[Suggestion] SV & Community - Encourage forum activity & usage

[ThaBadMan]

I would argue not "lots" of people saying MO1 was more skill-based; a vocal minority saying that; a vocal minority that was out-voted once already on these forums. The "higher skill ceiling" in MO1 was simply the ability/knowledge how to exploit, plain and simple. Exploiting isn't skill, it's history, and gratefully so.

Yes lots do say that, because its true. Early MO was very much about skill and skill alone.
A very good player in Ogh could get flawlessed by a naked with a weapon if he was just slightly more skilled.
All those players have quit, they lost hope for MO and never looked back. The reason you dont see them post and discuss, most simply quit never to come back EVER due to SVs early failure.

Please do start listing the exploits, im sure most of them are intended while seem like exploits to low knowledge players because of the trash server and other issues.

Yes some abused bugs and as such exploited but most played as intended and did not abuse bugs in order to win fights.
I do wonder if you know what an exploit is based on this statement, also would be better if you state what MO your talking about, beta, release, mid MO or late MO.

 

[Darthus]

A very good player in Ogh could get flawlessed by a naked with a weapon if he was just slightly more skilled.

I will say, this sounds great in theory, but this is a horrible system for an MMO that wants to get any sort of semi-mainstream traction. This is exactly what enables people who have no investment in the overall health the game, but have played it for a while (or just happen to have more skill) to decide one day they are going to naked-run every noob they see for 8 hours. For them, they are risking nothing (they are likely full murderer rep anyway, and are losing no loot) but their worthless time and in the process driving away whole segments of the player population.

This is not the point of this thread, but it's related. Being a bandit/murderer should be a risky and dangerous lifestyle. Being able to naked run people with no risk and slaughter countless folks with no risk or effort until someone as no-life as you shows up sounds epic, but it makes for a horrible game for 99% of people.

If a relative noob who is average with the combat system is decked out in decent gear and you are naked with a sword, it should be VERY hard for you to kill them just simply because your level of risk is 0 where theirs is very high. Gear needs to matter to a certain degree just to create risk in combat, which means that player skill cannot be absolutely everything and fights cannot last 5 seconds. That works for Counterstrike or even Mordhau where the maximum thing you're losing by dying is a few seconds of your time, but in an MMO with full loot, it cannot be that way or the only people who will stay are those people.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

There was a poll that the current combat system feels good that was referenced as support that the entire system doesn't need an overhaul. You're proposing that we have polls about "balance changes". There is a HUGE difference there, I've watched played out in multiple games including the old Thursar-Khurite issue in MO1.

People advocating for nerfs of anything that isn't their chosen playstyle and while advocating for buffs or against nerfs to their chosen playstyle. Taken to an extreme you can get it to the point that people who play other roles start leaving the game or switching to that role creating a self-feeding loop. Player feedback might yield a particularly good suggestion on how to address a balance issue in some cases but the decisions on WHAT needs to be balanced should generally have the developers darn near completely ignoring what the forums have to say and instead looking at data on what builds are played most frequently and their K/D in certain matchups.

Going with what the majority says needs to happen balance-wise when the majority may all playing the same OP build is worse than useless feedback. It's counterproductive.

Yes because the best players want to all play the best races / roles.

Just telling you now, if that was the case then in MO1 people would have all just played mounted or pet users. But not everyone did, and you could tell bad players from good players cause they'd stick to these roles like flies on shit.

The most optimal race / build doesn't mean the best players follow / support it. Actual good players want extreme diversity and competitive-like mechanics so that better players like them can rise up and challenge them.

A good player wants good skill based mechanics, and a good player never wants to literally be the best - only have the mindset to be the best.

I don't want my role to be overpowered, and I don't want everyone being mechanically crutched by a slow combat system.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

And devs listening to a loud vocal majority didn't work out so well last time...


I would argue not "lots" of people saying MO1 was more skill-based; a vocal minority saying that; a vocal minority that was out-voted once already on these forums. The "higher skill ceiling" in MO1 was simply the ability/knowledge how to exploit, plain and simple. Exploiting isn't skill, it's history, and gratefully so.

Thats just not true.

 

[Eldrath]

I guess history IS written by the victorious. The victorious in this case where the people that thought walls everywhere and broken combat mechanics would revive the game, because being able to solo PvE was more important than fixing mechanics surrounding conflict.

Worked out great the first time around.

 

[Svaar]

UserEcho: Решение для поддержки клиентов

Онлайн сервис поддержки клиентов - Форум отзывов, Хелпдеск, База знаний и Онлайн чат от UserEcho

userecho.ru

I already said that there is a good solution both for testers and for the developers themselves. forum with the possibility of feedback and full structure. not a classic forum. this site was used by the developers of the last oasis for their testers. in it we exposed bugs, made suggestions, and so on. and the developers set statuses, openly, in progress, corrected, and so on. also, this site allows you to conduct surveys and the like.

 

[Ministro]

Yes because the best players want to all play the best races / roles.

The most optimal race / build doesn't mean the best players follow / support it.

Lol pick one.

 

[Ministro]

Please do start listing the exploits, im sure most of them are intended while seem like exploits to low knowledge players because of the tash server and other issues.

Yes some abused bugs and as such exploited

Lol you pick one too

lotta self-contradiction goin on around here...

 

[ThaBadMan]

Lol you pick one too

lotta self-contradiction goin on around here...

Hard to understand this post here. But im not the one saying exploits was the only way to beat people in MO.
If I could beat 99% of MO players without using exploits im sure many others did the same.

 

[Ministro]

Hard to understand this post here. But im not the one saying exploits was the only way to beat people in MO.
If I could beat 99% of MO players without using exploits im sure many others did the same.

I was saying that you first tried to imply that people were confusing skillful play with exploits, (and being rather insulting about it. "low-knowledge players"? is the insulting really necessary?) then later in the same post admit that yea, people were actually exploiting.

"But im not the one saying exploits was the only way to beat people in MO." Yea, that's because *nobody* ever said that. Stop making crap up.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I was saying that you first tried to imply that people were confusing skillful play with exploits, (and being rather insulting about it. "low-knowledge players"? is the insulting really necessary?) then later in the same post admit that yea, people were actually exploiting.

"But im not the one saying exploits was the only way to beat people in MO." Yea, that's because *nobody* ever said that. Stop making crap up.

Hmm theres many people claiming MOs combat was about who could exploit the best and thats where the skill was.

Low knowledge players is not an insult simply an observation. Not my fault you are a snowflake who cant take the cold hard truth.
Everyone has low knowledge at first. I only comment it when people talk while only having low amount of knowledge.

Even the best made games with least amount of bugs and most amount of polish will have exploiters in it. Every single game will have exploiters. Big difference between having exploiters and claiming a combat system is only about exploits. So no theres no admit or opposite statements here.

People are saying it, just because you dont THINK they do dont make that statment made up. Most low knowledge players from MO with big egos have said that exact things numerous times. Its a common statement from peolpe who dont know better. Same with the crowd yelling hacks/cheats to everyone who beats them.

Those are sadly the people SV listens to...

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Lol pick one.

Sarcasm, sorry you can't pick up on it.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Hmm theres many people claiming MOs combat was about who could exploit the best and thats where the skill was.

Low knowledge players is not an insult simply an observation. Not my fault you are a snowflake who cant take the cold hard truth.
Everyone has low knowledge at first. I only comment it when people talk while only having low amount of knowledge.

Even the best made games with least amount of bugs and most amount of polish will have exploiters in it. Every single game will have exploiters. Big difference between having exploiters and claiming a combat system is only about exploits. So no theres no admit or opposite statements here.

People are saying it, just because you dont THINK they do dont make that statment made up. Most low knowledge players from MO with big egos have said that exact things numerous times. Its a common statement from peolpe who dont know better. Same with the crowd yelling hacks/cheats to everyone who beats them.

Those are sadly the people SV listens to...

Can you imagine players actually writing off MO1 combat in its entirety with "it was just who could exploit more".

So fucking stupid. They do realize prediction is just as much as thing in MO2 as it was in MO1, so I guess we're all exploiters then. Hopefully SV takes care of us.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Can you imagine players actually writing off MO1 combat in its entirety with "it was just who could exploit more".

So fucking stupid. They do realize prediction is just as much as thing in MO2 as it was in MO1, so I guess we're all exploiters then. Hopefully SV takes care of us.

Indeed.
Its the old blame anything but yourself way of thinking.

 

[Ministro]

You two feeding off each other is almost not worth responding to, but lets be clear; some people in MO1 won by skill, and some won by exploiting, and yes, I count things like tricking prediction exploiting. You can use whatever name-calling you like, doesn't change anything. Since you've managed to completely hijack this thread, I'm not contributing to it anymore. I'll let you two get back to validating each other now; it's kinda cute, in a sad, codependent way. Cya.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

You two feeding off each other is almost not worth responding to, but lets be clear; some people in MO1 won by skill, and some won by exploiting, and yes, I count things like tricking prediction exploiting. You can use whatever name-calling you like, doesn't change anything. Since you've managed to completely hijack this thread, I'm not contributing to it anymore. I'll let you two get back to validating each other now; it's kinda cute, in a sad, codependent way. Cya.

You do it too, bye.

 

[Solairerection]

I will say, this sounds great in theory, but this is a horrible system for an MMO that wants to get any sort of semi-mainstream traction. This is exactly what enables people who have no investment in the overall health the game, but have played it for a while (or just happen to have more skill) to decide one day they are going to naked-run every noob they see for 8 hours. For them, they are risking nothing (they are likely full murderer rep anyway, and are losing no loot) but their worthless time and in the process driving away whole segments of the player population.

This is not the point of this thread, but it's related. Being a bandit/murderer should be a risky and dangerous lifestyle. Being able to naked run people with no risk and slaughter countless folks with no risk or effort until someone as no-life as you shows up sounds epic, but it makes for a horrible game for 99% of people.

If a relative noob who is average with the combat system is decked out in decent gear and you are naked with a sword, it should be VERY hard for you to kill them just simply because your level of risk is 0 where theirs is very high. Gear needs to matter to a certain degree just to create risk in combat, which means that player skill cannot be absolutely everything and fights cannot last 5 seconds. That works for Counterstrike or even Mordhau where the maximum thing you're losing by dying is a few seconds of your time, but in an MMO with full loot, it cannot be that way or the only people who will stay are those people.

I disagree whole-heartedly with almost everything in this post. For me it's the complete opposite thinking. You speak as if someone just logs in and becomes instantly good at the game.
How long does it take to get a set of decent gear? A couple of hours at max? How long does it take to get reliably good? fifty hours? hundred hours? thousand hours? And you don't get good from just macroing and reading spreadsheets either, you have to actively play the game, and continue doing so to not lose your edge.

I think for a sandbox game it's even more important that skill comes foremost. It helps build characters from players and their actions. Everyone would want the group filled with players who can reliably kill 5 others while naked, and the better you are the more wanted and famous you will be. Right now, the best is settled who has spent the most time mining/butchering and collecting combat-pets, rather than fine-tuning their skills with and against others.