Stand and Deliver!

[Dracu]

I can see nothing wrong with this tbh... This is a good thing for the bandits and should prove their gameplay by alot. The blue playstyle should suffer no difference.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Really simple suggestion. You implement a mechanic where players have a hotkeyable action of "Stand and Deliver!" aiming at a player and activating this requires the target to stop moving and do a /droploot within a short timeframe of 5-10 seconds.

If they do not comply they are flagged to the bandit. They are also flagged if they pick up any of their own loot within a minute of activating it. When a flagged player is killed the bandit still receives a reputation loss with the local faction but cannot receive a murder count. The bandit also receives a reputation loss with the local faction for looting the dropped loot (but not for opening it and deciding not to loot).

The simple premise behind it is this encourages healthy PvP. Banditry IS healthy for a game that promises a brutal PvP-focused world. It provides both PvP content and a challenge for traders which many traders seek and enjoy. There is still some consequence via the reputation system but bandits can still use blue priests and even operate out of the territory of an opposing faction (For instance Khurite bandits raiding Tindremic areas and still living in Khurite blue towns.)

This suggestion would pair very well with a true trade system but also would enhance the game in it's current state with no additional changes.

What would this do for people besides conditioning player conflict? People can already steal without killing, by typing or using voip, doing non deadly dmg so the ítem deletion timer doesn't wear off.

Is people that lazy that instead of Rob just kill? Sometimes and i'd say most of the times for most people, stealing from them would be the same as killing them, by the loss of gear-resources in the specific place they are or they are going to.

I get this Is suggested for minimizing the death component but it really doesn't dos much for the víctims, It's a little condescending to add a mechanic to rob them better when instead there should be better learning curve so players can actually learn the game and learn to deal with those situations.

I myself will allways prefer social interaction to happen on It's own. I'd even say that the punishment itself for murderers instead of detrimental for noob killing/griefing ends up encouraging that shit because it causes the opposite effect on the affected players.

People shouldn't be able to delete ítems but instead throw them away, thats how the deleting shit would be fixed but mortal Is not designwd for players to generate so many drop ítems in the world so i doubt it could endure but maybe a miracle Is possible.

Im sorry but i don't like it, i wanna see players do shit by themselves and not relay on that kind of mechanics to do shit for them.
And i honestly rather see a lot of other things added into the game instead.

Idk in the mainstream gaming industry people Is so used to literal one way road questline type of games, the dumb down component people require because they are unable to do it, or unaware they can.
Which leads me to think many of the noobs and solos problematics are more learning curve related rather than actual murderers being unforgiving because they wont steal, instead will kill.

 

[Jatix]

Being red is harsh. Most players cant be red but the game forces you to go red if you engage in consensual PvP.

Its not that being red is easier, because its not. Its that the rep/murder system is trash and chains down people to willfully hold them selves back in order to stay in town as a blue player.

The core issue is that they removed most red camps and didn't launch the game with Tc liek they needed to. When people can just live out of their guild TC, parcel runs and staying blue is going to stop for 70% of players. And jungle and cave camp should have been made into fully livable red towns. Not been turned into blue priest camps. But this game's direction is crap so they want red to be unplayable even though its a core part of the game, and why half of us play.

 

[Kaemik]

Really?
Or maybe its impossible to defend your stupid position aimed to avoid responsibility for your actions.

Dude. I'm a trader, not a bandit. I wouldn't use this mechanic if it were available. I want it because bandits enhance MY gameplay by providing challenges and because I think it's good for the game for bandits to be encouraged to hunt traders instead of newbs.

Nah dude. You just can't flipping read, or have no ability to comprehend what you are reading. Keeping the rep loss but losing the murder count is in no way the same thing as bandits just flagging people grey. For one thing, if you did it in a guarded area the guards would attack you as a bandit.

Literally, the only difference is not getting a murder count. So if you understand what has been written multiple times, understand how this game actually works, and are still calling it bandits "flagging people grey" you're engaging in hyperbole on a level as to render your input without any value.

 

[Kaemik]

What would this do for people besides conditioning player conflict? People can already steal without killing, by typing or using voip, doing non deadly dmg so the ítem deletion timer doesn't wear off.

It makes this dramatically simpler and gives some benefits to them for doing so as opposed to outright murder. Because none of the methods in right now are actually getting used.

 

[Kaquenqos]

I can see nothing wrong with this tbh... This is a good thing for the bandits and should prove their gameplay by alot. The blue playstyle should suffer no difference.

What exactly is the blue playstyle? Blue players are free to RPK & loot just like 'bandits', and gain absolutely no advantage from refraining from doing so. In fact, being blue you can act in even more morally bad ways, for example you can bomb otherwise non-RPK players' rep/MK just for defending themselves... This is the inherent flaw to the game, and what ensures any system designed at creating a semblance of order, deterring griefing, or creating a 'lawful vs unlawful' dichotomy to gameplay will fail. It's a bad mechanic that fails at all of its objectives. They have sacrificed parts of the PvP content to ostensibly deter griefing with this system, but the system does next to nothing to deter grief while also making the game less enjoyable for criminals. The mechanics surrounding RPK do not allow for any other playstyle than 'bandit'. There are just bandits that are allowed in cities and can use blue priests because they make deliveries and wait out MC, and bandits who are not allowed because they don't bother. That's the only distinction this game allows for with these mechanics.

For what it's worth, I think this mechanic (Stand and Deliver) is a fun idea, but it does nothing to address this fundamental flaw in the concept of law in the game. Instead, being built atop the broken RPK mechanics, much like bounty hunting, it will always be inherently flawed. The current RPK mechanics fail miserably at any attempt to distinguish law-abider & criminal. We need mechanics that actually serve to delineate just from unjust killings, as currently there is effectively none. People can justly kill someone in some instances and still receive a MC/rep-hit and 4min 'criminal' status, essentially suffering the same consequences that somebody who deliberately griefs noobs periodically outside city-limits endures. As long as they both wait out MCs and keep their standings high, the game makes no distinction between these two actions, let alone between someone who never RPKs even once, and someone who does countless times while using the bunk rep/MC system.

While this would be an interesting mechanic, and might add some flavor to the broken MC/criminal mechanics, it will ultimately still be held back by the underlying mechanical flop that is the RPK system, which clearly fails to meet any of its intended objectives. The MC flag system on its own is bad, but its arbitrary nature is compounded exponentially by the horrendous rep system. There needs to be a better system that encourages PvP and allows for people to RPK freely if they choose, but also makes a meaningful distinctions between serial-RPKers and lawful players, ie. giving lawful players meaningful mechanics to reward them for offering resistance/hunting/intentionally engaging RPKers. If all of the PvP has to fall back on these two arbitrary systems and their tedious consequences, there will never be any meaningful difference between 'outlaw' and 'lawful', and the game will never be approachable.

I have almost nothing good to say about the mechanics surrounding RPK, re: flagging/rep/MK. This is a huge issue as this is an integral mechanic that affects almost every aspect of the game, at least indirectly. It's the keystone mechanic and it's completely broken, and apparently not being addressed. It seems like they half fleshed out their idea, it didn't work, so they just left it in a broken state and moved on to other things. I'd love to see this game succeed critically & popularly, and this absolute mess of a mechanic is what will prevent it from doing so.

TL;DR:
The current mechanics surrounding PvP/RPK/MC/flagging/rep are so miserably implemented that I can't imagine anything dogpiled on top of it being worthwhile. The current system completely fails at arbitrating just killings from murder, and the only consequence it even offers in the rare instance that it does is to make the person have to grind rep or wait out a timer, or suffer the loss of access to local towns and blue spawnpoints... This is an indefensibly bad system. It just makes the game more boring for hardcore PvPers, and does nothing to actually protect PvErs or new players. This system needs to be overhauled. Almost anything is better than this. This should be top priority.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

It makes this dramatically simpler and gives some benefits to them for doing so as opposed to outright murder. Because none of the methods in right now are actually getting used.

What makes you think that feature will be used, as far as i can think of theres just a handfull of things you could do after getting robbed, in the sense that you can't regear in the wilderness, so it would be almost the same as getting killed, this may benefit naked getting killed in the wilderness which to be honest ain't a big deal in the first place.

I also don't understand why would you make drastically simpler something that already Is, people doesn't do it cuz when you talk people can delete shit. But it's simple, i've robbed a lot of people in MO1 and MO2, sometimes people will agree to get robbed and only because they aint carrying much others would just try to escape.

I'm sorry but i don't see the real utility of this nor i like these type of automated actions i find it best for the game to give tools for players to interact as diegetically as possible. I prefer much more to hear someone in voip or see chat, telling me to droploot or die i prefer people deal with that scenario instead of clicking on a Button that would make the víctim have an emergent window saying he's getting robbed.

I feel theres a lot of other things regarding risk-reward and combat balance that should have the spotlight, i don't consider this will have a real impact and i don't like that kind of automation when interacting with other players and specially in conflict.

 

[Gulith]

WTF ... if you put a gun on someone's head to rob him, and he doesn't comply ... then you are not a murderer for killing him?
That's literally retarded.
And that's not exploitable at all! Just spam the crap in anyfight, you'll never have a murder count ...
Terrible carebear red idea. To promote pvp, when need content to fight over period.

what this could do instead is making a button pop instead, explaining the choice, so noobs don't have to type '/droploot' ... without being invasive visually ofc, for abuser. And this would go over bad mic / language barrier.

 

[Gladiator]

It wont work. 99% of people you meet as a Bandit will just run away from you. You dont have the luxury of asking to attack, you have to act quick, or they get away.

 

[Dracu]

What exactly is the blue playstyle? Blue players are free to RPK & loot just like 'bandits', and gain absolutely no advantage from refraining from doing so. In fact, being blue you can act in even more morally bad ways, for example you can bomb otherwise non-RPK players' rep/MK just for defending themselves... This is the inherent flaw to the game, and what ensures any system designed at creating a semblance of order, deterring griefing, or creating a 'lawful vs unlawful' dichotomy to gameplay will fail. It's a bad mechanic that fails at all of its objectives. They have sacrificed parts of the PvP content to ostensibly deter griefing with this system, but the system does next to nothing to deter grief while also making the game less enjoyable for criminals. The mechanics surrounding RPK do not allow for any other playstyle than 'bandit'. There are just bandits that are allowed in cities and can use blue priests because they make deliveries and wait out MC, and bandits who are not allowed because they don't bother. That's the only distinction this game allows for with these mechanics.

For what it's worth, I think this mechanic (Stand and Deliver) is a fun idea, but it does nothing to address this fundamental flaw in the concept of law in the game. Instead, being built atop the broken RPK mechanics, much like bounty hunting, it will always be inherently flawed. The current RPK mechanics fail miserably at any attempt to distinguish law-abider & criminal. We need mechanics that actually serve to delineate just from unjust killings, as currently there is effectively none. People can justly kill someone in some instances and still receive a MC/rep-hit and 4min 'criminal' status, essentially suffering the same consequences that somebody who deliberately griefs noobs periodically outside city-limits endures. As long as they both wait out MCs and keep their standings high, the game makes no distinction between these two actions, let alone between someone who never RPKs even once, and someone who does countless times while using the bunk rep/MC system.

While this would be an interesting mechanic, and might add some flavor to the broken MC/criminal mechanics, it will ultimately still be held back by the underlying mechanical flop that is the RPK system, which clearly fails to meet any of its intended objectives. The MC flag system on its own is bad, but its arbitrary nature is compounded exponentially by the horrendous rep system. There needs to be a better system that encourages PvP and allows for people to RPK freely if they choose, but also makes a meaningful distinctions between serial-RPKers and lawful players, ie. giving lawful players meaningful mechanics to reward them for offering resistance/hunting/intentionally engaging RPKers. If all of the PvP has to fall back on these two arbitrary systems and their tedious consequences, there will never be any meaningful difference between 'outlaw' and 'lawful', and the game will never be approachable.

I have almost nothing good to say about the mechanics surrounding RPK, re: flagging/rep/MK. This is a huge issue as this is an integral mechanic that affects almost every aspect of the game, at least indirectly. It's the keystone mechanic and it's completely broken, and apparently not being addressed. It seems like they half fleshed out their idea, it didn't work, so they just left it in a broken state and moved on to other things. I'd love to see this game succeed critically & popularly, and this absolute mess of a mechanic is what will prevent it from doing so.

TL;DR:
The current mechanics surrounding PvP/RPK/MC/flagging/rep are so miserably implemented that I can't imagine anything dogpiled on top of it being worthwhile. The current system completely fails at arbitrating just killings from murder, and the only consequence it even offers in the rare instance that it does is to make the person have to grind rep or wait out a timer, or suffer the loss of access to local towns and blue spawnpoints... This is an indefensibly bad system. It just makes the game more boring for hardcore PvPers, and does nothing to actually protect PvErs or new players. This system needs to be overhauled. Almost anything is better than this. This should be top priority.

Fair point^^

 

[Gulith]

what it could be instead is a skill, which would triger a droploot popup on someone you mercied ... it would only work on mercied people ofc.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

What exactly is the blue playstyle? Blue players are free to RPK & loot just like 'bandits', and gain absolutely no advantage from refraining from doing so. In fact, being blue you can act in even more morally bad ways, for example you can bomb otherwise non-RPK players' rep/MK just for defending themselves... This is the inherent flaw to the game, and what ensures any system designed at creating a semblance of order, deterring griefing, or creating a 'lawful vs unlawful' dichotomy to gameplay will fail. It's a bad mechanic that fails at all of its objectives. They have sacrificed parts of the PvP content to ostensibly deter griefing with this system, but the system does next to nothing to deter grief while also making the game less enjoyable for criminals. The mechanics surrounding RPK do not allow for any other playstyle than 'bandit'. There are just bandits that are allowed in cities and can use blue priests because they make deliveries and wait out MC, and bandits who are not allowed because they don't bother. That's the only distinction this game allows for with these mechanics.

For what it's worth, I think this mechanic (Stand and Deliver) is a fun idea, but it does nothing to address this fundamental flaw in the concept of law in the game. Instead, being built atop the broken RPK mechanics, much like bounty hunting, it will always be inherently flawed. The current RPK mechanics fail miserably at any attempt to distinguish law-abider & criminal. We need mechanics that actually serve to delineate just from unjust killings, as currently there is effectively none. People can justly kill someone in some instances and still receive a MC/rep-hit and 4min 'criminal' status, essentially suffering the same consequences that somebody who deliberately griefs noobs periodically outside city-limits endures. As long as they both wait out MCs and keep their standings high, the game makes no distinction between these two actions, let alone between someone who never RPKs even once, and someone who does countless times while using the bunk rep/MC system.

While this would be an interesting mechanic, and might add some flavor to the broken MC/criminal mechanics, it will ultimately still be held back by the underlying mechanical flop that is the RPK system, which clearly fails to meet any of its intended objectives. The MC flag system on its own is bad, but its arbitrary nature is compounded exponentially by the horrendous rep system. There needs to be a better system that encourages PvP and allows for people to RPK freely if they choose, but also makes a meaningful distinctions between serial-RPKers and lawful players, ie. giving lawful players meaningful mechanics to reward them for offering resistance/hunting/intentionally engaging RPKers. If all of the PvP has to fall back on these two arbitrary systems and their tedious consequences, there will never be any meaningful difference between 'outlaw' and 'lawful', and the game will never be approachable.

I have almost nothing good to say about the mechanics surrounding RPK, re: flagging/rep/MK. This is a huge issue as this is an integral mechanic that affects almost every aspect of the game, at least indirectly. It's the keystone mechanic and it's completely broken, and apparently not being addressed. It seems like they half fleshed out their idea, it didn't work, so they just left it in a broken state and moved on to other things. I'd love to see this game succeed critically & popularly, and this absolute mess of a mechanic is what will prevent it from doing so.

TL;DR:
The current mechanics surrounding PvP/RPK/MC/flagging/rep are so miserably implemented that I can't imagine anything dogpiled on top of it being worthwhile. The current system completely fails at arbitrating just killings from murder, and the only consequence it even offers in the rare instance that it does is to make the person have to grind rep or wait out a timer, or suffer the loss of access to local towns and blue spawnpoints... This is an indefensibly bad system. It just makes the game more boring for hardcore PvPers, and does nothing to actually protect PvErs or new players. This system needs to be overhauled. Almost anything is better than this. This should be top priority.

I disagree to dumb down the game under the premise of conditioning player interaction even more. To put the game in that small box and pretend all players are dogs and give em treats when they do what they are supposed to.
That gaming model is absolute ass and idk why they keep pushing it. Idk if these guys actually followed some moronic advice from a clueless cunt or what.

To be honest here the strongest asset this game has is player interaction under their rules.
So if the strongest content the game has is that why condition, narrow and mistakenly add layers and layers of detrimental timesink moronic punishments, why not address solo or minor groups and zergs combat balance, why not address nublets learning curve and the environment itself.

Development should be almost completly directed to generate a healthy environment for players to interact.

Theres so many plain and simple stupid people that keep asking for better punishments, even "pretended murderers".

Then if players are the true assets, the true organic content generator thats strongest than any bounty hunter pile of dog ass patch, why condition and frame that organic environment that should be extended and encouraged and expanded in terms of player liberties.

One thing for sure if the game had no law outside cities but they handed good content (not placeholder crap like bounty hunter) the game would probably be more thriving than it is now, all those mechanics do not folow a logic, does no connect with the concept of the game and it doesn't work for players.

They have spent so much development time fucking up criminal playstyle under the whole concept of "nerfing" or "making worse" under the illusion the game needs more punishment, and thats probably because they read moronic 12 year old steam simpletons that dont have the brain to understand the concept of the game.

When the game should have an additive and positive approach. Positive reinforcement in psychology is the way to go yo encourage shit, if they wanted to condition the game to go somewhere.
Not a retarded automated murdercount a noob gives when getting zerged, like if that murdercount was supposed to be enough "justice" for the noob and enough punishment for the criminal.

People asked for more punishments and they got it, wanna bet the people that asked for that doesn't even play anymore.