Problems of HUMANs beings and not only

Eskaldar

Member
Jun 25, 2020
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The update came out and what did we get?
I do not know about you, but it has become impossible to play a human hybrid. I'll just post my tests and decide for yourself, this is normal, this is how it should be or still, this is wrong.
I have human 215HP and 122 manapool. 100 in mana regeneration skill (+25-100% more passive mana regeneration ), 100 in meditation skil (+0-100% mana regen when resting ) and Shamanistic Gift (Mana and health gain when resting is increased by 50% and you gain health, mana, and stamina reserves while resting).
i know about this "Fixed issue whereas Mana recovered while resting was not impacted by armor weight", but you can think it's normal?
What we have before? I use medium - heavy armor 15-18KG.
My character could recover, when resting, 122 mana in 25 seconds, or somting like that. I understand that it shouldn't be like this , BUT!
What we have now?
human 215HP and 122 manapool. 100 in mana regeneration skill (+25-100% more passive mana regeneration ), 100 in meditation skil (+0-100% mana regen when resting ) and Shamanistic Gift (Mana and health gain when resting is increased by 50% and you gain health, mana, and stamina reserves while resting).
heavy armor 15-18KG - 10% manaregeneration
When resting, i'am recover 122 mana in 3 minute and 47 seconds.
And you know what's funny. In the same time, I will be able to fully restore all my health (215 HP) almost 3 times!!!
i'am don't have "active regeneration" skill, only passive regen in 60.
215 HP in 1 minute 37 seconds!
I decided to check how mana recovery works now, with and without armor, with and without meditation, with and without shamanism.

0 meditation, Shamanistic Gift off, 0KG armor = 122 mana in 52,4 sec ; 2,32 mana/sec;
0 meditation, Shamanistic Gift on, 0KG armor = 122 mana in 39,4 sec ; 3,09 mana/sec;
100 meditation, Shamanistic Gift off, 0KG armor = 122 mana in 32,3 sec ; 3,8 mana/sec;
100 meditation, Shamanistic Gift on, 0KG armor = 122 mana in 23 sec ; 5,3 mana/sec;

0 meditation, Shamanistic Gift off, 18.54KG armor = 122 mana in 8 minute and 48 seconds ; 0,23 mana/sec;
0 meditation, Shamanistic Gift on, 18.54KG armor = 122 mana in 6 minute and 44 seconds ; 0,30 mana/sec;
100 meditation, Shamanistic Gift off, 18.54KGarmor = 122 mana in 5 minute and 13 seconds ; 0,38 mana/sec;
100 meditation, Shamanistic Gift on, 18.54KG armor = 122 mana in 3 minute and 47 seconds ; 0,53 mana/sec;

I just want to know the opinion of other players and the opinion of developers on this issue.
It turns out that HP should recover faster than mana on resting?
 

Belegar

Active member
Oct 16, 2021
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Hybrids are one of the more difficult styles to play, I can imagine this nerf almost makes it not worth the effort to make the build work.

As a Plate Fat Mage, I have also been terribly effected to the point that my build is now dead. I will have to go Dex Mage to be able to compete in combats.
 

Valoran

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
333
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Now there is another tangible incentive to wear lighter armor as a hybrid instead of ignoring it due to the ability to sit down and regenerate all your mana in a short time.

18kg is heavy armor, and you are not meant to be able to wear heavy armour while being a mage effectively.

You're still able to be a "paladin" by expending 100+ mana at a time which is still very strong, but you definitely need to wear lighter armor if you want more sustained mana usage.


That said, there's always room for tweaking and maybe it could be a bit more forgiving.
 
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Piet

Active member
May 28, 2020
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Your armor weight is to heavy for a hybrid. You are playing a Paladin which has no mana regen. Hybrids usually have around 12 weight armor. The change is good, that's what was causing the minimal difference in mage, hybrid, and paladin and should have fixed this bug instead of changing the int curve in the first place.
 

Tzone

Well-known member
May 16, 2021
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Yeah they said they "fixed" mana regen while resting with armor on. This was never a issue IDK why they "fixed" it. SV just like nerfing humans I guess. Already a higher skill floor needed to play paladin or hybrid but SV doesnt want people to play it.

Its like the game gets worse each patch in some way.
 

Teknique

Well-known member
Jun 15, 2020
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Yeah they said they "fixed" mana regen while resting with armor on. This was never a issue IDK why they "fixed" it. SV just like nerfing humans I guess. Already a higher skill floor needed to play paladin or hybrid but SV doesnt want people to play it.

Its like the game gets worse each patch in some way.
It was never in the original game if you played it.

I reported it as a bug almost a year ago and at that moment I was told “stfu it’s fine” basically.

now people are obviously more upset.

it wasn’t traditionally in the game. Which for me is a valid reason

I pretty much don’t like the majority of balance changes, I don’t feel like anything is changed but my personal favourite build has had nerfs in the double digits.

I might be wrong about this but I think taming is going to be the new necro pets. Annoying to get for ordinary players, collected en masse by other types of players and horrendously op. All the while the casual player will suffer immensely by the barriers to entry
 

bubbles

Member
Jul 1, 2020
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I think it would be sick if you could wear steel armor and still regen mana on a human
 

Update Journal

New member
Oct 8, 2021
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18kg is insanely heavy for a hybrid. Even as high as 10kg is too heavy
You can't have it all. If you want to do a plate mage at that weight you have to cope with the fact that your mana pool is fixed and will not recover unless you're able to break.
At least you can drop vitalism if that's your playstyle

however I can appreciate that we're given the malus in our character sheets.
The problem I have with the system is that even a pure mage is going to be wearing about 4 weight armor and the mana malus is about 20% (80% regen) even when it's that light
 
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Woody

Well-known member
Apr 4, 2021
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18kg is insanely heavy for a hybrid. Even as high as 10kg is too heavy
You can't have it all. If you want to do a plate mage at that weight you have to cope with the fact that your mana pool is fixed and will not recover unless you're able to break.
At least you can drop vitalism if that's your playstyle

however I can appreciate that we're given the malus in our character sheets.
The problem I have with the system is that even a pure mage is going to be wearing about 4 weight armor and the mana malus is about 20% (80% regen) even when it's that light
I believe the actual mage robes we're getting are going to be less than 2kg (which is the mana penalty start).
 

Eskaldar

Member
Jun 25, 2020
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18kg is insanely heavy for a hybrid. Even as high as 10kg is too heavy
You can't have it all. If you want to do a plate mage at that weight you have to cope with the fact that your mana pool is fixed and will not recover unless you're able to break.
At least you can drop vitalism if that's your playstyle

however I can appreciate that we're given the malus in our character sheets.
The problem I have with the system is that even a pure mage is going to be wearing about 4 weight armor and the mana malus is about 20% (80% regen) even when it's that light
It just turns out that as a meditation skill, ordinary fast magicians do not need it, as well as a fast hybrid, because they wear light armor and the mana regeneration skill in vitalism is enough for them. Then who is meditation for? What is shamanism for a human? They turn out to be useless. Because in medium and heavy armor, your regen is worse than without these skills, but without armor.
Here is an example:
0 meditation, Shamanistic Gift off, 0KG armor = 122 mana in 52,4 sec ; 2,32 mana/sec;
and
100 meditation, Shamanistic Gift on, 18.54KG armor = 122 mana in 3 minute and 47 seconds ; 0,53 mana/sec;
Even if you use 14 KG armor, your manaregen will still be worse than a person without meditation and shamanistic gift skills, but without armor.
That's what I'm trying to draw attention to.
 

Tzone

Well-known member
May 16, 2021
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Further testing they pretty much got rid of paladins and nerfed human hybrids for no reason. Just like the stam changes. No reason, no balance, less fun game.

Why was it a issue that humans could sit down and recover mana. That was mostly QoL. If the human could actually pull off regening mana by resting in a fight they, deserve it.

Please undo this "fix" @Henrik Nyström. Dont just make mo1 remastered. This was a good thing about the game that made more options.
 

Woody

Well-known member
Apr 4, 2021
349
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It just turns out that as a meditation skill, ordinary fast magicians do not need it, as well as a fast hybrid, because they wear light armor and the mana regeneration skill in vitalism is enough for them. Then who is meditation for? What is shamanism for a human? They turn out to be useless. Because in medium and heavy armor, your regen is worse than without these skills, but without armor.
Here is an example:
0 meditation, Shamanistic Gift off, 0KG armor = 122 mana in 52,4 sec ; 2,32 mana/sec;
and
100 meditation, Shamanistic Gift on, 18.54KG armor = 122 mana in 3 minute and 47 seconds ; 0,53 mana/sec;
Even if you use 14 KG armor, your manaregen will still be worse than a person without meditation and shamanistic gift skills, but without armor.
That's what I'm trying to draw attention to.
As far as I can tell, the armor weight % modifier to mana regen is applied last in the equation. Therefore, no matter how much you bump it up by through meditation, it's going to be reduced overall by the armor penalty amount. Having more base regen to begin with via meditation, will obviously still help more proportionately.

That said, Mages that aren't hitting the 2kg or 4kg (Cleric clade) cap, will still want the meditation primary as 26s vs 52s (using your example) is still significantly better.
 

Woody

Well-known member
Apr 4, 2021
349
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Further testing they pretty much got rid of paladins and nerfed human hybrids for no reason. Just like the stam changes. No reason, no balance, less fun game.

Why was it a issue that humans could sit down and recover mana. That was mostly QoL. If the human could actually pull off regening mana by resting in a fight they, deserve it.

Please undo this "fix" @Henrik Nyström. Dont just make mo1 remastered. This was a good thing about the game that made more options.
This common theme that the solution is to just undo changes because it's impacted the current meta is extremely short sighted.

Instead, if the intent from the beginning was that amour weight should impact mana regen while resting, then perhaps suggest something that takes this into account and offers something constructive in return. For example:

Meditation:
Additionally reduces the mana regen penalty from armor by 0-50% while resting
 
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Shmerrick

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Apr 13, 2021
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As a full tind magic user hybrid I don't have an issue with the change. The real question is if a 5 second delay to recover mana at a normal rate really an imporovment to the overall game or is it more of a hassle.
 

Belegar

Active member
Oct 16, 2021
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I think it would be sick if you could wear steel armor and still regen mana on a human
The point we are making is not passive regeng, but active: you have to sit down for a 1 minute to get the mana back. In the middle of a fight, this will be a very great risk in the first place.

It just turns out that as a meditation skill, ordinary fast magicians do not need it, as well as a fast hybrid, because they wear light armor and the mana regeneration skill in vitalism is enough for them. Then who is meditation for? What is shamanism for a human? They turn out to be useless. Because in medium and heavy armor, your regen is worse than without these skills, but without armor.
Very intresting point. And the Paladin is paying 200 skill points to wear the armour, 200 for Vitalism and Meditation and 1 glade gift for Cleric. Why is this seen as a problem? He is paying to have some form of a bonus/advantage. He wont hit as hard as a Thursar, nor is he as tough as an Oghmir.

Even the picture of the Cleric Glade Gift is a guy in full plate armour! Good luck even making a full plate armour lighter that 8kg where you need 4 kg for the full mana regen.

Why does SV want to kill off alternative classes like the Paladin and Fat Mage? Soon we will all be Foot Soldiers and Dex Mages with Pets.
 
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