[Suggestion] Add a kick or nerf parry

[AF]Tyrone

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Dec 17, 2020
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Usually in melee games you get a kick to block/stun someone who is being a parry hoe. MO2 needs that ASAP(or nerf parry baiting).

signed,

Affluent Tyrone
 
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sigrace

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Dec 10, 2020
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I’m not well versed in melee yet. What do you mean by parry baiting? I’ve seen feinting (Using ctrl to cancel an attack) to bait an incorrect block.
 

[AF]Tyrone

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Dec 17, 2020
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Its a defensive play style that can't be overcome, because you can't get around blocks.

The person just stands there and waits for you to attack them, and if you attack them you give them an instant return swing.

There is no mechanical way to get around the defensive player besides walking away.
 

Keurk

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in MO1 you did have damage dealt trought parries mostly depending on the blunt and weight of the attacker weapons. A sword would deal minimal damage, but a big maul could hit for solid damage, forcing opponent to only do some parries and adapt a different stance.
Stun is a bad idea imo cause it would prevent proper kiting against multiples opponent.
 
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[AF]Tyrone

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Dec 17, 2020
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in MO1 you did have damage dealt trought parries mostly depending on the blunt and weight of the attacker weapons. A sword would deal minimal damage, but a big maul could hit for solid damage, forcing opponent to only do some parries and adapt a different stance.
Stun is a bad idea imo cause it would prevent proper kiting against multiples opponent.
Anything is better than the current setup
 
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Apocryphal

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I honestly still believe 0 dmg should never be a thing. Make all weapons do some dmg through blocks. Make the damage a counter swing does through a block/parry be the same as a normal swing would.
Then you immediatly force people to not just play defensively, and you dont have to introduce an awkward stun like system.
 

Bicorps

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Jun 27, 2020
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Usually in melee games you get a kick to block/stun someone who is being a parry hoe. MO2 needs that ASAP(or nerf parry baiting).

signed,

Affluent Tyrone
There is an obvious problem with the combat system but I think you guys should just wait. StarVault is releasing the game in around 3 month and they need to add some basic feature to the game so it can become "Playable" in some way. At the end even if its a "pingpong" parry whore game at release it will probably not stay like it for ever. They need to add feature to a point that the game can be sold and people wont quit the first week because the game is pointless.

Im not saying that is not an important subject but I just think its not the time for it. They already spend a lot of time in the Melee combat and it could go on for ever.


Its also causing some problem community wise. People get pretty salty and I feel its because they dont understand each other because its hard to explain everything on a forum.
 

Handsome Young Man

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Jun 13, 2020
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I've said this before.

Blunt light weapons (Sword-like weapons, or spears) should do no chip damage.

Blunt medium weapons (Like axes) should do some chip damage.

Blunt heavy weapons (Clubs, maces, etc.) should do chip damage.

It was like that in MO1 and it gave weapons more distinguished traits. Right now using axes, clubs, etc. is a gimp in my eyes personally because realistically you trade a worse hitbox for slightly more damage.

Combat should be faster. Both swinging and charging - along with actual movement speed.

Then, yeah. We need more offensive options.
 

[AF]Tyrone

Member
Dec 17, 2020
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There is an obvious problem with the combat system but I think you guys should just wait. StarVault is releasing the game in around 3 month and they need to add some basic feature to the game so it can become "Playable" in some way. At the end even if its a "pingpong" parry whore game at release it will probably not stay like it for ever. They need to add feature to a point that the game can be sold and people wont quit the first week because the game is pointless.

Im not saying that is not an important subject but I just think its not the time for it. They already spend a lot of time in the Melee combat and it could go on for ever.


Its also causing some problem community wise. People get pretty salty and I feel its because they dont understand each other because its hard to explain everything on a forum.

I thought this was the combat alpha until persistence came out? I feel like they really need to nail it before that happens.
 
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Bicorps

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I thought this was the combat alpha until persistence came out? I feel like they really need to nail it before that happens.
Its true but you guys gonna have to realized at some point that if the game become persistent and dont have some basic feature that actually give a point to the game, people wont stay for long and might not come back when the game get theses feature patch that give a point to the game. even if the combat is PERFECTO, and it will never be perfect trust me. We all hope they nail it tho. little thing can do big difference sometime.

I would not talk about it if Starvault was not limited on time and money wise.

I think the best bet they can do is trying to keep most of the people that will connect on release. For at least 3 month. Because its a Subscribtion game and if people dont enjoy it from the beguining they will probably wont re-sub before a long time and everyone know that Less people in-game mean EVEN MORE LESS people in to the game, its a snowball reaction.... people dont logg-in into an empty MMO game.
 
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sigrace

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Dec 10, 2020
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Yeah, I think there's still a ways to go for combat. We still don't have the other aspects of it (Mounts, Magic, Pets, ETC) so we're really only looking at this from the 'honorable' melee 1v1 and occasional mob brawl.

More on topic and my 2 cents:

It seems like there are 3 things that should determine how much damage a weapon should do: Hands, Weight, and Damage type.
Two handed weapons, heavy, blunted weapons should be the winners when dealing damage through a parry.
One handed, light, slashing damage should do the least. (Piercing seems like it should be in the middle somewhere to me.)

If this system were to go through, there should also be something to negate damage from the side of the person doing the parry.
There are 3 weapon attributes that seem like they would modify this: Shield, Hands, and Weight.
A person with a heavy shield is going to be able to negate a lot of damage, while a person with a large two hander can negate a bit and a light one hander should focus on dodging.

-------------
A little off the topic

There was a double tap mini leap dodge in mortal online that I liked (don't know if you could rebind or not).

I don't know if this is in game now, but if someone swings and misses, there should be a small moment before they can do something else. Swinging a big sword with the intention of hitting something then missing should give the player who dodged the chance to retaliate. All this depending on the size/weight/handedness of the weapon the opponent missed with. Maybe there already is there and I just haven't noticed.
 

Handsome Young Man

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Jun 13, 2020
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Just something to tack on about one handed and two handed weapons.

One handed weapons are still shit like they were in MO1 outside of daggers. Axes, swords, and maces one handed are absolutely terrible. (Spears aren't one handed, they are the only two handed allowed with a shield equip.)

Want one hands to be competitive? They need to be faster and take way less stam then one handers; but then balance out the little stam usage by making the shield have a higher stam usage upon block / parry.
 
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Rorry

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I heard a rumor that SV was testing a new combat system on the internal test server.
 

bubbles

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Jul 1, 2020
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Just something to tack on about one handed and two handed weapons.

One handed weapons are still shit like they were in MO1 outside of daggers. Axes, swords, and maces one handed are absolutely terrible. (Spears aren't one handed, they are the only two handed allowed with a shield equip.)

Want one hands to be competitive? They need to be faster and take way less stam then one handers; but then balance out the little stam usage by making the shield have a higher stam usage upon block / parry.
Or u know.. remove the stamina penalty for swinging 1 handers if you don't have a shield equipped. 2 handed weapons cost 35% less stamina to use and I don't see why we couldn't apply that logic to 1 handers without shields
 

Houseypooh

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Dec 10, 2020
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I honestly still believe 0 dmg should never be a thing. Make all weapons do some dmg through blocks. Make the damage a counter swing does through a block/parry be the same as a normal swing would.
Then you immediatly force people to not just play defensively, and you dont have to introduce an awkward stun like system.
What are you referring to as a normal swing? There are currently 3 that I'm aware of. Click/instant release, click/let reticle fill up, and click/let reticle fill up and blink. Each does progressively more damage than the one preceding it. If they implement a system where a counter attack is no more advantageous than a 'regular attack' and striking through a parry still does damage, then they've implemented a system that encourages spamming attacks and trading hits.

Currently, when blocking, there is some hidden timer that makes one vulnerable to damage the longer the block is held. Against defensive players I will sometimes try to charge an attack to bait their block and then strike once they've held it for longer than usual. IIRC this is an identical blocking mechanic to Mount & Blade and a functional discount version of the Chivalry/Mordhau block mechanic. In the latter, pressing block will shield one with their weapon for only an instant. Similarly, a successful parry/block in this way would offer the defender a functionally faster 'counter attack'. This mechanic doesn't funnel players into a defensive meta but rather encourages precision blocking while also creating opportunities for feinting and parry baiting from the aggressor.

In MO, my opinion would be to significantly reduce the parry timer so that striking through somebody spam blocking becomes much more reliable. This encourages aggression and discourages turtling. To further modify the operant behavior of attacking/defending, stamina drain could be attached to maintaining a block while still having a faster or stronger attack after a parry. This encourages precision blocking and further discourages turtling.
 

[AF]Tyrone

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Dec 17, 2020
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Please henrik, save us from the defensive meta. Its boring and makes the baddies capable of withstanding the onslaught of real men.