Veela's, Bows, & Strength Requirement

[Dakgorim]

Veela's have two clade gifts which lower the strength requirement of bows. The most strength I have found I was able to get on a Veela was an age 30-38 and that gave me about 89-90 str as stout. The clade gifts only give 20 points when put together; which makes it 109-110. I am not sure of your intention Starvault, for giving these clade gifts; but I am assuming you are trying to make them either foot archers or another form of a mounted archer. In my opinion this bonus by the clade gifts doesn't give enough to make that happen. If it is your intention to do so, I would recommend making them able to use at least 121 strength bows so they are at least on par with a thursar kallard's bow.

Perhaps maybe you can make a clade gift for Veela's to make it based on their dexterity instead of str. And change the other to reduce stam drain of bows maybe. So perhaps they can have the best bows in the game but be really squishy as lean. Anyway, nevertheless I do feel its a bit weak and needs a buff. I'll let you all decide how much and how it happens. Anyone else who has suggestions feel free to add.

 

[nazgo]

with 110str they get to the same level as majority of human builds, wether its enough or not remains to be seen

I personally hope to see rework of the current bow and archery systems. Many features from mo1 are missing and pretty much all archery related skills are missing.

 

[Neftan]

I don't understand people's desperate need for everything to be minmax'd. Just because there is a race in the game capable of 121 bows does not suddenly make every other race with lower strength, horrible archers.

Just accept that there is a variance and that different races offer different things.

 

[nazgo]

I don't understand people's desperate need for everything to be minmax'd. Just because there is a race in the game capable of 121 bows does not suddenly make every other race with lower strength, horrible archers.

Just accept that there is a variance and that different races offer different things.

but min-maxin means everything in a game like this

get a wrong race for magery, and suddenly you cant hit the critical threshold in which int increases your dmg
get a wrong race for a hybrid, and suddenly you cant get enough attributes to spread them evenly for hp/stam/mana

if there is a race that get 121 bows and out manouvers veelas in other fields too, then that race if an obvious choice. Now if veelas offer something else to cover the missing str, then its something one needs to consider when making a decision.

There is a reason why there was only couple builds in mo1, and no one used majority of the races.

 

[Rhias]

Veela got more Dex and should therefore have a higher weakspot chance. So for them shortbows are the way to go. And for shortbows 109 str is sufficient.

 

[bbihah]

Veela got more Dex and should therefore have a higher weakspot chance. So for them shortbows are the way to go. And for shortbows 109 str is sufficient.

I think the highest strength requirement you can even get on a shortbow is 105 str. At 110 str you can use decent longbows.

Any bow above 80 str or so give roughly 1 damage per str. With some outliers due to material shifting.

 

[oykd]

yee make veelas 121 str 120dex build please

 

[Xunila]

I'm running a Veela with 82 strength +5 strength from stout + 2 times 10 strength from clade gifts. This allows me to use long bows for 107 strength and is fine. There is no need max everything. But with both clade gifts Veela can be used to play an archer! This was impossible in MO1.

 

[Dakgorim]

Imo the damage difference is too big between a 121/123 str bow and a 109. Test it. The veelas don't have the speed in mo2 to kite so they end up having to spec into a melee weapon anyway. Weakspot chance is only headshots with a bow. The amount of dex they have seems to be quite irrelevant unless your relying on melee weakspots. At the moment bows are going to hit hard because everyone is in bonetissue and leather. Once people start wearing steel you will see a significant drop in damage.

If your supposed to be going for a foot archer then why is a thur kall or ogmir hitting you for over 2x the damage? Doesn't make sense to me unless they have some amazing ideas with the new bows/arrow thing they've been talking about. The clade gift idea is nice, but if I want to do damage with a bow I wouldn't roll a veela or sheevra right now. Who knows maybe ppl will begin to notice it once everyone's in steel and they are hitting for like 15-20 damage with a 109 bow

 

[bbihah]

Imo the damage difference is too big between a 121/123 str bow and a 109. Test it. The veelas don't have the speed in mo2 to kite so they end up having to spec into a melee weapon anyway. Weakspot chance is only headshots with a bow. The amount of dex they have seems to be quite irrelevant unless your relying on melee weakspots. At the moment bows are going to hit hard because everyone is in bonetissue and leather. Once people start wearing steel you will see a significant drop in damage.

If your supposed to be going for a foot archer then why is a thur kall or ogmir hitting you for over 2x the damage? Doesn't make sense to me unless they have some amazing ideas with the new bows/arrow thing they've been talking about. The clade gift idea is nice, but if I want to do damage with a bow I wouldn't roll a veela or sheevra right now. Who knows maybe ppl will begin to notice it once everyone's in steel and they are hitting for like 15-20 damage with a 109 bow

Tested extensively since bow crafting was in. The system is almost exactly the same as mo1, to the tiniest minute detail.

The only time damage non linearly goes up is when you hit certain thresholds where you either HAVE to switch material or where it is outright beneficial to do so. These look different depending on if its a longbow or shortbow, and for the future asymmetrical bows.

Main milestones for strength for longbow is when you reach 80(crepite) or 85~(D crepite)[Anything with less than 50% slider for longbow to a material bleeding over into the back material is a detriment even if you decide to sacrifice a lot of durability] and you get a nice bump from the much improved tensile strength. The back material impact is usually very minor for longbows(most common used outlier is firmwood which is good performance versus durability-wise for most bows in the str ranges between 80-121). The major difference when crafting is you can get more belly material with a less dense material vs a higher dense material to give you more from the good tensile strength values, the main cost here is durability. Once you hit those milestones though, the strength requirement increase linearly with how much range and how much damage you get. Anything that you find that breaks this mold is "broken" bows that are not supposed to exist in the way they end up. Say... Do a recurve long bow with C/C (can't do DC/DC atm) and slider to 95% and you get like a what? 200 strength bow? For some time it drained about as much stam as you using a bow just slightly above your strength. Which from my understanding has since long been fixed. But there are similar bows that are "broken".


The damage difference between a DC/Firmwood bow with the slider for 107str and 121 str is about 14, round it up to 15. That number seems familiar.... Where is the correlation? hmmm.... Could it be an almost linear scale of str requirement increasing by 14 and range increasing by an almost same amount? Say it ain't so.

 

[nazgo]

Imo the damage difference is too big between a 121/123 str bow and a 109. Test it. The veelas don't have the speed in mo2 to kite so they end up having to spec into a melee weapon anyway. Weakspot chance is only headshots with a bow. The amount of dex they have seems to be quite irrelevant unless your relying on melee weakspots. At the moment bows are going to hit hard because everyone is in bonetissue and leather. Once people start wearing steel you will see a significant drop in damage.

If your supposed to be going for a foot archer then why is a thur kall or ogmir hitting you for over 2x the damage? Doesn't make sense to me unless they have some amazing ideas with the new bows/arrow thing they've been talking about. The clade gift idea is nice, but if I want to do damage with a bow I wouldn't roll a veela or sheevra right now. Who knows maybe ppl will begin to notice it once everyone's in steel and they are hitting for like 15-20 damage with a 109 bow

yea I agree with the speed thing, the nerf to speed is ridiculous. Sure, it balanced out the races, now people can choose any race and speed wont be a problem and thats a really good thing! But at the same time they fucked up alvarins so badly. Make a veela and you sacrifice hp, stam, mana, magic dmg and physical dmg to gain like few% faster speed. I still think the 110str is enough for veelas, but SV needs to give us something else too. As right now getting that high dex is just not worth it.

 

[Rhias]

yea I agree with the speed thing, the nerf to speed is ridiculous. Sure, it balanced out the races, now people can choose any race and speed wont be a problem and thats a really good thing! But at the same time they fucked up alvarins so badly. Make a veela and you sacrifice hp, stam, mana, magic dmg and physical dmg to gain like few% faster speed. I still think the 110str is enough for veelas, but SV needs to give us something else too. As right now getting that high dex is just not worth it.

Yeah, and also those stamina regenerations. What a shame that it is only the character with the highest speed and stamina regeneration. Totally useless and there is absolutely no reason to play them.

 

[nazgo]

Yeah, and also those stamina regenerations. What a shame that it is only the character with the highest speed and stamina regeneration. Totally useless and there is absolutely no reason to play them.

highest stam regen but lowest stam amongst the meta builds
speed is fastest, but not enough to break a stickyback

so yeah, no reason to really play with them. I do love the combat jumping tho

 

[Komodor]

I believe most footarchers will switch to veelas once marksmanship is added. Heavy shortbows on high dex toons might be gamebreaking

 

[Rhias]

highest stam regen but lowest stam amongst the meta builds
speed is fastest, but not enough to break a stickyback

so yeah, no reason to really play with them. I do love the combat jumping tho

They got 350 stamina. That's about the same as a human Tindremene hybrid build.

 

[Jatix]

Ya ogh are best archers until you need to move, then your a free sticky. And currently horses are fodder so expecting to be mounted 24/7 is very unlikely. Maybe veela cant dust every other build but they are still overall faster. If the veela runs in advance the ogh can never catch up. If the ogh runs in advance the veela can catch up eventually and sticky.

 

[bbihah]

Eh Oghmir with 87 dex is only like 4% slower than 121 dex veela.


So more like what? 2% against the 100~ dex fighters?

 

[Kebek]

Veela's have two clade gifts which lower the strength requirement of bows. The most strength I have found I was able to get on a Veela was an age 30-38 and that gave me about 89-90 str as stout. The clade gifts only give 20 points when put together; which makes it 109-110. I am not sure of your intention Starvault, for giving these clade gifts; but I am assuming you are trying to make them either foot archers or another form of a mounted archer. In my opinion this bonus by the clade gifts doesn't give enough to make that happen. If it is your intention to do so, I would recommend making them able to use at least 121 strength bows so they are at least on par with a thursar kallard's bow.

Perhaps maybe you can make a clade gift for Veela's to make it based on their dexterity instead of str. And change the other to reduce stam drain of bows maybe. So perhaps they can have the best bows in the game but be really squishy as lean. Anyway, nevertheless I do feel its a bit weak and needs a buff. I'll let you all decide how much and how it happens. Anyone else who has suggestions feel free to add.

You will not be rocking 121 longbows on horseback, champ. Try the difference in damage between 110 and 121 asymmetric bows. It's negligible.

Basing bow draw weight on dex makes no sense when you look at reality.

 

[bbihah]

Dex could play into very slightly increasing the draw speed as well as having a bigger impact on what is currently a standardized time to pull out another arrow from the quiver. This would have a noticeable effect on the archers dps/dpm, while still situational increase, as its not always when you can just shoot shoot shoot.

 

[Rhias]

I did yesterday some fighting (with my recently rerolled character) and was suprised by how good I'm able to kite with my Veela. But I'm not quite sure where this good kiting capabilities come from.

If I got a character that moves 5% faster, will it use the same amount of stamina per meter as a slower character? Or is the stamina drain baised on time, and unrelated to the speed?