Suggestion - Change swing release slow down to be less restrictive

[Rhias]

It was specifically for preventing clown spins, but it obviously didnt work or had any impact at all since players usually spin before they release the swing not after

View attachment 326

So it was pretty much a useless addition that serves no purpose now

Probably to prevent the abuse of turning when thursting...

(It's a 360, which most likely nobody did. But 90 degree dragging worked as well, and was abused by quite a few.)

 

[Teknique]

Probably to prevent the abuse of turning when thursting...

(It's a 360, which most likely nobody did. But 90 degree dragging worked as well, and was abused by quite a few.)

Good, bring that back. The swing arc, the handle already take care of the having good aim “abuse” above.

 

[Eldrath]

I'm getting tired of adapting to a new meta every week I must say. I almost don't even care anymore.

Wow ... maybe you should stop giving feedback then? So you want to the game to stop changing in ALPHA so you can get used to the the meta?

This actually explains a lot both from you and like minded people like thebadman. The fuck.

The difference is that quake has a massive amount of inertia, making it easily possible to calculate exactly where someone will be in a fraction of a second as their range of possible movements is very low within a short period of time, unlike in mortal.

Throughout the duration that the turn cap in question is applied, you are unable to move more than a few degrees. I think you might be confusing the pre swing stage with what i'm talking about here, as you cannot 180 while being affected by this turncap regardless of your sensitivity or DPI.

I´m not confusing anything. I am also tired of repeating myself to someone who claims that aiming and movement are not closely related in a shooter. I mean I can only tolerate a certain amount of bullshit.

Henrik stated that there will be another iteration in the next patch. I´m sure it´s not gonna be the last and I´m sure kids gonna cry about having to "adapt to a new meta". In alpha.?

 

[Teknique]

Wow ... maybe you should stop giving feedback then? So you want to the game to stop changing in ALPHA so you can get used to the the meta?

This actually explains a lot both from you and like minded retards like thebadman. The fuck.

Hahaha. To clarify I want them to stop making obviously bad changes that anyone with some foresight could see suck and/or are not consistent with the fluidity of play from this studio that we’re accustomed to.

I’m all for fixing things like the block abuse etc. I’m not for catering to garbage cans.

I’m getting tired of adapting to pointless meta changes. But you can take that information to reaffirm your beliefs and dismiss, I doubt it will get you far though. Other than the fact henrik is looking for goofballs to cheer him on as he ruins the only thing most of us liked about the game.

It’s funny he talked about sticking to crafting because everyone liked it. Everyone liked the base combat too I.e no turn caps no random decels

 

[Eldrath]

It’s funny he talked about sticking to crafting because everyone liked it. Everyone liked the base combat too I.e no turn caps no random decels

Well we haven´t seen how mangled crafting will come out. Restricting heads on weapons handles is already a bad sign. Being able to make non sense weapons was part of the charm of MOs crafting.

MOs combat had strength and weaknesses. It was jittery, prediction was shit and most of the time it looked like a terrible mess. It also allowed for dedicated indivuduals to get better because of the speeds involved. It was quite raw, with very little in the way of meta builds with buffs and stupid shit like healing balls.

Why there is an Alpha is to get rid of the fucked up stuff and keep the good parts. The problem is that many are not willing to recognize how truly shit some aspects of MO1 combat were. Trading speed for a reasonably precise prediction was one that does not work out. You have to limit speed to archive fluidity in combat. Yet the same crowd whining about a turn cap was against any reduction in movement speed as well. Do you see a pattern?

Preserving the fucked up things from MO1 because you got good in using them is a bad strategy for everyone involved. Maybe you and thebadman can have a private pre-dawn MO1 server?

 

[ElPerro]

Probably to prevent the abuse of turning when thursting...

(It's a 360, which most likely nobody did. But 90 degree dragging worked as well, and was abused by quite a few.)

Well that "abuse" felt alot better than what we have now... Its pretty much impossible to aim stabs and overheads correctly with this turn cap on a moving target, if they want to limit 360 flicks thats okay but it should at least give you a small leway to correct your aim.

 

[Teknique]

Well we haven´t seen how mangled crafting will come out. Restricting heads on weapons handles is already a bad sign. Being able to make non sense weapons was part of the charm of MOs crafting.

MOs combat had strength and weaknesses. It was jittery, prediction was shit and most of the time it looked like a terrible mess. It also allowed for dedicated indivuduals to get better because of the speeds involved. It was quite raw, with very little in the way of meta builds with buffs and stupid shit like healing balls.

Why there is an Alpha is to get rid of the fucked up stuff and keep the good parts. The problem is that many are not willing to recognize how truly shit some aspects of MO1 combat were. Trading speed for a reasonably precise prediction was one that does not work out. You have to limit speed to archive fluidity in combat. Yet the same crowd whining about a turn cap was against any reduction in movement speed as well. Do you see a pattern?

Preserving the fucked up things from MO1 because you got good in using them is a bad strategy for everyone involved. Maybe you and thebadman can have a private pre-dawn MO1 server?

The word you’re looking for is achieve not archive, since I’ve seen you use it many times.

Agreed refine the good get rid of the shit. The only people I see who want these decels that were actually mo1 players (within the last 6 years) is rhias. Everyone else was relatively unknown or had low hours. People seem to think the niche loyal customer base is the problem I don’t think so I think we’re the fail safe. It was the decel crowd that will be begging for mounteds and death knights I’m willing to bet on that.

I had hope we were going to do just that refine mo1. Instead we’re going to amplify everything bad about it, and kill what was good, it seems.

Well that "abuse" felt alot better than what we have now... Its pretty much impossible to aim stabs and overheads correctly with this turn cap on a moving target, if they want to limit 360 flicks thats okay but it should at least give you a small leway to correct your aim.

Idk man those 20 degree flicks, kinda breaking the combat.

 

[Eldrath]

The word you’re looking for is achieve not archive, since I’ve seen you use it many times.

Agreed refine the good get rid of the shit. The only people I see who want these decels that were actually mo1 players (within the last 6 years) is rhias. Everyone else was relatively unknown or had low hours. People seem to think the niche loyal customer base is the problem I don’t think so I think we’re the fail safe. It was the decel crowd that will be begging for mounteds and death knights I’m willing to bet on that.

I had hope we were going to do just that refine mo1. Instead we’re going to amplify everything bad about it, and kill what was good, it seems.



Idk man those 20 degree flicks, kinda breaking the combat.

Please point out all alpha testers you know of that haven´t played MO1.

Also if you can´t do 20° flicks currently there is something wrong with your wrist.

Just lowered my DPI to 650 and sens to 20%. Now I´m only able to to do 150° spins during a swing. Literally unplayable.

 

[Valoran]

I´m not confusing anything. I am also tired of repeating myself to someone who claims that aiming and movement are not closely related in a shooter. I mean I can only tolerate a certain amount of bullshit.

Given that it is literally impossible to turn more than a few degrees while this short turn cap is active, you are either mistaking what we are talking about, or you have somehow broken the game to not work correctly allowing you to turn further.

As the latter is pretty unlikely, I don't think it's too far fetched to assume the former.


If you are certain you are not mistaken however, please produce a video of you turning 180 degrees while the turn cap is active.

 

[MolagAmur]

A charging turn cap would be even worse. All its going to do is making it even harder to fight outnumbered and make split second adjustments/parries. This whole lowering DPI idea needs to end imo. Its dumbing down combat.

Were clown spins really an issue because I don't really remember anyone actually doing it. If you want to prevent that and really insist on this DPI lock then just make it so people can't have that high of sensitivity. I can barely do a 360 without having to pick my mouse up.

Also as I've said...the results of the current lock are inconsistent and many people are going to have different opinions and experiences with it. Higher sensitivity really does make it feel not as bad. But I don't wanna be forced to play with high sens.

 

[Eldrath]

Slowed it down so it´s clear when the swing animation starts. 650 DPI and 50%.

 

[Valoran]

Slowed it down so it´s clear when the swing animation starts. 650 DPI and 50%.

Here is a video showing the turn cap at various sensitivities and 800 DPI.

Holding an arrow key will move the screen at a constant rate, allowing you to see the duration and intensity of the slow down applied.

You can see here that for a very brief moment, you are severely limited in how far you can turn.


This makes fine tuning your swings very annoying and is the source of the feeling of inconsistency that many people are complaining about, as the sensitivity suddenly changes.


Given that the slow down is even visible when turning at an incredibly slow rate as shown in the video, it isn't such a crazy idea to propose that it be made slightly more lenient.

 

[Eldrath]

Here is a video showing the turn cap at various sensitivities and 800 DPI.

Holding an arrow key will move the screen at a constant rate, allowing you to see the duration and intensity of the slow down applied.

You can see here that for a very brief moment, you are severely limited in how far you can turn.


This makes fine tuning your swings very annoying and is the source of the feeling of inconsistency that many people are complaining about, as the sensitivity suddenly changes.


Given that the slow down is even visible when turning at an incredibly slow rate as shown in the video, it isn't such a crazy idea to propose that it be made slightly more lenient.

Pretty long post for telling me I´m right. I never said there was no slowdown. I just destroyed everyones narrative about how crippling it is.

My video shows what you can do. Yours only proves that there is a slow down, which was never debated by anyone. It´s completely irrelevant if you turn slowly or fast - it is there. Congratulation for going for the lowest hanging fruit. I´m looking forward to your prov that pressing W moves you forward.

 

[Valoran]

Pretty long post for telling me I´m right. I never said there was no slowdown. I just destroyed everyones narrative about how crippling it is.

My video shows what you can do. Yours only proves that there is a slow down, which was never debated by anyone. It´s completely irrelevant if you turn slowly or fast - it is there. Congratulation for going for the lowest hanging fruit. I´m looking forward to your prov that pressing W moves you forward.

The video shows that you in fact cannot turn 180 degrees while the turn cap is active, which is what you were claiming you could do.

As has been stated several times already, the turn cap makes it much more annoying to aim thrusts and overheads on moving targets due to the clunky feeling of suddenly having your sensitivity drop to 1% for one second.


No one has said it is completely crippling, or that it prevents you from being able to do anything. Simply that it is an annoyance.

Because of this annoyance, it is beneficial to question why it exists in the first place and to analyse it further, because if it can be changed to improve the game without losing anything, why would you not want that to happen?


Unless you are aware of some enormous benefit that this specific implementation of the release turn cap provides, in which case please do explain it.


Improve the system, rather than concede to forced adaptation.

 

[MolagAmur]

The video shows that you in fact cannot turn 180 degrees while the turn cap is active, which is what you were claiming you could do.

As has been stated several times already, the turn cap makes it much more annoying to aim thrusts and overheads on moving targets due to the clunky feeling of suddenly having your sensitivity drop to 1% for one second.


No one has said it is completely crippling, or that it prevents you from being able to do anything. Simply that it is an annoyance.

Because of this annoyance, it is beneficial to question why it exists in the first place and to analyse it further, because if it can be changed to improve the game without losing anything, why would you not want that to happen?


Unless you are aware of some enormous benefit that this specific implementation of the release turn cap provides, in which case please do explain it.


Improve the system, rather than concede to forced adaptation.

I think thats the real issue...is if there is a change that people don't really feel effected by or it just doesn't bother them much so they think "sure its fine I don't care", rather than looking at the actual purpose and impact that the change will cause. I think its important to think about those things when giving feedback when trying to help shape a game.

(I'm not directing this to Eladriel by the way. He may have his reasoning, however he has yet to give it unless I missed it)

 

[Eldrath]

The video shows that you in fact cannot turn 180 degrees while the turn cap is active, which is what you were claiming you could do.

As has been stated several times already, the turn cap makes it much more annoying to aim thrusts and overheads on moving targets due to the clunky feeling of suddenly having your sensitivity drop to 1% for one second.


No one has said it is completely crippling, or that it prevents you from being able to do anything. Simply that it is an annoyance.

Because of this annoyance, it is beneficial to question why it exists in the first place and to analyse it further, because if it can be changed to improve the game without losing anything, why would you not want that to happen?


Unless you are aware of some enormous benefit that this specific implementation of the release turn cap provides, in which case please do explain it.


Improve the system, rather than concede to forced adaptation.

I start a swing, turn 180° (a half turn) and hit the target that was behind me. The turn cap is active while I´m doing that. Are you trolling me?

Also I stated multiple times that I don´t think it´s a very good solution. But I do mind you twisting facts to suit your narrative. There is a big difference between "I can not do this" to "This feels not very good".

I´m just doing the job of calling people out on their bullshit.

 

[Teknique]

I start a swing, turn 180° (a half turn) and hit the target that was behind me. The turn cap is active while I´m doing that. Are you trolling me?

Also I stated multiple times that I don´t think it´s a very good solution. But I do mind you twisting facts to suit your narrative. There is a big difference between "I can not do this" to "This feels not very good".

I´m just doing the job of calling people out on their bullshit.

Does it matter if people are smoking Nahuat or not? Point is there is a decel for 1 second, which just feels random.

 

[Valoran]

I start a swing, turn 180° (a half turn) and hit the target that was behind me. The turn cap is active while I´m doing that. Are you trolling me?

Also I stated multiple times that I don´t think it´s a very good solution. But I do mind you twisting facts to suit your narrative. There is a big difference between "I can not do this" to "This feels not very good".

I´m just doing the job of calling people out on their bullshit.

I would remind you that swinging from the sides with a sword to hit a stationary target is the best case scenario for this turn cap.

The side swinging animation finishes off screen as well.


Try reproducing that video but with a thrust instead.


I have not twisted any facts to suit a narrative, as my video shows it is indeed impossible to move more than a few degrees while the turn cap is active. Because the turn cap is only active for a very brief moment you are able to turn at normal speed before it activates and that is how you managed to turn around at all in your video.


This debate is becoming pointless, as we have already addressed the core problem thoroughly and it is now up to Starvault to decide if they want to tweak it.


Lastly, I would highly suggest refraining from being so aggressive with your wording and insulting in the future, as it is not productive in any way and only serves to murk the waters of civil discussion. Starting arguments in threads is also a surefire way to detract from and lose focus on the main point being made.

Unless that was your intention, food for thought.

 

[Teknique]

I would remind you that swinging from the sides with a sword to hit a stationary target is the best case scenario for this turn cap.

The side swinging animation finishes off screen as well.


Try reproducing that video but with a thrust instead.


I have not twisted any facts to suit a narrative, as my video shows it is indeed impossible to move more than a few degrees while the turn cap is active. Because the turn cap is only active for a very brief moment you are able to turn at normal speed before it activates and that is how you managed to turn around at all in your video.


This debate is becoming pointless, as we have already addressed the core problem thoroughly and it is now up to Starvault to decide if they want to tweak it.


Lastly, I would highly suggest refraining from being so aggressive with your wording and insulting in the future, as it is not productive in any way and only serves to murk the waters of civil discussion. Starting arguments in threads is also a surefire way to detract from and lose focus on the main point being made.

Unless that was your intention, food for thought.

I really don't understand what he's looking to accomplish.

Henrik is going to have to come and break my arms, or go to the United Nations and gets a fucking binding resolution to keep me from fucking making the game LOOK like MO 1, that doesn't mean that it is. All the while my heart grows angrier and all the more full of hatred. I was going to liberate Nave from the evil doers. Now my shadow threatens to plunge the entire world into darkness.

How much would these patches have to hurt the community to stop me from doing the thing i'm best at?

 

[ThaBadMan]

Wow ... maybe you should stop giving feedback then? So you want to the game to stop changing in ALPHA so you can get used to the the meta?

This actually explains a lot both from you and like minded people like thebadman. The fuck.



I´m not confusing anything. I am also tired of repeating myself to someone who claims that aiming and movement are not closely related in a shooter. I mean I can only tolerate a certain amount of bullshit.

Henrik stated that there will be another iteration in the next patch. I´m sure it´s not gonna be the last and I´m sure kids gonna cry about having to "adapt to a new meta". In alpha.?

You know wasting time with things you know wont work is futile ?
When you already know the outcome why even try a thing to hope for another outcome that wont happen ?
Alphas are not here for wasting valuable time testing and improving.

You know crying about "adapting to a new bullshit meta all the time while wasting testing time on crap" is imo lots better than the crowd that says "yes lets test anything retarded in case this one time in history it will yield a better result than all the times prior"

One crowd wants to be productive and effective and quickly make and test the final state and polish it to perfection, the other crowd wants to waste time testing shit changes that will have the same result as always but still want to waste time to test it for a week.

Now all MO1 players should know that restricting turning will fuck up so many playstyles present in MO and so far in MO2 and all other games like this, just movement in combat will be severly fucked and ruin better players plays.
Just like we all should know turning down speed on things make the game infinitely easier and lowers skill gap.
And that the slower you hit the easier it is to block and parry.

Things like this make changes have hard counters from players who know the outcome of retarded changes.

Now if things changed faster than weekly/biweekly it would be a better option to test more retarded changes, but imo with the limited patch times and highly limited testing time we have I dont see how we should focus on retarded changes rather than important changes.

Just because you dont have the foresight to see resluts from changes and can disregard any retarded change before hand is not the fault of us who can and will speak out against such idiocy.
Learn to test and give feedback rather than being a fanboi sheep. Gain knowledge rather than insult people you dont agree with.

Sadly most people want a game thats personally easy for them, rather than a hard game that forces you to spend long training hours to master...