them repeating the same shady and stupid things from MO1 any normal person learns from their mistakes. Which leads me to think this game is just a moneygrab scam.
 

Emdash

Well-known member
Sep 22, 2021
3,046
967
113
lol pvp is for all, killing people is not. Dying in MO never upset me, but I did get like o ok fuck you then, but now I'm not even like that. I have reached the stage of growth where I can enjoy MO.

I * love * fair fights even if you absolutely dunk me. A lot of the 'annoying' part of pvp is people getting zerged, but again, it's just an instant death roll mechanic. You can always join a guild with a bunch of NGAs so you never die, but you'll probably spend most of your life mining or some other such boring-ness.

I *want* to interact with people. In MO you can see which way people are looking. Sure, it's glitchy for fights, but there is so much immersion by being able to read BODY LANGUAGE of someone on a video game. I want that.

It's almost an impossible to answer question: why is pvp necessary... and I guess all I can say is, "It just is." It's one of the tools. Building, pvp, and TERRAFORMING are the main sandbox tools. I don't think MO should ever try terraforming, tho! But I would like TC ramps/stairs that we can put on mountains.

And people who worry about dudes jumping into their palisade, well if you let someone build a way into your shit, you got punk'd. Sandbox.
 

Kaquenqos

Active member
May 3, 2022
157
129
43
I agree that PKing is an integral part of the game, and I think most would agree there.

I think the biggest problem many people have isn't that the game has murder, but rather that, like this thread points out, the current system doesn't feel 'just' or 'fair' in a very basic way.

The problem a lot of people have with MO2's PK system isn't that you can kill blue flags, but that you can do so while maintaining a blue-flag yourself, and, provided you watch timers & run deliveries, continue to maintain that blue-flag in perpetuity. If you've done so, all you need to do is wait out a short timer and it's like nothing ever happened.

The game encourages you to murder blue-flagged people, who may even have their criminal actions toggled off, and throw that first swing while you yourself are still blue-flagged. Worse, it makes no distinction between someone who has done what I just described 1000000000 times while watching timers & doing deliveries, and someone who hasn't even done so once. That leaves a very sour taste, and it's not a mystery to me why no other MMO has used this system.

I think this is where a lot of the hatred for MO2's PK system comes from. It's not that there's murder, but that the 'law' system seems willfully unjust. At least no 'law' is still impartial to some extent. MO2's law system can feel like it's primarily there just to troll you.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Albanjo Dravae

Albanjo Dravae

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2021
1,082
569
113
I agree that PKing is an integral part of the game, and I think most would agree there.

I think the biggest problem many people have isn't that the game has murder, but rather that, like this thread points out, the current system doesn't feel 'just' or 'fair' in a very basic way.

The problem a lot of people have with MO2's PK system isn't that you can kill blue flags, but that you can do so while maintaining a blue-flag yourself, and, provided you watch timers & run deliveries, continue to maintain that blue-flag in perpetuity. If you've done so, all you need to do is wait out a short timer and it's like nothing ever happened.

The game encourages you to murder blue-flagged people, who may even have their criminal actions toggled off, and throw that first swing while you yourself are still blue-flagged. Worse, it makes no distinction between someone who has done what I just described 1000000000 times while watching timers & doing deliveries, and someone who hasn't even done so once. That leaves a very sour taste, and it's not a mystery to me why no other MMO has used this system.

I think this is where a lot of the hatred for MO2's PK system comes from. It's not that there's murder, but that the 'law' system seems willfully unjust. At least no 'law' is still impartial to some extent. MO2's law system can feel like it's primarily there just to troll you.
The "justice" concept of the game is deceiving. It's an illusion of punishment, a false advertisement.

And how is it makes in conjunction of mechanics and bugs-exploits a terrible experience for the victim perspective.

The question is, how is law handed over and in which contexts.

For example the biggest fail is ress to report thing, people instead of playing they just give up to "punish" expecting that punishment would avenge their loss. This justice" idea is garbage and it encourages a shitty resentfull gameplay, because nothing will ever be enough punishment.

Then theres this idea players have that the law and punitive systems should" punish proportionally to the loss as possible, thinking law should be developed in those parameters is idiotic to say the least.

Law shouldn't make the game unplayable for murderers, that concept comes from another era of gaming and it shouldn't apply to mortal.

This is why i suggested a justice system thats whitness based. Making pvp around towns more punishing due to the reporting capacity. Where towns are clusters of people it would be easier for múltiple people to whitness a crime.
Its straight forward, if you don't want to be reported gotta kill the whitnesses and/or move away from town. And for the victim it would require an actual gameplay to report criminals and not just die to report.

The actual punishment for a reported crime should be somewhat punishing, and could be balanced. But under no circunstances the game should have wilderness pvp hardbrakes, pvp consensual or not is a essential part of the game and it's competitive nature. Tired of the people that asks for "arena" type of features so all the filthy murderers" stop killing noobs in the wilderness.

On the contrary, pvp should be less punitive and law should develop best closest to towns.

Wilderness gameplay has to be encouraged and thats why i also think semi-afk town farming is a no-go.

This is what i ment with placeholder content and lack of direction, contradictory and antagonized features that go against the game design, because theres no criteria or conciousness of the creation of this world, what i see is just a piling up of shitty content and features. And thats why game was actually better pre-launch, less felt like more.
 
Last edited: