Revert the Pet Changes Please They Are Horrible. Details Down Below. Criticism: From a BeastMaster.....

[Valoran]

There is a area to tame young level white bears. But Breeding isn't in the game yet, so taming something low level doesn't exactly have much purpose at the moment.

The purpose is that it's easy to tame the young one, while being difficult if not impossible in the future to tame a high level one.

 

[Tzone]

Of course I agree that making something harder to get is not enough to make something balanced, but it is a huge factor and does contribute to whether or not something is balanced.

Take oghmium for example, an set of oghmium armor has almost 100% pierce and slash resistance, and is balanced by it taking a long time to make along with having simple counters such as magic and if you're on foot, stamina management.

If everyone could buy oghmium from a vendor it would be extremely broken compared to now, with the only difference there being ease of access.


When the only way to obtain a white bear or any strong pet is to tame it while young and train it up, they will be used less frequently and it will take longer to get them to a usable state.

Combine this with the coming pet combat changes and it might be balanced, but its obviously not done yet.

The player has to actually play despite wearing ogh. Jut wearing ogh doesnt make you auto win. If you are a trash player in ogh that ogh will be long to someone else. Also magic just negates what ever High end armor you may have. Anyone can counter your ogh by playing better then you. People can parry all your attacks, and do feint and morphs to get damage in.

With what SV has said so far with their plans, I am not optimistic that pets will be properly balanced. Sound like what they have always done to mitigate bad balance instead of actually balance it.

 

[Dracu]

I dont really understand why everything has to be such a slog to get. No idea where that is fun for anyone involved unless you are one of the 1% that enjoy this boring rng or busy work. Is it that hard to make it skill based? Whats the balance guy doing? Is this a pvp game or a life simulator

 

[Teknique]

Of course I agree that making something harder to get is not enough to make something balanced, but it is a huge factor and does contribute to whether or not something is balanced.

Take oghmium for example, an set of oghmium armor has almost 100% pierce and slash resistance, and is balanced by it taking a long time to make along with having simple counters such as magic and if you're on foot, stamina management.

If everyone could buy oghmium from a vendor it would be extremely broken compared to now, with the only difference there being ease of access.


When the only way to obtain a white bear or any strong pet is to tame it while young and train it up, they will be used less frequently and it will take longer to get them to a usable state.

Combine this with the coming pet combat changes and it might be balanced, but its obviously not done yet.

Pets already had the time investment of having to go and get them and then transport it back.

Obviously time investment like you're saying is part of the balance

but no one cares about the time investment as you've seen here for a couple of reasons

1) Death Knights had a ridiculously high time investment and it didn't feel as if it mattered in the slightest for the over all balance

2) Increasing the time investment actually is MORE justification for them to be OP in the eyes of beastmasters

3) Gives the class less accessibility to be countered by people using the build as a meme.


and my own point

4) This comes at a huge cost to the player experience for newer and casual players who almost invariably want to play tamers

I think most people think like me and see the increased time investment as the worst possible solution because it means pets will likely stay OP and taming will just be completely unenjoyable to actually play.

Edit: Also destroys the variability of builds because some builds would be a balance of how good the pet is and how easy it is to get.

if all pets are equally hard to get then you will obviously just always get the best one that you can.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Pets already had the time investment of having to go and get them and then transport it back.

Obviously time investment like you're saying is part of the balance

but no one cares about the time investment as you've seen here for a couple of reasons

1) Death Knights had a ridiculously high time investment and it didn't feel as if it mattered in the slightest for the over all balance

2) Increasing the time investment actually is MORE justification for them to be OP in the eyes of beastmasters

3) Gives the class less accessibility to be countered by people using the build as a meme.


and my own point

4) This comes at a huge cost to the player experience for newer and casual players who almost invariably want to play tamers

I think most people think like me and see the increased time investment as the worst possible solution because it means pets will likely stay OP and taming will just be completely unenjoyable to actually play.

Edit: Also destroys the variability of builds because some builds would be a balance of how good the pet is and how easy it is to get.

if all pets are equally hard to get then you will obviously just always get the best one that you can.

Id say it should be alittle different.
Its not like I spend 2 months to get a suit and weapon of Ogh and that suit and weapon plays for me better then I can play myself.

Time investment should be like making Ogh, spend ages and gain something useless unless your good enough to have use from it.

Now imagine if a White bear would tear tamers face off in seconds like they do to Ogh wearing super soldiers.
I would also add that you should have to stand up in its face and any interruption should auto fail the taming as in you or it gets dmg, you move away, turn to quickly etc.
Now that would warrant White bears to be as good as they are currently oh how tamers would cry rivers

 

[Teknique]

Id say it should be alittle different.
Its not like I spend 2 months to get a suit and weapon of Ogh and that suit and weapon plays for me better then I can play myself.

Time investment should be like making Ogh, spend ages and gain something useless unless your good enough to have use from it.

Now imagine if a White bear would tear tamers face off in seconds like they do to Ogh wearing super soldiers.
I would also add that you should have to stand up in its face and any interruption should auto fail the taming as in you or it gets dmg, you move away, turn to quickly etc.
Now that would warrant White bears to be as good as they are currently oh how tamers would cry rivers

yeah I think the time investment should be similar to crafting a sword or suit of armor. Anything that increases the interaction a beast master has to do with their pet would be good. A small attack window for pets, maybe resetting attack commands often.

Ideally a BM could own if you land all your hits, but thats the kicker you have to land all your hits.

My ideas on taming are reduce the damage tames do to players so that they only add marginal dps.

Give tames utility skills, like the spider queen pull from mo 1

make those utility skills an aimed cast.

 

[Tzone]

yeah I think the time investment should be similar to crafting a sword or suit of armor. Anything that increases the interaction a beast master has to do with their pet would be good. A small attack window for pets, maybe resetting attack commands often.

Ideally a BM could own if you land all your hits, but thats the kicker you have to land all your hits.

My ideas on taming are reduce the damage tames do to players so that they only add marginal dps.

Give tames utility skills, like the spider queen pull from mo 1

make those utility skills an aimed cast.

My Idea is similar. I would balance pets based on size. Larger pets who have lots of HP should be less usefull of smaller fights. Their utility should mostly be towards impacting large scale fights. Also give them AoE attacks that do less damage with maybe 1 very long cool down high damage attack that targets a single player. White bear could have a roar that damages stamina or breaks blocks for a very short time in a AoE close to the WB as a example.

Wolves being smaller and more soloable by players can have attacks that focus on individual. Like attacks that root the target in place to were they cant run untill the wolf is beaten off. And pain mechanics that will force pets like wolves to temporarily retreat when to much damage is afflicted in a shot time. This will keep the pets alive to be recomanded like a skill on cool down while not making fights against a beast mast always 1vx.

Making BM a utility option makes them more fun while preventing the main issue of having pets fight for you. Also diverifies tames to not just be the most lethal but picking a tame for each situation. Not going to bring a armored WB out to 1v1 when it does little damage against a single player since he can play around it to kill you. But you might instead bring 2-3 wolves to CC him down as you fight him.

 

[ThaBadMan]

yeah I think the time investment should be similar to crafting a sword or suit of armor. Anything that increases the interaction a beast master has to do with their pet would be good. A small attack window for pets, maybe resetting attack commands often.

Ideally a BM could own if you land all your hits, but thats the kicker you have to land all your hits.

My ideas on taming are reduce the damage tames do to players so that they only add marginal dps.

Give tames utility skills, like the spider queen pull from mo 1

make those utility skills an aimed cast.

Yea thats a good idea.
Make it like mages, you have to be in range with both yourself and your pet and target the target in order for your pet to hit 1 time, then you have to redo this step every single attack.
Meaning you cant simply put it on someone and run away, you actually have to play and be in range and as such be vulnerable. Say 5-10m range for both your pet and you to attack your target. Couple this with stamina and stam management and you could leave them as is in regards to power.
Risk vs reward. Atm its reward with no risk.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Id rather they actually balance pets instead of making them harder to get. Then kids will cry that their white bear cant solo a 10 man foot group because it took them hours to get....

They are following MO1 balance logic at this point, just like with Death Knights.

Honestly there is more then 1 way to balance something. They could always Buff foot fighters for example because foot fighters are the only ones who don't like pets. That is because People on foot lose to Pets, anything on Mount Wins vs pets because pets can't catch mounted players.

 

[Tzone]

Honestly there is more then 1 way to balance something. They could always Buff foot fighters for example because foot fighters are the only ones who don't like pets. That is because People on foot lose to Pets, anything on Mount Wins vs pets because pets can't catch mounted players.

Fighting against pets still isnt enjoyable. I dont like the logic that many game devs have of no nerfing only buffing. I get that some of the playerbase feels really down if their thing gets nerfed but its the same difference if something else is buffed.

Mages also dont like pets, a pet of anykind destroys mages since there is not stamina to stop the pet, it ignores the shield on the back, and ignores the X axis if the mages jumps on a rock. But mages can use pets because they spare points so mages arent too hurt by pets being broken.

Balancing by limiting interaction should never be a solution and isnt real balance. Pets are not even enjoyable content and SV solution doesnt make them that enjoyable to play either. Pets in PvE are just boring, doesnt really add anything to the game besides lets people collect something and auto fights for them. Even telling pets to do the direction of attack you want with maybe a special attack would be boring and not add much to the game.

 

[Jatix]

2) Increasing the time investment actually is MORE justification for them to be OP in the eyes of beastmasters

This perfectly sums up why I dont like the balance direction MO has been going in for years. Its impossible to get them to nerf something when the people using it claim it takes a lot of effort to get so it cant get nerfded. DK, Max bred horses, etc. None lead to more fun gameplay.