Pure Mage PvP Idea to be considered prior to staff magic.

[Midas]

----Reactive Armor spell--- player skill based.

-User Casts Spell On Self. (ONLY SELFCAST)
-Spell Presents as Duration buff Similar to that of magic Reflect. (Cannot be removed by purify) , every time a player makes a successful parry a small amount of mana is restored. IF a player successfully parries the damage is mitigated to the casting player and a small to moderate percentage of that Melee Damage is reflected back to the enemy. Dmg and mitigation values based off casting players INT/PSY/ECU skill level.
-Spell Mitigates Melee Damage similar to a conventional shield however it is not an item , its use is mana based and drains mana while held the same as a normal shield would to stamina.
-Spell needs to be ecumenical based Allowing new mages to access this skill and have it scale with ecumenical level.(beneficial for players starting the game as well as large scale and solo pvp)
-Should use higher end reagents to cast.
- should have its own parry animation similar to that of the spark from weapon parries. (the more simple the better) like change the color of the spark. to identify it.
- if need be an item could be added specifically for mages to use the skill as a requirement. ( a light/medium armor piece with the small buckler attached or "mage bracer")

It is my belief that this will make for a more fluid combat scenario in all pure mage situations and increase the fluidity for PURE MAGE combat drastically. It is based off Risk/Reward as a mage with not enough mana regeneration due to high armor weight would fail to use this properly. therefore a mage has to have a high level of risk to use this spell efficiently and will most likely be used as a last resort instead of being forced to pull out a dagger or noob sword which does nothing but remove them from the battle almost completely.

I do feel a large part of the mage population wants something along these lines as a defensive spell for themselves when approached by a melee character. Infact its probably one of the main reasons people want staff magic to begin with(to be defensive).

the Brawling animation is already in the game +
mages get to keep combat movement speed +
more mage builds will be viable +


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All that being said i would also like to see potions and bandages to be used with one hand free.

 

[Calcal]

This 100% please. @Robmo There's no excuse not to give this or similar a try. I'd like to err on the side of optimism but after two years it's starting to wear down on me and I don't think SV is capable of doing anything significant.

SV is afraid of touching the current meta, which is horribly unbalanced. But SV, your game IS broken, it IS unbalanced and you ARE losing players every month. What are you gaining by sitting on your hands?

 

[Jackdstripper]

You want a buff that gives you mana AND reflects damage back to attacker on parries?

To me that sounds incredibly OP. Mages that can parry well are already super hard to kill. You want them to also deal damage JUST by parrying successfully? And then have a counter ready anytime they wish? Plus cloud of ashes? Plus death hand?

I would much rather see a buff in overall mana regeneration, or have a “quick unsheathe” spell, or a buff that lest you cast quicker……Damage reflect on parry is just broken OP.

 

[Calcal]

You want a buff that gives you mana AND reflects damage back to attacker on parries?

To me that sounds incredibly OP. Mages that can parry well are already super hard to kill. You want them to also deal damage JUST by parrying successfully? And then have a counter ready anytime they wish? Plus cloud of ashes? Plus death hand?

I would much rather see a buff in overall mana regeneration, or have a “quick unsheathe” spell, or a buff that lest you cast quicker……Damage reflect on parry is just broken OP.

I think the idea is a parry that drains mana on successful parry chip damage on hp. that aside. overall mana regen and concentration reworks are sorely needed.

 

[Midas]

bump

 

[Sabella]

I can see where you want to go with it, i can see it in a magic school in the future. Why not? Except for one thing, i do not understand, it is well enough crafted to function. That's the good part. Now the bad part and the reason why i did not write here before. Jackdstripper is right about this btw., well "super hard" is a stretch however ...

[..] , every time a player makes a successful parry a small amount of mana is restored.

OR

[..] therefore a mage has to have a high level of risk to use this spell efficiently and will most likely be used as a last resort instead of being forced to pull out a dagger or noob sword which does nothing but remove them from the battle almost completely.

What is it now? It can not be both. The "last resort" gives the mage mana before being killed? I do not understand that part, maybe you can explain.

What i think is: we simply need a spell that takes the first melee hit away when hit. A blade turn spell. This spell disappears after the effect.
Anything else would cause a melee player outcry of epic size. That is not what we need now.

And then afterward SV should take a look, if there is some more complex or more support needed. A simple, small, good, working thing.
Not the next big fuck up. That's what the game needs. Solid progression and repairing playstyles.
I would rather enjoy 100x 5 seconds not getting one hit and have, a coming back in the fight somehow than 100x 10 silver from a new POI. You too.

A blade turn spell is not getting rid of one-hits entirely, your suggestion does. Mmh, i guess not so good if everyone can have it (game design).
Idk, people will not like it. Even tho first hit has been taken away and the element of surprise is gone, they still want to one or two hit. I don't know why, but they love it apparently! Must be the skilled part about it.

[..]I do feel a large part of the mage population wants something along these lines as a defensive spell for themselves when approached by a melee character. Infact its probably one of the main reasons people want staff magic to begin with(to be defensive).

This is a balance issue. Well in general: balance will not be done by SV - latest statement from the lead developer Q&A with Speznat.
Reason is: "It's too time-intensive.". So it is highly questionable if any of our suggestions will even make it on "the list".

What else ...
You can take a look at https://mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/10051/ touches the topic also, highlighting some of the issues.

It all starts where you need to have raw base classes: melee, healer, mage damage dealer. Bowmen, tamer i would say is not a base class.
It may appear that you can not split up the mage healer and the mage damage dealer in this game, but this also is a SV design decision.
to have it like that. With the pros and cons that come with it.

When you think of it, it has no pros except one can say: "Oh open classes, everyone can be everything!" whatever that means.
What it means in game: you can see on the heavy armored footfighter with campadon meta.
It means: OP solo builds you can not fight against #alt+F4.

I have to say: we can not put it together, the company can not tell us how to put it together and no balancing anymore, like WTF?

@SV: waiting 3 years now for 1 spell "thank you very much"!

 

[Midas]

I can see where you want to go with it, i can see it in a magic school in the future. Why not? Except for one thing, i do not understand, it is well enough crafted to function. That's the good part. Now the bad part and the reason why i did not write here before. Jackdstripper is right about this btw., well "super hard" is a stretch however ...

OR

What is it now? It can not be both. The "last resort" gives the mage mana before being killed? I do not understand that part, maybe you can explain.

What i think is: we simply need a spell that takes the first melee hit away when hit. A blade turn spell. This spell disappears after the effect.
Anything else would cause a melee player outcry of epic size. That is not what we need now.

And then afterward SV should take a look, if there is some more complex or more support needed. A simple, small, good, working thing.
Not the next big fuck up. That's what the game needs. Solid progression and repairing playstyles.
I would rather enjoy 100x 5 seconds not getting one hit and have, a coming back in the fight somehow than 100x 10 silver from a new POI. You too.

A blade turn spell is not getting rid of one-hits entirely, your suggestion does. Mmh, i guess not so good if everyone can have it (game design).
Idk, people will not like it. Even tho first hit has been taken away and the element of surprise is gone, they still want to one or two hit. I don't know why, but they love it apparently! Must be the skilled part about it.



This is a balance issue. Well in general: balance will not be done by SV - latest statement from the lead developer Q&A with Speznat.
Reason is: "It's too time-intensive.". So it is highly questionable if any of our suggestions will even make it on "the list".

What else ...
You can take a look at https://mortalonline2.com/forums/threads/10051/ touches the topic also, highlighting some of the issues.

It all starts where you need to have raw base classes: melee, healer, mage damage dealer. Bowmen, tamer i would say is not a base class.
It may appear that you can not split up the mage healer and the mage damage dealer in this game, but this also is a SV design decision.
to have it like that. With the pros and cons that come with it.

When you think of it, it has no pros except one can say: "Oh open classes, everyone can be everything!" whatever that means.
What it means in game: you can see on the heavy armored footfighter with campadon meta.
It means: OP solo builds you can not fight against #alt+F4.

I have to say: we can not put it together, the company can not tell us how to put it together and no balancing anymore, like WTF?

@SV: waiting 3 years now for 1 spell "thank you very much"!

"What i think is: we simply need a spell that takes the first melee hit away when hit. A blade turn spell. This spell disappears after the effect.
Anything else would cause a melee player outcry of epic size. That is not what we need now."


I think this is a horrible idea because it does not add player skill , with my suggestion a mage would hafto be Actively skillfully using parry mechanics in the game and being rewarded for doing it properly with either reflected damage and or regeneration of mana / cast time reduction?

 

[Sabella]

I think this is a horrible idea because it does not add player skill , with my suggestion a mage would hafto be Actively skillfully using parry mechanics in the game and being rewarded for doing it properly with either reflected damage and or regeneration of mana / cast time reduction?

The passive shield: Magic Reflect is horrible, I understand. Melee has a shield against magic, not actively skillful using anything. But a mage is not allowed to have a shield against melee. Please explain that.

And while you are at it, please explain why we should keep the skill less one hits or how do you think we should get rid of them.

 

[Teknique]

Yo how's staff magic coming along. Hahahahahahaha

 

[MolagAmur]

Yo how's staff magic coming along. Hahahahahahaha

Remember how staff magic was winning the poll by a massive amount, then all the sudden Necromancy shoots up to "win"? And Henrik was like "well guys looks like Necro won we will have it out really soon".

yeah, wonder why.

 

[Midas]

Even if we get staff magic its my belief that it should be a default skill for all mages to be able to actively skillfully block using magic.

However , casting a spell to just have a damage reduction bubble on you is meaningless and unskillfull.

Casting a spell that allows you to have a lets say "ethereal shield" in your off hand at all times that allows you to block while maintaining the brawling animation and actively skillfully parrying is somthing ALL mages need not just those that decide to go into staff magic. its just quality of life for mages.
especially if it allows mages to farm PVE effectively.

Currently the only real way to fight more then one mob at a time effectively is to cheese the game mechanics and use safe spots , i dont think this was the intention of elementalism.

I understand elementalism was put in the game to help with pve however in my opinion it failed to do so , yah sure you can cast a field and stand there and tank hits , but is that really effective?

Currently for instance a thursar can clear a whole bandit camp by himself with all the mobs on him and not use a single bandage.

My suggestion is mostly PVP related but i hope SV can come up with a solution for the PVE dilemma aswell.

I know not everyone will agree with me and thats fine.

but id like to ask those melee players that choose to respond to this post in a non productive way , when the last time you saw a pure mage duel using only spells ? was it skillfull ? was it boring?

I believe these mechanics are necessary to start seeing mage duels as well as duels between footies and pure mages.

 

[Teknique]

Remember how staff magic was winning the poll by a massive amount, then all the sudden Necromancy shoots up to "win"? And Henrik was like "well guys looks like Necro won we will have it out really soon".

yeah, wonder why.

Lmao stop the steal

 

[Teknique]

Even if we get staff magic its my belief that it should be a default skill for all mages to be able to actively skillfully block using magic.

However , casting a spell to just have a damage reduction bubble on you is meaningless and unskillfull.

Casting a spell that allows you to have a lets say "ethereal shield" in your off hand at all times that allows you to block while maintaining the brawling animation and actively skillfully parrying is somthing ALL mages need not just those that decide to go into staff magic. its just quality of life for mages.
especially if it allows mages to farm PVE effectively.

Currently the only real way to fight more then one mob at a time effectively is to cheese the game mechanics and use safe spots , i dont think this was the intention of elementalism.

I understand elementalism was put in the game to help with pve however in my opinion it failed to do so , yah sure you can cast a field and stand there and tank hits , but is that really effective?

Currently for instance a thursar can clear a whole bandit camp by himself with all the mobs on him and not use a single bandage.

My suggestion is mostly PVP related but i hope SV can come up with a solution for the PVE dilemma aswell.

I know not everyone will agree with me and thats fine.

but id like to ask those melee players that choose to respond to this post in a non productive way , when the last time you saw a pure mage duel using only spells ? was it skillfull ? was it boring?

I believe these mechanics are necessary to start seeing mage duels as well as duels between footies and pure mages.

There’s not really much to disagree with. The class balancing and pve balancing, and solo lvling experience are all the worst I’ve seen industry wide. Standing still and getting wailed on while trying to cast a spell is the most ridiculous notion ever in terms of pve. The fact that svs solution was a whole separate magic school that will never release speaks for itself.

If I was in charge of balancing I’d at least have a bandaid fix within 24 hours. I would have an ecumenical spell called ethereal sword that did reduced damage in pvp. I would also add a method of crowd control on multiple npcs and some kind of damage reduction as well.

 

[Sabella]

Mages have all kinds of shields running like melee has plate forever, nobody complains about passive shields or passive plate armor in general.
How you come to this idea? Idk.

Even if we get staff magic its my belief that it should be a default skill for all mages to be able to actively skillfully block using magic.

Idk. what staff magic is but iam scared. A mage never want/need to use melee at all, AT ALL. Mage is e.g.: a range damage dealer. A glass cannon.
It was like this forever and when this game does not have the mechanics to support this, then it is not that "there is a SV mage interpretation" or something. MO2 does not have magic in the game at all - so easy is that. There is no room for interpretation. You then have a hybrid, not a mage.

However , casting a spell to just have a damage reduction bubble on you is meaningless and unskillfull.

Go try remove MR, good luck with that. No, it is balance. Since there is no working PSY or enchantments in the game, to resist the damage type
(here flat all types) of incoming magic damage when we speak of MR. It's to help melee to close the gap between player and caster.
And it does that and more, quite too effective. What did help the mage the last 3 years? Nothing.

Casting a spell that allows you to have a lets say "ethereal shield" in your off hand at all times that allows you to block while maintaining the brawling animation and actively skillfully parrying is somthing ALL mages need not just those that decide to go into staff magic. its just quality of life for mages.
especially if it allows mages to farm PVE effectively.

Again, mages do not melee. You can only fail on that path. If you want to have mages in your game you have to stop that. A fundamental we obviously disagree on. It's absolutely no QoL to force mages into doing melee. It's as fun as being forced into using spells for a melee.
But if so, how is brawling doing more damage than having a weapon?

Currently the only real way to fight more then one mob at a time effectively is to cheese the game mechanics and use safe spots , i dont think this was the intention of elementalism.

Save spots should be closed by barrels or invisible walls, a map designers' task.

I understand elementalism was put in the game to help with pve however in my opinion it failed to do so , yah sure you can cast a field and stand there and tank hits , but is that really effective?

Ele is unfinished too, but it's a start at least. Mana and reg costs, projectile speed and effects, cast time, impact effects and damage - all needs to be balanced, some needs to be change completly.

Currently for instance a thursar can clear a whole bandit camp by himself with all the mobs on him and not use a single bandage.

That is what crowd control is for. A mechanic SV does not want in the game. No PvX without crowd control for the mage.

I believe these mechanics are necessary to start seeing mage duels as well as duels between footies and pure mages.

I know we need enchantments and crowd control to make that and PvX happen. "We" do not just believe it or make it up on the go.
No more experiments please.

Do not get me wrong. I like the idea. I would like to hijack your requirements for the spell, for example. But the blade turn is easier to implement and test and, last but not least, it is more urgent than yours. Looks like we are fighting for the tiny bit of development time that is available here too...

Bladeturn is a working mechanic from a good game. Even though it's just an example. It's not an idea and certainly not my idea or horrible.

A good shield for hybrids that use melee. But not so much for mages - is what you presented, i think. And for a low ping mage that, parries decent it is OP because of the nature of it. Melee that finds out can not leave the fight, so your back at the "parry fest", that is why SV came up with blink charge (from what i understand).

My suggestion is mostly PVP related but i hope SV can come up with a solution for the PVE dilemma aswell.

Would not have counted even for before blink charge changes, we found out. Not much parry going on WITH blink charge, isn't it?
Kinda breaks the shield idea for pvp since you need parry to have the effects. Btw. high ping players can not parry blink charge at all.

Some things work, some things don't it's not about "how different we are" We do not have opinions at best. There is no use.
We need to argue together and go somewhere, but that only works if you answer my questions too.

So again: please answer my question: what is with the "one-hit" BS, when do YOU plan to get rid of? Or, do you also think that
getting your one-hits in the head daily at the bank, helps your alzheimer prevention like Heinrich mentioned recently?

 

[Midas]

this is more of a crutch for all mages not just veelas. not everyone can escape melee combat when its on them and as soon as it is its basicly over. any mage should be able to defend themselves or escape without having to go offensive in an uphill fight.