It just feels terrible in my opinion. It's not intuitive at all and pretty frustrating to have your mouse sensivity abruptly slow down for like .3 seconds (which also happen to be the most important miliseconds to hit your opponent). The cons just vastly outweigh the small pros (what pros?). It doesn't prevent anything in its current state because it can be mitigated by using high dpi/sensivity
Suggestion - Change swing release slow down to be less restrictive
- Thread starter Valoran
- Start date
The turn cap was the thing that got applied in the first patch as soon as you started charging a hit, and now got changed to be permanent, as soon as you spin more than 360 degrees.
However, the slow down after releasing the swing has always been there, and it's reason is NOT to prevent spins.
In MO1 you could change direction while releasing, and people with spears abused it heavily to drag their spear once across their whole screen to get a hit, without actually needing to "thurst" at a certain position.
It's there to "blanace". Overhead strike hits only a straight line down. You're not supposed to use it on enemys that are in full movement (you could try, but it's hard to hit). If you allow free movement then you basically make a normal slash out of the overheadstrike.
And it's also there to make positioning more important. In MO2 handle hits of clubs, without proper position, reduce your DPS heavily. To get good DPS out of a mace you need to position in a proper distance to the enemy, and aim decently before releasing.
The time after the release is only supposed for small adjustments, and not to reposition the whole swing.
Bro the whole reason people even started doing that shit in the first place is because they never managed to fix handles hits within the 8 years. Like what are you even talking about? You still have to release the mouse in the exact spot you want the spear to go....then you would drag your mouse to try to prevent the handle hit. Explain your "balance"? And about the overhead strike...literally nobody used that in combat because it used a lot of stamina and it left you exposed. It sounds like you're just pulling stuff out of your ass and I'm not even trying to be rude.
Even if what you're saying is a thing...the fact still stands that its a flawed system and can be bypassed anyway. So really its just a hinderance.
Then maybe wait for beta. This combat alpha is all about changing the meta to test things.
We're not here to learn any meta, we're here to help make this game the best it can be.
You had handle hit issues with spears in MO1?
In MO2 overheadstrike is a normal attack, which uses the same stamina as a normal swing.
Everyone had major issues with spears and handle hits before the adjustments to the mesh that made them useable...then you had everyone running spear and shield. My point was that turning your camera after releasing an attack allowed you to prevent the mesh of the handle from hitting the player. This was the case with most long weapons. It wasn't some easy mode exploit or whatever you're implying where you could just drag it across the screen and hit anyone.
And yes I agree with the overhead thing in MO2. I thought we were still talking about MO1 with the wording of that paragraph.
I promise you the purpose isn’t to make random changes that don’t follow logic.
The difference is that quake has a massive amount of inertia, making it easily possible to calculate exactly where someone will be in a fraction of a second as their range of possible movements is very low within a short period of time, unlike in mortal.
Throughout the duration that the turn cap in question is applied, you are unable to move more than a few degrees. I think you might be confusing the pre swing stage with what i'm talking about here, as you cannot 180 while being affected by this turncap regardless of your sensitivity or DPI.
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I am aware that what I am talking about has been in game since day one, which is why I singled out the one patch phase that it was not present in my comparison.
The turn cap in question does exist to prevent spins, as Henrik has explicitly said so in the past. It exists to prevent what he called "Clown spins" which was apparently prevalent in MO1, although I would disagree.
As always, the question should not be "Why can't you simply adapt to the new system?"
but rather
"Why was the system implemented in the first place, does it achieve what it set out to, and does it do so in a way that does not negatively impact other areas of the game which outweigh the pros?"
To answer this question:
1. We know this specific turn cap was implemented to prevent spinning 180 degrees while releasing a swing.
2. For this purpose it does indeed achieve what it set out to achieve.
3. Does it do so in a way that does not negatively impact the game in ways such that the cons outweigh the pros?
The current amount of slow down applied during the swing release does indeed cause combat to feel clunky and not smooth when compared to MO1 which does not have this turn cap.
Because of this, I do believe that the cons outweigh the pros for the current implementation.
An easy tweak that would go a long way to improving this would simply be to make the turn cap more relaxed.
Note that I did not say to remove it completely, as I do agree with the initial intention of preventing 180 spins while releasing a swing.
An alternate solution as given in my original post, is to make the turn cap apply from the moment you begin charging a swing, and stay consistent throughout the whole process until the swing is finished.
Obviously the degree of turn cap applied is the crucial component here, and the area that requires feedback in order to iterate successfully into an acceptable state.
but rather
"Why was the system implemented in the first place, does it achieve what it set out to, and does it do so in a way that does not negatively impact other areas of the game which outweigh the pros?"
To answer this question:
1. We know this specific turn cap was implemented to prevent spinning 180 degrees while releasing a swing.
2. For this purpose it does indeed achieve what it set out to achieve.
3. Does it do so in a way that does not negatively impact the game in ways such that the cons outweigh the pros?
The current amount of slow down applied during the swing release does indeed cause combat to feel clunky and not smooth when compared to MO1 which does not have this turn cap.
Because of this, I do believe that the cons outweigh the pros for the current implementation.
An easy tweak that would go a long way to improving this would simply be to make the turn cap more relaxed.
Note that I did not say to remove it completely, as I do agree with the initial intention of preventing 180 spins while releasing a swing.
An alternate solution as given in my original post, is to make the turn cap apply from the moment you begin charging a swing, and stay consistent throughout the whole process until the swing is finished.
Obviously the degree of turn cap applied is the crucial component here, and the area that requires feedback in order to iterate successfully into an acceptable state.
We dont really know the full extent of the cap tho. You probably have low sens thats why it feels so slow to you, it was the same with the first iteration of the pre swing turn cap.
Important distinction this isn’t chivalry or mordhau where you die in 1-2 shots. Not only is a spin easy enough to block it’s not fatal and you have ample time to adjust.
This is a mistake on so many levels. Similar to how they broke all events and underground demon spawn with hive mind as a gross over reaction to something that wasn’t even a problem.
Or how they made the breeding awful for new players without fixing anything about horses.
Or how they broke the tc system with unkillable guilds, unreachable towers, buffs to guards. For what, clown boulders?
Enough sv, you said you would stop this nonsense and the game hasn’t even been released yet and here we are breaking the game at the behest of a few complainers refusing to git guder.
This is a mistake on so many levels. Similar to how they broke all events and underground demon spawn with hive mind as a gross over reaction to something that wasn’t even a problem.
Or how they made the breeding awful for new players without fixing anything about horses.
Or how they broke the tc system with unkillable guilds, unreachable towers, buffs to guards. For what, clown boulders?
Enough sv, you said you would stop this nonsense and the game hasn’t even been released yet and here we are breaking the game at the behest of a few complainers refusing to git guder.
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Then you should be also aware that Henrik explicitly talked about the turn cap, which got implemented later, due to players complaining about spins and not about the one you're talking about.
"Henrik
19.08.2020
We are evaluating and testing turn cap in house on charge to prevent hiding spin game"
"Henrik
30.08.2020
yeah, itsd tricky we will see how the turn cap feels next first"
"Henrik19.08.2020
But we are@looking to test a cap turn on charge"
"Shimmering19.08.2020
So is full release tommorow?"
Edit: Looking at those quotes about it should be pretty clear he talked about the turn cap which got implemented somewhen in August, and not on the thing that has been ingame since day 1.
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The turn cap does still slow you down mid swing. Doing a really fast flick you’ll notice you get some resistance
It was specifically for preventing clown spins, but it obviously didnt work or had any impact at all since players usually spin before they release the swing not after
So it was pretty much a useless addition that serves no purpose now
Yes, here he is discussing the charging turn cap.
I am of course talking about the separate release turn cap which he also explicitly stated was to mitigate spinning, as has already been shown by Chingaperros.