Suggestion - make it less rewarding to spin around in MO2

[Holypimp]

Realised I posted this thread in the wrong forum.

Hello MO community,

I come here because Farmerjoe told me to post this thread here, so here goes.

I have always been a Mortal Online fan ever since the teaser trailer. And even if I didn't play much MO1 (it had it's problems ) I am absolutely hyped for MO2, I love what i'm seeing in the closed alpha, graphics are incredible, combat is getting ever tigher. The game looks very promising indeed, so good job SV and good job to the testers!!

I come to you to voice my concern about spinning while fighting, I put the link of a video that has two dudes testing the directional blocking and swinging, and as someone who played his fair share of Chivalry Medieval Warfare something is striking me when I look at this video, it's that the alpha testers are already using the tactic of spinning around like a ballerina to make it harder for their opponent to read their strike.

CMW had it's problems in the sense that top tier players now only resort to reverse over heads, dragging the animation of their swing, it is not fun for anyone, even them. But they keep using it because it is now the only viable way of fighting. I am now seeing the same abuse of game mechanics in MO2 and we're not past closed alpha yet.

While this may be regarded as a viable tactic to some, I think it will be detrimental to the health of the game in the long run. This kind of spinning around and abusing the animations to make it nigh impossible to block will not only make people flee MO2 en masse, it will be regarded as the only way to fight in the future, and all we'll see are people spinning like tops.

This is not to say spinning should be removed, in the contrary, the first time i've seen one of the duel videos and I saw the guy spin into a stab I thought it was awesome.. what the game would need is some sort of penalty to your stamina if you spin too much (Ever tried spinning 10 times around? You'll feel dizzy) or lock the mouse sensitivity so that you can't do a 720 degrees in a fraction of a second.

Like I said I love the new MO2 and i'm excited as hell to play it. Star Vault really did learn from experience and I could't be happier!

 

[Slammington Unchained]

Spin to win has been a tactic in almost every game. 360 no scoping in COD, Garen's E in League of Legends, Darkfall, Darkfall Unholy Wars, MO1, and fidget spinners. At this point spinning is a hardcore mechanic with a deeply rooted history in gaming; the spins stay.

 

[Neftan]

I agree with the OP.

 

[Solairerection]

While this may be regarded as a viable tactic to some, I think it will be detrimental to the health of the game in the long run. This kind of spinning around and abusing the animations to make it nigh impossible to block will not only make people flee MO2 en masse, it will be regarded as the only way to fight in the future, and all we'll see are people spinning like tops.

I agree in particular to this. I don't mind the spinning per se, people may play however they like, but it is one of few viable ways to get around someone turtling/parrying due to how the 360 blocking works. Normal footwork won't cut it because even if you completely hook them and hit them in the back they can still parry you.

Maybe it will need some balancing/penalty in the future, but I think it's better to add other viable options (and hopefully no more 360 blocking) to fight against parry-turtles before you start penalising this particular playstyle.
I don't think it will drive anyone away from the game, it is not nearly as extreme as Chivalry was/is, but there is a good chance we will see it more and more in future, and perhaps it will be the most dominant fighting tactic (which, indeed, is not everyone's cup of tea).

 

[Helix]

I think transparency is really important in combat, but even more so in a pvp game. A certain amount of obfuscation is okay I guess, but too much and it becomes painful, especially since combat is chaotic as it already is.

 

[Rorry]

They should make swings take less time to charge, that would help. It will be nice when they fix the sound so you can hear whether the person parried you or not, as well.

 

[Valoran]

The irony of this is that Henrik himself implemented the sensitivity lock when releasing a swing in attempt to eliminate what he calls "clown spins" that were apparently present in MO1 (I would disagree).

But at the same time due to the increased fluidity of the animations made actual spinning a viable tactic.


Clearly this is unintended, and it is very silly to look at when you see someone literally spinning around in attempt to confuse you.


I believe a simple fix would be to increase the recovery time after cancelling a swing with the walk feint button. Taking a few extra dozen milliseconds to recover before you are able to begin charging another swing.

That way people can spin all they want, but it won't be as effective at masking their attack direction switching.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I feel spinning will be there in duels while group fights you wont be able to stand there spinning like a dead clown. In a 20v20 the fight will not only be chaotic like real battlefields but the fight will move fast due to the increased speed from MO which will eliminate "clown spinning".

And this game should be balanced more around group fighting than dueling. We sadly have not reached that stage in Alpha testing to have good group/guild fuctions/tools/options.

 

[Rhodri_Taliesin]

this game should be balanced more around group fighting than dueling. We sadly have not reached that stage in Alpha testing to have good group/guild fuctions/tools/options.

I still think individual skill should matter, even in group fights, otherwise we end up with a straight numbers game and not a game where heroes and great warriors overcome the odds of bodies being thrown at them.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I still think individual skill should matter, even in group fights, otherwise we end up with a straight numbers game and not a game where heroes and great warriors overcome the odds of bodies being thrown at them.

Thats not what im saying, im saying dont balance it through dueling that way you wont have a balanced group combat. MO1 was more balanced through dueling than group fights and then ramped up from CBT to release because of group fights it felt like.

CBT being fast paced with high dmg and low amount of hits to death with low pool of stam but fast regen. It changed into more HP, lower dmg, slower paced and higher stamina with lower regen.

 

[TheTyGuy]

its not that fun if you stand still and look ahead hitting someone and not trying to trick them into parrying the wrong way, and its not even that op. you parried 80% of my hits but I guess when you add movement to it, it works 100% better,

 

[ThaBadMan]

its not that fun if you stand still and look ahead hitting someone and not trying to trick them into parrying the wrong way, and its not even that op. you parried 80% of my hits but I guess when you add movement to it, it works 100% better,

In this video I honestly just tried to parry to see the delay. You dont see it that clearly but if I blocked when you or Waalan had started your animation I got hit but only when I blocked before hit animation started I got parry. With Waalan we did it with one of the fastest weapons but your 2h sword because of the ping is faster than the warhammer which is a faster weapon.
Before the last patch I would parry more than 80% of the hits but after with the ping delay I cant. But its worse for hitting as my hits are slower than yours or Waalans after the patch while before it was the same.

As said this video was meant to mostly be to showcase the new delay which rewards low ping and punish higher ping with slower actions. I am lucky enough to have around 50 ping so its not too bad for me but I can definitely feel the difference.

Now when I fight you I need to fight you a whole different way than before the patch. I cant get into the parry game as I will lose solely on the ping difference, so I need to go the berserk mode where I hit trade more as you saw in YDs duels.

Ill get around to making videos showing the last few days duels when I get the time. The duels vs Ariola was good to showcase the difference between a 3kg weapon and my 1.2kg warhammer and his is as fast as mine which shows he has lower ping than me. Hope I have a recording of a fight a few days ago with the same axe but with a higher ping opponent showing its slower there. But I have to see if I did get that recorded or not.

Hopefully mondays patch decreases the delay by atleast 50% to lower the difference.

 

[Steinerr]

Spinning seems more of a duel tactic and those dont concern me if you are spinning in a group fight your ass is getting called out and focused/stickied to the ground.

Even then there is a moment he turns where you can run around him and strike him with a faster weapon rendering his spinning useless (unless he has the ability to parry your hit WHILE spinning and sadly it is possible in MO 2 i have done it)

Also you guys keep forgetting that the weapons in the game now are only steel and everyone is wearing 0 armor weight so the stamina penalty is not even there. There are always ways around a shitty successful tactic thats why i love MO.

 

[Steinerr]

I still think individual skill should matter, even in group fights, otherwise we end up with a straight numbers game and not a game where heroes and great warriors overcome the odds of bodies being thrown at them.

individual skill always mattered along with what armor and weapon materials you had at your disposal and not to mention numbers that matters alot in any game. But above all synergistic skill beats everything mentioned above and has and it should in MO 2 more so than MO 1.

 

[TheTyGuy]

Spinning seems more of a duel tactic and those dont concern me if you are spinning in a group fight your ass is getting called out and focused/stickied to the ground.

Even then there is a moment he turns where you can run around him and strike him with a faster weapon rendering his spinning useless (unless he has the ability to parry your hit WHILE spinning and sadly it is possible in MO 2 i have done it)

Also you guys keep forgetting that the weapons in the game now are only steel and everyone is wearing 0 armor weight so the stamina penalty is not even there. There are always ways around a shitty successful tactic thats why i love MO.

true shit

 

[TheTyGuy]

In this video I honestly just tried to parry to see the delay. You dont see it that clearly but if I blocked when you or Waalan had started your animation I got hit but only when I blocked before hit animation started I got parry. With Waalan we did it with one of the fastest weapons but your 2h sword because of the ping is faster than the warhammer which is a faster weapon.
Before the last patch I would parry more than 80% of the hits but after with the ping delay I cant. But its worse for hitting as my hits are slower than yours or Waalans after the patch while before it was the same.

at 38 seconds into the video he parried you and hit you, you parried like milliseconds after the hit registered