Real time combat

[Valoran]

People with 300 ping have always been competitive and borderline had an advantage. What u say is pretty moot.

This is not true at all. The real advantage has always been low ping in MO1, and it still is in MO2 although to a lesser extent now due to the normalization system.

Not being able to block attacks at all in MO1 was more of a con than the advantage of looking a bit laggy. You also have to remember than the lag you see a high ping player having, is how everyone looks to him, so there is no advantage.

In MO2 however, there can be problems when someone has high packet loss, only that has basically nothing to do with ping and the worst offenders of this do it to themselves on purpose.

High packet loss players will be booted from the server, Henrik has said.

 

[Turbizzler]

Mordhau did set a bar, but it also has a lot of issue when it comes to mechanics and server performance, which is a product of it's complexities.

Red parries - Aka the server seeing your parry input as too late, so you take damage even though on your screen you timed it and aimed your parry correctly. Doesn't matter if both clients are 60ms or 100ms, red parries will happen due to packets being sent - According to the devs it's "unfixable" for them.

Complete free form combat is god sent, but with that comes animation manipulation that can be extremely abused unless you have correct mo-cap animations tied with clunky mechanics, like turn caps and deacceleration.

Having multiple directional attacks and blocks, ontop of projectiles, chambers and clashes = alot of information to be sent to clients and server. Most servers struggle with 64 players.

I can write a book on why Mordhau is both great and horrid. Mortal Online is impressive in terms of handling far more information with a less complex melee system. It's basically a tradeoff.

In saying that, I prefer a lot about MO1's combat, compared to MO2's combat.

 

[Turbizzler]

This is not true at all. The real advantage has always been low ping in MO1, and it still is in MO2 although to a lesser extent now due to the normalization system.

Not being able to block attacks at all in MO1 was more of a con than the advantage of looking a bit laggy. You also have to remember than the lag you see a high ping player having, is how everyone looks to him, so there is no advantage.

In MO2 however, there can be problems when someone has high packet loss, only that has basically nothing to do with ping and the worst offenders of this do it to themselves on purpose.

High packet loss players will be booted from the server, Henrik has said.

High ping players had an advantage, especially if you knew how the prediction system worked.

As someone who had 260 - 280 ping to MO1 server, I could force block damage instead of parry on my opponent. I could flurry attacks utilizing footwork and fast weapons to bypass a turtle defensive player, due to how synchronization was. You essentially force lower ping players into hit trades, but the higher ping player has the advantage in that aspect(also depending on build, which most high ping players had chars suited to their situation)

You could also parry somewhat easily as a high ping player, you just had to read their attacks as the swing animation started, then refresh your block correctly to score a parry.

High ping players had to play unpredictable, and that threw off those parry bots.

 

[Bernfred]

Henrik
— 03/09/2021
"
and no matter waht direction we would move the combat, the debates would never end, cause everyone have their own mindset and vision and prefered style to fight and play

Again pros and cons by speeding up things, the network solution suffers from it, while some may think its more fun with more speed we get that, but we want to do our best to make sure its more fair game this time compared to mo1. but there are some things that will improve over time that may help in a few areas,. but for now, we want to make sure we are in a good core first, cause we are also adding a lot of functionsthat will affect everything in combat that may make speed less vital in terms of player skills. So we need more time there.
"

 

[Avenoma]

in terms of handling far more information with a less complex melee system. It's basically a tradeoff.

there are combos though. just the double tapping, Ive seen cause what looked like an instant, opposite directional strike. Whether that strike registered or it was a glitch, I dont know, but it was cool as fuck. Plus, our own 360's and 180's add another element for combos. Weapon switching, weak spots and Henrik has expressed desire to make all the weapons throwable...
Whatever happens, I feel they are on the "right track"

Edit: With certain games, all you are doing is getting a scripted strike, script your own strike...
Yea, a 360 backhand strike, button, would be nice. But the tools are out there to do it oneself...

 

[Anabolic Man]

i would like to see that the block drops after 1,5 seconds, and that you have to reblock. Not as short as in chivalery, becuase its an mmo, but i would rater see the block dropped instead getting a some block damage.

 

[Anabolic Man]

Honestly...its a joke. Mordhau has set the standard for real time melee combat. MO2 and any melee action combat game these days aren't even getting close to that standard. I understand that MO and MO2 lean towards group combat but that's no excuse not to have a semi decent melee system that facilitates 1v1 and 1vx. What we have now is just sad.

ima outline what I think needs to be improved upon sooner rather than later. Most people are about to have their first impressions of the game and even if you call it a test you only get 1 first impression.

right away install some turn caps. Jesus watching people start swings facing away from you and bringing them all the way around looks janky as hell. If melee combat cant be done without hiding the animations of your melee combat then its a bad combat system.

Feinting is a joke. Costs basically nothing. does basically nothing. why feint if I still have to charge up a super telegraphed swing to do damage.

Get some stam penalties for missed swings ASAP. Missing a fully charged swing costs you nothing. Not only can you still block incoming attacks near instantly after missing but there is no stamina penalty for throwing your big ass axe around like a moron.

Charging directional attacks for damage. This is just bad in general. Its not only a dated system it just doesn't work in making the combat flow well and feel good. Because of the charging system it promotes parrying to riposte for damage. Even in group we just look for attacks to parry so we dont have to charge.

Heres is some basic now industry standard ways to do melee combat. welcome to 2021.

Timed blocking. Mordhau has shown that directional blocking is subpar in gameplay. Having a timed block allows you to dictate the flow of combat and determine which player you want to have initiative. Lets look at the current system. IT has a timed parry in the block. This is fine I suppose. Hold a block to long and you switch to blocking state which has some chip damage in it. You also dont get frame advantage if you hold your block up to long and miss the parry window. However good luck ever missing that parry window.

The window is not only super forgiving which is probably a good idea in an mmo. It's also to easy to drop your block and reblock near instantly if the opponent holds the attack to long. Another words the attacker cant force the penalty of blocking an attack because you can just reblock right away. It's silly.

Ideally we want a system where you look at the blade itself and you have a block that will defend you for roughly .25 seconds. This number can be adjusted of course. Why? simple, its an active system that makes you feel as though you are actually blocking the attack not some silly calculation. Physically moving your blade to intercept an attack is a lot more engaging than holding it left right up or down and waiting to hear a sound.

it also allows us to give players options for circumventing a skilled blocker. sure the block catches all attacks that you can see on the screen but it's also timed. Meaning you can easily get punished for missing a block or panic blocking. Your block is good but it also has weaknesses. We can adjust the time you have to wait before you can block again. Ideally this number is made so that if you block an attack correctly you go into the riposte state but are also able to block again right away. So you can deal with multiple opponents swinging at you.

On the flip side should you fall for a feint or block to early you cant block again right away which allows your opponent to "punish" your mistake. Giving them the opportunity to capitalize and do damage.

In the same vein attacking and blocking and feinting should all have varying costs to stamina. Attacking and landing on your opponent should have almost no stamina cost. Attacking and landing should have none. Attacking and whiffing should cost you far more stamina.

Blocking properly should cost you some stamina, Blocking and whiffing should cost you quite a bit more. Blocking lighter weapons that favor speed should be less taxing than blocking heavier and slower weapons. It allows players to pick preferred play styles and opens up the meta making it both deep and dynamic.

Crafting already lends to this idea. You can make all sorts of weapons that can be heavy even as one handed or light as two handed. So many different variations to craft but almost no reason to try anything out. You are just looking to maximize damage and minimize stamina costs. Its a stale meta and a waste of IMO the best crafting system ever offered in any online game.

I can go on but im running out of time so I will edit in more critiques later.

In closing Mordhau set the standard. The meta for both group and single combat in the game is incredibly deep. Much more deep than what is currently offered in MO2 and any game using the same outdated directional combat system. The weapons in MO2 like Mordhau are physical objects. You can manipulate swing timing to vary your offense and even the angles of attacks. In MO2 there is some of this. you can manipulate your camera to make attacks faster but you cant make them slower. IE (accelerating or dragging) because of the outdated charging attacks and directional blocking being utilized.

Look im not saying copy paste another games system. It wouldnt work and would be lazy for MO2. What I am saying is that Mordhau pioneered the next gen melee combat system and it would be foolish not to try to incorporate as much of that deep and engaging system as would fit in MO2 and work well. I wager that MO2 is better situated to expand and innovate on those ideas far better than anything currently out on the market. You dont have to sacrifice 1v1 and 1vx to have an engaging system for all forms of combat.

What is your ingame Name ? I would like to show you my set of mixups. They work fine to get arroudn ablock. I am in Kranesh.