Revert the INT curve changes

[MolagAmur]

At the end of the day it did literally nothing but make more builds less viable and some non-viable. I don't think any of us asked for the changes that we got. It was such a lazy way to do it. We should just revert it altogether imo. We need more build variety...not less.

The day that patch hit I logged onto my Veela hybrid build that I have been playing for years and years and found that my greater heals were healing for like 19s. Meanwhile mages didn't really feel any effect at all afaik.

If there are some positive effects it has then please say...

 

[Bernfred]

it was a very good change for every mage because every dude was a magefighter before and now you can play differnt mage builds, not only obese. hybrids are balanced imo.
need pet bandages btw

 

[MolagAmur]

every dude was a magefighter? can you explain that please...

 

[Piet]

it was a very good change for every mage because every dude was a magefighter before and now you can play differnt mage builds, not only obese. hybrids are balanced imo.
need pet bandages btw

Ya that's just simply not the case. There were clear differences and positives and negatives between the 2. The main issue in mo2 wasn't the int curve it was the mana regen. There is less difference so less reason to go full mage than hybrid when rest bypasses mana regen skill and negative repercussions of heavier armor.

 

[Evelyn]

It is a very good change, now you have to pick between INT or PSY you can't just be a full mage and have melee and be resistant to magic all at once. I didn't like the change, but the balance pass was obvious. It also made DEX mages slightly better at 109 INT.

 

[MolagAmur]

It is a very good change, now you have to pick between INT or PSY you can't just be a full mage and have melee and be resistant to magic all at once. I didn't like the change, but the balance pass was obvious. It also made DEX mages slightly better at 109 INT.

That could still have been achieved without making a lot of hybrid/paladin builds obsolete. The negatives outweigh the positives with how they did it in my opinion.

Also what is this full mage, melee using, magic resist build you're talking about? Or are you considering the old hybrids to be "full mages"?

Nobody ever said hybrids were overtuned before the combat test where we had all the skills. The last time hybrids were overtuned was in 2013 when everyone was running around in scale armor.


You can almost count the builds in this game on one hand...

 

[Sneeze]

they should just redo the way it applies making there be more of an increase between 50 and 100 (benefits mage specific builds more )and then a slight nerf to the highest end (nerfs fatmages a bit)

instead of changing the viability of being a mage at all to very specific builds(and promoting fatmages) and making hybrids generally worse they could have done it in a way that while slightly nerfing hybrids does not make them very restricted build wise and allows a larger variety of mage builds

 

[Rhias]

Actually I like the current way. More points in int = more damage.
Hybrids healing for less than a full mage is totally fine in my opinion.
Same damage with 50 and 100 int was just stupid.

 

[MolagAmur]

Hybrids healing for less than a full mage is totally fine in my opinion.
Same damage with 50 and 100 int was just stupid.

Nobody would disagree with that I don't think. Making 50 literally useless wasn't the answer though.

 

[Woody]

I think when it comes to attributes and even skill points, in every case it will always end up feeling worse for the player when spending more points doesn't net you more power. You'd need a very clear secondary indicator (such as a second value representing effective power) that variably scales up and down depending on the higher or lower you go with the attribute. This helps retain some intuition in the system for the player but IMO, don't see why we would need it.

Keep attribute scaling linear and bake in variability for spells, schools etc into the spells themselves.

 

[MolagAmur]

Okay. So the real issue here for me is that Veela hybrids are trash now. So if we keep the INT how it is and everyone likes it...Veela need more attribute points to allow them to be viable hybrids. I'm all for full INT mages healing for more as I have always thought thats how it should be (and went into specific detail on this on the thread I made before the INT changes). But I want to be able to have a good Veela build and not have to play a boring ass human in order to not severely gimp myself if I choose to play hybrid.

I get playstyles and builds will be nerfed over time in an MMO. But the truth is....they were gutted. And I don't think nerfing them was their intention...it was just an effect of the lazy INT change.

 

[Woody]

Okay. So the real issue here for me is that Veela hybrids are trash now. So if we keep the INT how it is and everyone likes it...Veela need more attribute points to allow them to be viable hybrids. I'm all for full INT mages healing for more as I have always thought thats how it should be (and went into specific detail on this on the thread I made before the INT changes). But I want to be able to have a good Veela build and not have to play a boring ass human in order to not severely gimp myself if I choose to play hybrid.

I get playstyles and builds will be nerfed over time in an MMO. But the truth is....they were gutted. And I don't think nerfing them was their intention...it was just an effect of the lazy INT change.

I think this is the right mindset too. Note that the clade gift system I believe is designed to tackle the shortcomings of certain clades not being the best hybrids at a root attribute level - as this is at the end of the day, how Humans are intended to be.

 

[Rhias]

Veela
Min Size
63 str
120 dex
100 con
92 int
(no clade gifts calculated in)
There is your hybrid build with full magic potential.

 

[Rorry]

Veela
Min Size
63 str
120 dex
100 con
92 int
(no clade gifts calculated in)
There is your hybrid build with full magic potential.

That low strength is very meh, though. Pretty much everyone will just use a Sheevra at that point and be better off.

 

[Rhias]

That low strength is very meh, though. Pretty much everyone will just use a Sheevra at that point and be better off.

It's roughly 5% damage bonus compared to max str and enough for non-heavy weapons such as swords or spears.

 

[Turbizzler]

MO1 had the issue of being "cookie cutter" when it came to builds, but somehow MO2 has less build variety than MO1, while becoming more restrictive and giving new meaning to cookie cutter.

The way it's heading, it's going to be a boring situation of either Play X build for X race, or you're obsolete. Build variety is everything in an MMO(especially a skill based one), clone wars and linearity is a snooze fest. What next? Gear based combat?

With the way PvP balance is, and how build/race balance is, might as well turn MO2 balance completely rock-paper-scissors while making the combat turn based. I had high hopes when I first got my hands on MO2, but the past 3 months that hope has been declining.

 

[Banespike]

Just play human for hybrid and ur fine, sheevra also works pretty well if you don’t like humans.

 

[Deleted member 44]

They need to raise the defense effect of PSY. On my fit Sheevra I can consistently blast fighters for 80+ with fulmination.

 

[MolagAmur]

Some of you are missing the point entirely. This thread is about a change that didn't have much of an impact on the game other than slash viable builds. Build diversity is low and you don't have to really weight the pro's and con's of clades when the attribute pool/caps are so different they make the better choice obvious. Its boring.

Its following the trend of MO1...even with the addition of clades.

 

[Woody]

Some of you are missing the point entirely. This thread is about a change that didn't have much of an impact on the game other than slash viable builds. Build diversity is low and you don't have to really weight the pro's and con's of clades when the attribute pool/caps are so different they make the better choice obvious. Its boring.

Its following the trend of MO1...even with the addition of clades.

The issue I have with this sentiment, is that we don't have access to empirical data showing the distribution of builds being used. We also still have fairly incomplete skill trees and role balance in general given Magic and Archery are very much WIP.