Unofficial Thievery Poll

[finegamingconnoisseur]

I just had the idea to do a quick, unofficial poll for thievery and see how it does here on the forums.

It's a simple 1-10 where 1 means least important, and 10 means most important.

I know that this poll will not be immune to astro-turfing either, but at least we will be able to see who voted for what and how many.

 

[manure]

Good idea.

Already voted.

 

[Cazik]

A 1 - 5 ranking would have been enough.

 

[bbihah]

I think the system needs more work than it would get being just another feature on the roadmap. It needs pretty much an entire update almost entirely on its own to get the work that it needs to become a system that is not an easy exploitable griefing tool, rather than a fun, engaging game mechanic that adds something to the game.


Which would also require that the criminal system AND reputation system we have right now are overhauled in the same go or before.
MO1 Really only made the entire system into a borderline inefficient griefing system. So I'd say for the current roadmap? its 0 out of 10. Make the next thing after the roadmap an entire update segment focused on crime, murder, thievery, lockpicking and finding a place for these in the world. Rather than making a shit system no one will like in 2-3 weeks.

 

[Xunila]

In MO1 the lockpicking skill has been child of thievery and required three primary skills: Thievery as secondary skill, then Snooping, Pilfering and Lockpicking as primary skills. I liked lockpicking of chest everywhere in the world and even in dungeons. I would like to get lockpicking again in MO2.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

A 1 - 5 ranking would have been enough.

It was to simulate the official poll which also had 1-10, this way people can vote with the same scale.

 

[fartbox]

Just don't see the value in thievery. If it was a polished system ready to go already then sure i'd say throw it in. But the reality of the situation is it will eat 6months of dev time. I also don't know how to balance something like thievery. I assume it will be a primary point class so it will be relegated to >10% of the population. So we'll get a handful of players, a good portion of which will be alts, probably under 200 in total that run around naked in starter cities and steal things out of inventory's.

I know why you guys want it though, I completely understand even though you might not understand why you want it; In theory it is an amazing tool that allows you "win" as a solo player and it's unique in mortal because there is basically no other system that allows you to win like that as a solo player. But we can get there in other ways, ways that are more healthy to the game then thievery.

"winning" as a solo player is very important to the health of the game. To all games, even matchmade ones like LOL or D&D, because they ultimately employ matchmaking systems that try to get you to a 50% win rate. Think about every MMO that has over 10k concurrent players, now think about how much solo content those MMO's have and compare/contrast to Mortal.

I see more value in something like combat abilities and full run speed casting that will touch every player that loads in the game and could even the playing the field between solo players vs groups and allow the combat to be more accessible to the survival/MMO demographic.

A new player will never get to thievery. They'll still be quitting after a handful of hours into the game. It won't positively impact adoption rates in my opinion.

I also see more value in something like Hellgates or corrupted dungeons. That could apply to nearly everyone playing the game. They could even make it so that Rats have a playstyle in the hellgates, and that could be your de-facto thievery.

The game is suffering right now because there is so little content for solo/small group players. That and the combat meta is so unappealing to the average MMO/Survival player. Eve online has a higher approval rating of the combat meta then Mortal does by a country mile. Imagine that; the average player enjoys playing Microsoft excel in space more then playing Mortal. So lets look at changing that.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

Just don't see the value in thievery. If it was a polished system ready to go already then sure i'd say throw it in. But the reality of the situation is it will eat 6months of dev time. I also don't know how to balance something like thievery. I assume it will be a primary point class so it will be relegated to >10% of the population. So we'll get a handful of players, a good portion of which will be alts, probably under 200 in total that run around naked in starter cities and steal things out of inventory's.

I know why you guys want it though, I completely understand even though you might not understand why you want it; In theory it is an amazing tool that allows you "win" as a solo player and it's unique in mortal because there is basically no other system that allows you to win like that as a solo player. But we can get there in other ways, ways that are more healthy to the game then thievery.

"winning" as a solo player is very important to the health of the game. To all games, even matchmade ones like LOL or D&D, because they ultimately employ matchmaking systems that try to get you to a 50% win rate. Think about every MMO that has over 10k concurrent players, now think about how much solo content those MMO's have and compare/contrast to Mortal.

I see more value in something like combat abilities and full run speed casting that will touch every player that loads in the game and could even the playing the field between solo players vs groups and allow the combat to be more accessible to the survival/MMO demographic.

A new player will never get to thievery. They'll still be quitting after a handful of hours into the game. It won't positively impact adoption rates in my opinion.

I also see more value in something like Hellgates or corrupted dungeons. That could apply to nearly everyone playing the game. They could even make it so that Rats have a playstyle in the hellgates, and that could be your de-facto thievery.

The game is suffering right now because there is so little content for solo/small group players. That and the combat meta is so unappealing to the average MMO/Survival player. Eve online has a higher approval rating of the combat meta then Mortal does by a country mile. Imagine that; the average player enjoys playing Microsoft excel in space more then playing Mortal. So lets look at changing that.

I think your post misses two interesting facets about thievery that I posted in two other thievery threads.

The first, thievery is so requested by many is because it's not just for those who want to play as thieves. For the non-thieves, thievery is content of the emergent kind unto itself. Some might say that this is the very essence of what a sandbox game is:
Post in thread 'Why Thievery Should be Exempt from the Vote and Prioritized' https://mortalonline2.com/forums/th...rom-the-vote-and-prioritized.11718/post-91103

The second, thievery is somewhat misunderstood. Some players probably see thievery as another mere tool for griefing others in town. But for those who have lived with and experienced thievery for the better part of a decade, it is so much more than that:
Post in thread 'Thievery Removed From Roadmap' https://mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/thievery-removed-from-roadmap.11715/post-91047

 

[grendel]

I do not have gmail, I voted here.
Thievery is most important to me.

 

[fartbox]

I think your post misses two interesting facets about thievery that I posted in two other thievery threads.

The first, thievery is so requested by many is because it's not just for those who want to play as thieves. For the non-thieves, thievery is content of the emergent kind unto itself. Some might say that this is the very essence of what a sandbox game is:
Post in thread 'Why Thievery Should be Exempt from the Vote and Prioritized' https://mortalonline2.com/forums/th...rom-the-vote-and-prioritized.11718/post-91103

The second, thievery is somewhat misunderstood. Some players probably see thievery as another mere tool for griefing others in town. But for those who have lived with and experienced thievery for the better part of a decade, it is so much more than that:
Post in thread 'Thievery Removed From Roadmap' https://mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/thievery-removed-from-roadmap.11715/post-91047

Tell me how thievery will increase new player retention? It will be an end-game loop solution when the problems Mortal faces now are early game dominant. When I watch youtube reviews of average players, trying and then subsequently quitting the game not once have I seen a mention of thievery. Almost exclusively the people requesting or mentioning thievery at all are MO1 players.

The game doesn't need any more MO1 players, i'm really sorry to be the one to break it to you. It was a 500 population game at its peak.

I'm not saying "never thievery", i'm just saying it's low priority. We get a patch once every 3-6months. Can't afford for one of those patches to be dedicated to thievery for a very long time.

 

[pooternackle]

Tell me how thievery will increase new player retention? It will be an end-game loop solution when the problems Mortal faces now are early game dominant. When I watch youtube reviews of average players, trying and then subsequently quitting the game not once have I seen a mention of thievery. Almost exclusively the people requesting or mentioning thievery at all are MO1 players.

The game doesn't need any more MO1 players, i'm really sorry to be the one to break it to you. It was a 500 population game at its peak.

I'm not saying "never thievery", i'm just saying it's low priority. We get a patch once every 3-6months. Can't afford for one of those patches to be dedicated to thievery for a very long time.

I originally bought the game because the launch trailer said thievery was in it. Then I found out that was a lie, but people insisted it was coming soon. So I kept playing and had some fun, but there is no way I'm going to maintain a sub if the feature that was promised to me when I bought the game is not coming within the foreseeable future.

 

[Rhias]

Tell me how thievery will increase new player retention? It will be an end-game loop solution when the problems Mortal faces now are early game dominant. When I watch youtube reviews of average players, trying and then subsequently quitting the game not once have I seen a mention of thievery. Almost exclusively the people requesting or mentioning thievery at all are MO1 players.

The game doesn't need any more MO1 players, i'm really sorry to be the one to break it to you. It was a 500 population game at its peak.

I'm not saying "never thievery", i'm just saying it's low priority. We get a patch once every 3-6months. Can't afford for one of those patches to be dedicated to thievery for a very long time.

I remember when I started playing MO1 taking my first earned money out of the bank and sneaking to the broker to buy something.
Was so much more exciting with the fear of beeing stolen from. Suddenly everyone around me looked like a Thief.

 

[fartbox]

I originally bought the game because the launch trailer said thievery was in it. Then I found out that was a lie, but people insisted it was coming soon. So I kept playing and had some fun, but there is no way I'm going to maintain a sub if the feature that was promised to me when I bought the game is not coming within the foreseeable future.

Do you believe thievery would be more meaningful to the overall population then an update that adds combat abilities and full speed casting or an instanced dungeon system that has group size restrictions?

I'm looking for dev time spent on meaningful change. We tried thievery before. It wasn't able to interest more then 500 players globally. Those are the facts. Thievery with improved graphics will have a net effect similar to the first thievery, that is to say "little to none".

I'm far too objective and i'm a results oriented pragmatic person. I've seen the system, I was unimpressed, the metrics speak for themselves.

 

[pooternackle]

Do you believe thievery would be more meaningful to the overall population then an update that adds combat abilities and full speed casting or an instanced dungeon system that has group size restrictions?

I'm looking for dev time spent on meaningful change. We tried thievery before. It wasn't able to interest more then 500 players globally. Those are the facts. Thievery with improved graphics will have a net effect similar to the first thievery, that is to say "little to none".

I'm far too objective and i'm a results oriented pragmatic person. I've seen the system, I was unimpressed, the metrics speak for themselves.

For me, yes. For many others, yes. Maybe not for you. Should also be said that Henrik said many combat additions would come with thievery, such as weapon poisoning, backstabs, and general rogue gameplay. So thievery was sold not just as ‘pickpocket and lockpick’, but an entire third combat play style.

 

[fartbox]

For me, yes. For many others, yes. Maybe not for you. Should also be said that Henrik said many combat additions would come with thievery, such as weapon poisoning, backstabs, and general rogue gameplay. So thievery was sold not just as ‘pickpocket and lockpick’, but an entire third combat play style.

Why didn't thievery attract a large playerbase before then? It already existed with lackluster results.

 

[manure]

Why didn't thievery attract a large playerbase before then? It already existed with lackluster results.

I already explained before.

Any evil game style will NEVER win any votation poll...
It has to be done without the players decision.

Imagine if this game wasnt full loot and there was a poll to add full loot...
Do you think it would have ANY CHANCE to win ?

Of course not.

Same applies to theft.
It had to be in game since day one !

 

[Doom and Gloom]

It would be higher on my list if I had any faith in SV's implementation. As I do not, I'd rather not get any more broken mechanics into the game. Especially ones which are bound to bug ppl out of their items by others exploiting design oversights.

 

[fartbox]

I already explained before.

Any evil game style will NEVER win any votation poll...
It has to be done without the players decision.

Imagine if this game wasnt full loot and there was a poll to add full loot...
Do you think it would have ANY CHANCE to win ?

Of course not.

Same applies to theft.
It had to be in game since day one !

Doesn't answer the question I asked at all. You and others that prioritize thievery will say that its "very important" to the health of the game. I asked that if it is so important then why didn't MO1 have more players, considering that it had thievery.

How will MO2 thievery add to the game in a positive way and attract more players to the game in ways MO1 thievery couldn't?

You need to be able to answer these questions. We are talking about dev resources here. We get a patches rarely, it takes the SV team enormous time to release new content. So why should the rest of the server vote for something that is going to take a ton of resources and produce poor results in exchange?

There are other updates on the list we can use our limited resources for that will have a greater impact on the game, is what i'm saying.

 

[pooternackle]

Doesn't answer the question I asked at all. You and others that prioritize thievery will say that its "very important" to the health of the game. I asked that if it is so important then why didn't MO1 have more players, considering that it had thievery.

How will MO2 thievery add to the game in a positive way and attract more players to the game in ways MO1 thievery couldn't?

You need to be able to answer these questions. We are talking about dev resources here. We get a patches rarely, it takes the SV team enormous time to release new content. So why should the rest of the server vote for something that is going to take a ton of resources and produce poor results in exchange?

There are other updates on the list we can use our limited resources for that will have a greater impact on the game, is what i'm saying.

Nobody needs to answer those questions. It’s not our responsibility to figure out how SV can attract new players.

Point is: game was marketed as having thieving. It didn’t. Jokes on us, I guess, but the idea that you’re gonna ask for subs when the feature is still not in the game (and now off the road map for the foreseeable future lmao) is absurd.

Maybe people like me are the minority, but the daily drop in player pops as people’s free months are timing out is telling a different story. Give people what you promised them 2 years ago instead of holding votes on whether to go back on those promises.

 

[Sally]

Tell me how thievery will increase new player retention? It will be an end-game loop solution when the problems Mortal faces now are early game dominant. When I watch youtube reviews of average players, trying and then subsequently quitting the game not once have I seen a mention of thievery. Almost exclusively the people requesting or mentioning thievery at all are MO1 players.

The game doesn't need any more MO1 players, i'm really sorry to be the one to break it to you. It was a 500 population game at its peak.

I'm not saying "never thievery", i'm just saying it's low priority. We get a patch once every 3-6months. Can't afford for one of those patches to be dedicated to thievery for a very long time.

Because thievery taps in to an entirely new audience. Because mechanics based around thievery would tap into a style of game that is host to some of the most popular franchises of all time. I already went through the list before on a different thread, but just type in "stealth games" into google. Or the fact that pretty much every MMORPG has a class with stealth mechanics or a means of playing via subterfuge.

It adds a whole different dimension to the game. Right now? The game doesn't feel very dynamic because of the lack of this dimension. This is a game that is heavily inspired by some level of realism, as much as it can in a fantasy setting.

Sneaking and stealth is a thing people can do realistically. You're only building on the core intent of the game by implementing it. That, and a rogue style of play is a key archtype to the fantasy RPG genre across the board.

Also, you want to bring up how MO1 didn't have more players, and pin the blame on thievery? No. Sorry, there are too many other factors that could've played into the failure of that game that have nothing to do with thievery. I for one never heard of MO1, but would've gladly played it if i'd known it existed. I have a feeling that may have had something to do with it's failure. That or a host of other potential issues completely unrelated to thievery.

The fact is, people like you are not thinking about what is good for the game, you are thinking about what will be more hassle for yourself. Thievery will most certainly be good for this game. It is an entirely new way of playing with a style of play that has a MASSIVE audience. You're worried about having to be on your toes in the "safe" zones. You feel entitled to a safe space where you can let your guard down in a game that is supposed to be brutal and punishing. You're one of these people who just don't belong on a game like this, and you contaminate the vision and drag it down with your selfishness.