The Death of a great game. A sad tale.

[Jaygrae]

I took a 4 month break recently and am pretty suprised by the state of the game now. I've been a big follower of Mortal Online since the first version and always go back to watch the youtube video "Mortal Online collector's edition" for a good laugh! Unfortuantely, the state of THIS game is now heading that direction.

When the second character slot was released, I understood it was for "financial" reasons. I understood that from a business point of view and why it was necessary. I mean lets be honest, SOME mo2 is better than not having it at all. But alas the fruit is not showing its rotten core. The removal of the "dynasty" system has completely exposed my fears.

After being gone 4 months and returning, you have major guilds broken apart. Internal fighting, guilds imploding, leaving the game, and friendships broken. The reason is there is ZERO accountability and no way to regulate (outside of being a neighborhood watch lunatic) on the safety net of your guild or group of friends. People are rolling spies, lying, cheating, stealing, which all just causes such a major lack of trust that guilds have potentially just become safe for "diehards". (aka people who know each other in RL/or years of gaming).

While this may sound just fine to some, as this is a hardcore MMO, for the vast majority this is a final nail in the coffin. 4 months doesn't seem like a long time, but from a "fresh" stand point let me share my observations over the past week.

Haven has now been turned into an AMAZING experience for NEW players. Giving them hope and excitement to journey on! Enter Nave and continue the amazing experience(s) had so far, but this is the reality of what they are offered on exit.

1. 20ft outside of ANY starting town they are fodder. They have ZERO interesting POI's to explore that are anywhere close to being safe. They are slaughtered for no other reason than bored players looking for entertainment. Do I blame the PKer? Not at all, the game/devs job is to provide LASTING fun and experiences that encourage other types of gameplay. Which this one clearly is not.

2. The actual so called "hard-core" pvp is gated by the most RIDICULOUS rules/regulations/costs/fees/time mechanics to actually do any REAL pvp content. (sieges, guild control ect) Why is anyone gonna go thru 50 thousand hoops to pvp when you can just roll up on some noob and slaughter him? Ya its terrible pvp but at least its INSTANT!

3. The "meta" is the same as it was 4 months ago and still not fixed? Taur dogs, low to the ground, quick turning, lancers speeding around the screen and instead of making this even "harder" to pull off- you give us MORE action points??? Why, who thought of something like this. Let alone WHY hasn't this been fixed.

4. Other "games" are now popping up taking #'s from this game due to explore/extract dungeon crawlers which are offering actual COMBAT moves. This is a major draw and being a "720 flip 50x, spin sword in whacky ways in full steel plate heavy armor ninja power go go) is beyond stupid. For the love of anything holy why isn't there some form of delay/slow on landing in combat. This is madness and its NOT fun, its really bad and the only reason its done is because THERE IS NO OTHER COMBAT PLAY.

I will always love the Mortal Online background/game/lore. Its definately not for everyone, but it needs to be at least able to hold enough players or we end up with an MO1 experience all over again. Returning to the game was an eye opening experience. Its sad to see how the #'s have bled in such a short time frame and the pre-existing issues are just heightened to another level. Something needs to be done and quickly. Because logging into the game and LOVING your first few days - just to be curb stomped 20ft outside your release into a major city is enough to make the majority quit.

Hoping you have an ace up your sleeve Hendrick. Best of luck and wishes to ALL players of MO2.

Wrain

 

[Jackdstripper]

This game is not a pvp game. Its a gank game. Everything is in favour of ganking. No surprise that the only people that remain are those that just live to gank others.

I left a few months back when the steel taur dogs were introduced. I really cant think of a more cancerous mechanic than a one button pet wearing steel that runs as fast as the fastest players…that you can also ride. I know they got nerfed, i just dont care anymore. Its the fact that SV thinks its ok to implement these things and “fix them later”.

The whole 360 jump/spin bullshit should have been stopped as soon as it started with a stagger mechanic if you get hit while jumping. Or any other punishing mechanic you can think of. Something, anything to make it unusable. But Henrik only wanted more content. Not fixing stuff.

Their whole game is a “fix it later” motto. Just ad it now, and we’ll fix it later…..Except that there wont be anyone left playing your game “later”. Its a shit show. A ganking, mechanics abusing, bug riddled shit show.

 

[Xronim]

Hard agree with all of the OP, the game is a huge mess and I used my free month to check it out within the dumpstertown of Fabernum, and also got to try mo1 again recently on my older desktop that still has the game installed. I played for a few months after release, then quit because it got annoying with guild constant accusations and drama.

It still baffles me to this day that most of the stats on almost everything got copypasted from mo1 with the extremely questionable balance, then adding shit like styg, pipe, rock solid, tactician to the game to be a cherry on top for absurd crap. Pets are insane and shouldve been curbstomped long ago, but it seems like theyre buffing them instead, and I used to be a tamer fighter in dawn patch mo1 and it was nowhere as strong as a pet user is in this game.

Speaking of combat, the whole ballerina dancing pretty much comes from the fact blocking has no cooldowns, where in mo1 there was a very small delay between letting go and blocking in another direction, and the game didnt track your turning nearly as much so it didnt look like you were having a seizure if you spun around while fighting alot.

I wasnt around for the earlier betas, but I've been watching how it went and instead of players really testing, it looked more like people were having drama over a testing period instead and barely any actual feedback went in, especially the time people were abusing the unstuck command to get up to places normally not accessible.

The game is a huge mess and needs almost the entire thing torn down and reworked entirely to be saved at this point, from stats, races, materials, weapon parts, magic etc all need to be entirely changed to make a better experience.

 

[Emdash]

The game is a huge mess and needs almost the entire thing torn down and reworked entirely to be saved at this point, from stats, races, materials, weapon parts, magic etc all need to be entirely changed to make a better experience.

Yeah...

Well, I didn't even know about MO2, and I am sure most people did not. In the crucial alpha phase they charged people a lot of money. I was def mad at them for doxing us, but that was probably the most important part of development.

All I wanted for them to do is fix melee combat. I was hoping that they'd add some systems, too, but where the game has gone since end beta is staggering. I wonder what the chance of them actually fixing the game is. As I said, I'm down to help and give feedback. I might even pay for a sub if I felt they really were trying to build a sandbox. If there is any bad faith, imo, it's devs... just adding stuff without making the game good. O well.

Like I posted on Reddit, I don't think it's worth offering feedback or trying to figure out how to fix the game... they are happy with what they have, either that or they are too afraid to make necessary adjustments.

 

[Gnidex]

Launching MO2 with exactly the same resources, recipes and etc like MO1 was the first nail in the coffin. You cannot cater that much to your existing playerbase when launching a TC MMO, touting the "discovery" element, when you've got a third party calculator from MO1 doing the job for MO2 too.

The second nail in the coffin was the character building, there is absolutely no way to make a halfway decent build for a new player, without again using a third party calculator. The game in no way educates the player on how to build a character at all. That causes everyone to remake their main at least once, which is a death knell for player retention even if it was free to play, not b2p + sub on top.

The third nail in the coffin is the worst in class UI. Using the broker to find anything is an exercise in self-hate. Scrolling through pages upon pages in a small non-resizeable window, without any details listed off the bat is the single worst market experience i had in my life. Add to that nonsensical BS like the whole UI suddenly CHANGING BUTTON FUNCTIONALITY once you open a box or bank is the height of stupidity. There's a reason most mmos use the standard way of moving/splitting objects, players have been trained to do it like this by better games in the past. It's just a blatant example of arrogance on part of SV thinking they know best lmao. Hands down the worst UI i've experienced, every time i play a new game and it has a bad UI i think: "At least it's not bad as mortal."

The fourth nail is the balance, which isn't there at all as was explained before.

The fifth nail is the overlarge game world with not enough stuff in it worth doing. The POI's are mostly a joke if it's not a dungeon.

I could go on and on, but not like Henrik ever reads this or gives AF.

The funny part is i can see my own arc of development in regards to this game. It launches and i think "Sweet, someone is finally remaking UO in a way.". Then i get the game and experience all the jank bugs, when i could even log in to play in the first place and think to myself: "Ah they're a small indie dev trying to fill big shoes, let's give em some slack and wait a while.". Then i actually joined the twitch streams and tried to push for some more great features UO had that'd work like a charm in MO2 like treasure hunting and etc, but that mofo keeps dreaming about boats when half of his gankbox is empty and cities look like you pasted two towns together that were 1000 years in development apart (just look at the abomination that is called Tindrem).

Then you watch crap being shoveled into the game for 2 years and it's just like watching a train wreck in slow motion by now. Now and then i still get a youtube video ping of Wolfzeit chasing that dragon in vain on youtube and grab my popcorn.

EDIT - Found the video, gold, simply gold, that lootbox is just like POI loot, sandbox loot:

 

[Xronim]

What gets me too gnidex, is the fact they decided to keep the maps resource balance the same as before, with NE being the only actual worthwhile place to contest as well. NW might as well not exist and the south at least had some uses earlier on for newer armorcrafters.

 

[Gnidex]

What gets me too gnidex, is the fact they decided to keep the maps resource balance the same as before, with NE being the only actual worthwhile place to contest as well. NW might as well not exist and the south at least had some uses earlier on for newer armorcrafters.

It's as if it was engineered to fail off the bat. You simply CANNOT have players of your old game knowing all the best resource spots even before the game is launched in a competitive TC MMO.

 

[Midas]

lol , the game is clearly not dieing. this is a horrible forum post.

 

[finegamingconnoisseur]

I took a 4 month break recently and am pretty suprised by the state of the game now. I've been a big follower of Mortal Online since the first version and always go back to watch the youtube video "Mortal Online collector's edition" for a good laugh! Unfortuantely, the state of THIS game is now heading that direction.

When the second character slot was released, I understood it was for "financial" reasons. I understood that from a business point of view and why it was necessary. I mean lets be honest, SOME mo2 is better than not having it at all. But alas the fruit is not showing its rotten core. The removal of the "dynasty" system has completely exposed my fears.

After being gone 4 months and returning, you have major guilds broken apart. Internal fighting, guilds imploding, leaving the game, and friendships broken. The reason is there is ZERO accountability and no way to regulate (outside of being a neighborhood watch lunatic) on the safety net of your guild or group of friends. People are rolling spies, lying, cheating, stealing, which all just causes such a major lack of trust that guilds have potentially just become safe for "diehards". (aka people who know each other in RL/or years of gaming).

While this may sound just fine to some, as this is a hardcore MMO, for the vast majority this is a final nail in the coffin. 4 months doesn't seem like a long time, but from a "fresh" stand point let me share my observations over the past week.

Haven has now been turned into an AMAZING experience for NEW players. Giving them hope and excitement to journey on! Enter Nave and continue the amazing experience(s) had so far, but this is the reality of what they are offered on exit.

1. 20ft outside of ANY starting town they are fodder. They have ZERO interesting POI's to explore that are anywhere close to being safe. They are slaughtered for no other reason than bored players looking for entertainment. Do I blame the PKer? Not at all, the game/devs job is to provide LASTING fun and experiences that encourage other types of gameplay. Which this one clearly is not.

2. The actual so called "hard-core" pvp is gated by the most RIDICULOUS rules/regulations/costs/fees/time mechanics to actually do any REAL pvp content. (sieges, guild control ect) Why is anyone gonna go thru 50 thousand hoops to pvp when you can just roll up on some noob and slaughter him? Ya its terrible pvp but at least its INSTANT!

3. The "meta" is the same as it was 4 months ago and still not fixed? Taur dogs, low to the ground, quick turning, lancers speeding around the screen and instead of making this even "harder" to pull off- you give us MORE action points??? Why, who thought of something like this. Let alone WHY hasn't this been fixed.

4. Other "games" are now popping up taking #'s from this game due to explore/extract dungeon crawlers which are offering actual COMBAT moves. This is a major draw and being a "720 flip 50x, spin sword in whacky ways in full steel plate heavy armor ninja power go go) is beyond stupid. For the love of anything holy why isn't there some form of delay/slow on landing in combat. This is madness and its NOT fun, its really bad and the only reason its done is because THERE IS NO OTHER COMBAT PLAY.

I will always love the Mortal Online background/game/lore. Its definately not for everyone, but it needs to be at least able to hold enough players or we end up with an MO1 experience all over again. Returning to the game was an eye opening experience. Its sad to see how the #'s have bled in such a short time frame and the pre-existing issues are just heightened to another level. Something needs to be done and quickly. Because logging into the game and LOVING your first few days - just to be curb stomped 20ft outside your release into a major city is enough to make the majority quit.

Hoping you have an ace up your sleeve Hendrick. Best of luck and wishes to ALL players of MO2.

Wrain

I respect your right to have your opinion. You brought up some points which I feel is consistently brought up no matter what SV does, whether they follow the suggestions of some players or go their own way. I feel it's become somewhat of a community culture to bash SV no matter which direction they take the game, but I respect everyone's right to say it because of freedom of speech.

For the second character slot, it's free for every account and we do not need to pay for it. Not sure what you mean when you say they're doing it for financial reasons. If anything, it is removing the need to pay for a second account in order to play a second character, which technically means less money for SV.

The shared reputation system was discarded probably because they want to emulate EVE Online which thrives off in-game player corporation espionage, theft, deception and scams. Henrik has from time to time referenced EVE as an inspiration, as was the case with Ultima Online.

1. I was going to the Fab graveyard the other day and from a distance I spotted a red standing around the bridge early, and I played the stand-off waiting game until he was finally killed by pet bears from two players. I'm not discounting the fact that new player ganking does happen. But also I think it has a lot to do with being observant and situationally aware. I'm not even a PvPer, but it's proof that it's not all doom and gloom even if you're the underdog.

Also, I remember when there were no guard towers or wandering guards outside of town, and players complained that this was too new player unfriendly. SV adds guards towers and more guards, and players complained that it was turning the game into Hello Kitty Online (or something along those lines).

2. I remember when PvP and sieges were easy and ninja sieges were a thing. There were plenty of negative feedback so SV made it harder to siege and ninja siege was removed. But now people complain that it's too many hoops.

3. I'm not into metas, but it's a common thing in all mmorpgs that no matter what balance or changes the developers make, the players will always create a new meta by readjusting their build and playstyle. I guess you could call it the survival of the fittest, even in a video game people will find ways to gain the competitive edge.

4. Again, I think this lack of slowness/delay is largely due to negative player feedback back when combat swings were slow. I have footage from back in the alpha and beta when swing animations were much slower. But players complained that this was lame and even praised MO1 for having faster combat. So SV presumably made it faster, but again, they can't please everyone.

As for the player numbers, obviously we're not trying to compare against bigger casual mainstream mmorpgs that don't have the same full PvP mostly-full looting rules as MO2. But in the past 4 months the numbers have actually gone up quite modestly:



For what's worth, I think SV is trying to please both crowds, so I'd give them credit for trying at least.

 

[Emdash]

^ I think they are trying to please the people who are most into the game. I think there are people who are subbing a lot of accounts, and that has changed since MO1. You know, I started MO1 after f2p was introduced. That's one thing you have to give MO2 credit for, they don't have f2p. F2p changed a lot of things in MO1 in regards to resource acquisition. However, I believe MO2 is filled with people who are subbing many accounts and those are the people who SV is listening to.

I understand why they don't take my feedback seriously (cuz I don't play anymore haha,) but when I post on Pax Dei stuff, for instance, people at least seem to listen and kick around the ideas.

This grind (mastery) is going to work for awhile, then it's going to drop off.

It's just not what it could have been. Or could BE. I completely believe it could have been a living world in a way no other game is. In my opinion, it fell short of even MO1 in that aspect, and ten years later that is a fail.

 

[Teknique]

When I look at MO2 I do not at all see a sandbox, political, hardcore, realistic game. Instead I see a contrived themepark with shallow systems across the board, fake sieging and meaningless politics. All with the clunkiest controls ever seen in a game.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

TLDR. Read some. Sounds like you're sad that you don't pvp and/or suck at it. Ok bye

 

[Sabella]

lol , the game is clearly not dieing. this is a horrible forum post.

lol , you say: the game is clearly not dieing without any explaination. Your post is a horrible forum post.

TLDR. Read some. Sounds like you're sad that you don't pvp and/or suck at it. Ok bye

Sounds like you can't handle the truth that's why you did not read it. Also you do not NEED to read it in the first place, there is t2s e.g.: read-out-loud add in for the browser. Are you from the stone age? Then going to attack the person... ok?!

You both guys are the problem why this is not going forward, your wet fanboy coping is doing only harm. How do you fix problems when you do not accept that there is a problem in the first place?

 

[Gnidex]

lol , you say: the game is clearly not dieing without any explaination. Your post is a horrible forum post.


Sounds like you can't handle the truth that's why you did not read it. Also you do not NEED to read it in the first place, there is t2s e.g.: read-out-loud add in for the browser. Are you from the stone age? Then going to attack the person... ok?!

You both guys are the problem why this is not going forward, your wet fanboy coping is doing only harm. How do you fix problems when you do not accept that there is a problem in the first place?

Don't feed the trolls. If he's actually serious i pity him, he should try out some real pvp games like Eve not this shit of an excuse for a game.

 

[SerCopium]

I was help chat banned permanently for no reason at all because apparently it was my "4th strike" which includes a previous ban for asking about pc hardware trouble with the game which apparently was not a "help question" and then followed by a perma ban for asking someone to stop spamming help chat and simultaneously asking my own question which was being ignored because of the spam. I am also losing hope on mortal. I asked for an escalation but they claim that once your ban is perma, they will never investigate further.
I have never once heinously misused their chat, 2 bans early on were probably be irresponsibly laughing at someones jokes they spammed in help. A perma ban from help is a seriously hindering thing for your account. Help chat is necessary to ask minor questions about damage calculation and skill applications and losing that has screwed me out of a resource everyone else has. It is preposterous.

I'll make my own post about it soon, but it is obvious that in both gameplay and management this game has people slipping through the cracks, and once a player is gone, its hard to bring them back. I am already feeling fatigued due to this chat ban and the gameplay problems have a much higher chance of pushing me away now that I can't even ask questions about some of the broken mechanics in game to better my gameplay. I am very upset.

 

[Jaygrae]

I've went ahead and finally let my sub end once again.
I really wish MO2 a great future, but its just too "punishing" to really embrace its gameplay right now.

What i'm seeing is the "core" issues which eventually made me take a break.

1. The game still feels like a job. EVERYTHING you do in this game just feels so unrewarding. Sure you have some amazing skills to level up, slowly gain those clade, get that armor crafting up, and then what? Spend 45minutes traveling across barren land to "possibly" gain some loot, or find some "fun" pvp? And usually neither happen. You either find the same old slog "bandits, scoundrels, or X dungeon" with empty trash chests OR you get spanked by "XMETA ZERG POWER to the 2nd XTRME". No fair fight, nothing fun, just 45 minutes wasted, and once again, naked in a town wondering why even try???

2. EVERYTHING you do feels "janky". Why does my character feel like drawing my weapons is a NASA trying to land a spaceship on the moon? The game treats you like you're an idiot. Its ridiculous. Sheathing the weaopon is like threading a needle??? Or swapping a weapon? I mean how SLOW in the brain am I? Or am I just scared to hold the steel or even understand the rythm of wielding my weapons?

3. EVERYTHING is "GUILD LOCKED". Everything. If you are a solo player good luck and enjoy those bread crumbs. "But Wrain its a GUILD based gameeee....stop crying and join a gguillldd." I dont need too, I've actually done well solo. But with that being said, THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PLAYERS DO NOT FEEL THIS WAY. There should be "options" of play. Random merchants traveling to move goods from one city to another. Social players who are able to "fish" and find some sort of solace at times. What about making trade routes with actual PLAYER house vendors???

4. The combat is just not fun. Its either the same old "lancer, cheat exploit, zip around the screen", "use pet power bam bam bam", "rat water-mage magic", or the infamous "Twist circles in the air and jump around swinging your sword BECAUSE THATS WHAT THE MELEE COMBAT IS."

5. The PVE is painful, why does EVERY fight feel like you are being "hustled" out of fun? Whats that, missed a parry on a marauder or 2 vets? Yup! Welcome to deaths door!!!(unless you are wearing top-tier gear or thursar/og build). You never feel powerful, you just feel like some rando guy who's barely hanging on to his life with table scraps. And again, for what? To "hope" that chest you got a key for isn't empty? Or you get some "ring/amulet?"

I'm not trying to slam the game, I find the opportunities ARE there, but they are sooo not worth the amount of time/work to actually get there. Sieges should be going off DAILY, non stop 24/7 PvP with reason. Building houses and buildings should be FAST construction and FAST tear down, with MINIMUM cost/value. Have perhaps the main core building that holds the TC actually keep the HP's and all survivability so each guild can hold its land without being gutter-sniped...but seriously. Sieges=pointless wastes of time/gold. (Thus WHY you are seeing GUILDS punk noobs, run around being TOXIC for no other reason that TO DO IT.) Again, i'm not saying this should be removed, It just should be further down the list, BECAUSE THE OTHER OPTIONS FOR GAMEPLAY ARE MORE FUN.

Why do you not just set Tindrem as the main "Starting town" for ALL new players? Put wandering guards and POI's out and slowly spread them out SO PLAYERS CAN ADAPT/ADJUST to the game instead of getting curb stopped, picking the WRONG starting town, and just quitting out. This is crazy. The #'s ARE dropping. This is NOT an opinion its a FACT. The numbers appear stable but thats ONLY because of new players joining. The core vets are all logging in less and less and this scares me. My friends list was massive, and the last time I logged in it was 5 players on...5. All of my die-hards who LOVED the game playing it daily; all quit, gone.

The last time I walked through Meduli, I found a group of "guys" blaring 90's hip hop pop music. Standing around a fire being obnoxious. Is there anything wrong with that? Not really other than being cringe, unless thats really what the game has come down to. A bunch of people so bored of the mechanics, so starved of FUN, they resort to turning this into a glorified VOIP.

Wrain

 

[Emdash]

I've went ahead and finally let my sub end once again.

A bunch of people have to quit before the game can be good again. So, hopefully they do. That's assuming the game will ever be good, but if it won't... they can get fucked, too. Don't pay money for a bad game.

 

[MortalEnjoyer42069]

A bunch of people have to quit before the game can be good again. So, hopefully they do. That's assuming the game will ever be good, but if it won't... they can get fucked, too. Don't pay money for a bad game.

This is why I fundamentally disagree with the sub model. Those unsubbed aren't coming back and they are never going to try the game again because they can't access the game to see any future changes first hand. The sub model in all instances lowers the games population as it's a barrier to entry. Anyone who knows anything about markets knows that barriers to entries are bad.
CEO

 

[Emdash]

This is why I fundamentally disagree with the sub model. Those unsubbed aren't coming back and they are never going to try the game again because they can't access the game to see any future changes first hand. The sub model in all instances lowers the games population as it's a barrier to entry. Anyone who knows anything about markets knows that barriers to entries are bad.
CEO

Hi, yeah I dunno. I think if the game was good, people would come back in droves. They should know exactly what people want, the actual majority of people who are long-term players that would allow the game to grow into something. They don't need to 'see it,' and further, if they ever did do a major change, they could offer another free month. There are many ways to do shit, and in general, I think their issue is not being able to bend enough.

They need to give the game a core and let it build from there. The problem is, there is already stuff built around the failing 'foundation.'

They would do best to remove all of the grindy shit from the game. I understand some people worked their ass off to get it, but I bet a bunch worked until they got half way and then quit, too. The pop is banding back to where it was. After you introduce a system that they feel is going to revitalize the game (like Mastery system,) you don't want that to happen. Cuz then you are back in the same place and may have to add yet another system which makes the game even more grindy because that's what people expect.

It's simple, let it be a world. Let people interact. Start with that then fix all of the wack shit that is bogging down the game, but the game should at least be fun to play for everyone. You should be able to get shit out of your storage in town and have fun until you turn off the game. You shouldn't be like yeah I gotta do this before I can be viable.

The thing is, there should be many different layers and each layer of investment should offer a different game. One should not be all around better. It should have positives and negatives. Zerging up shouldn't be the best option.

They NEED to have a system where people meet more often without anything impeding their ability to take actions. It needs to be more than just 'run into guy at bandit camp' because the only option there is FIGHT. That's not good. You need to run into someone like in MO1 and some people would be like OH NOOO A PERSON and be all scared. That is the most essential fiber of the game, human interaction without guard rails. Then you build from there.

But yea sub model is something I support because it does hold the company accountable. And my suggestion would be to offer free game time if the game ever changes in a way to make it good and people are reluctant to play, but I think the word would spread fast enough that it might not be necessary.