primary skill, secondary skill and character knowledge

[Gulith]

Am i alone feeling that having more than half my skill points in character knowledge "skills"?
is mammalia knowledge or diary products knowledge supposed to limit your skill set?
remember the butcher build in mo1, and why people hated it? will there be enough butchers in mo2 who would want to waste their crafting part of their account into that?
And since we have 2 time less skill points per account with mo2, wouldn't it be better to separate all character knowledge "skills" from the primary skill point pool?
-> therefore, i propose a new category of skill, character knowledge skills: these are pretty much decaying secondary skills when you stop using it for a while.
feel free to tune out the idea or propose something better.

 

[Woody]

Am i alone feeling that having more than half my skill points in character knowledge "skills"?
is mammalia knowledge or diary products knowledge supposed to limit your skill set?
remember the butcher build in mo1, and why people hated it? will there be enough butchers in mo2 who would want to waste their crafting part of their account into that?
And since we have 2 time less skill points per account with mo2, wouldn't it be better to separate all character knowledge "skills" from the primary skill point pool?
-> therefore, i propose a new category of skill, character knowledge skills: these are pretty much decaying secondary skills when you stop using it for a while.
feel free to tune out the idea or propose something better.

I think it's more to the effect that you can specialise in the animal or material type specifically. Lores interact so heavily with crafting and using that specific material I think it makes sense to promote this as being able to specialise in it. That said your only primary point investment in the overarching lore is the parent which in using your example Mamilia gives you access fully to everything beneath that skill. E.g. you get to max all subskills under that for free (secondary skill points).

Not sure if this needs to be changed, maybe it does. That said, I think it's widely accepted that people don't like skill decay in any scenario and therefore you need a primary point consideration.

 

[Gulith]

I think it's more to the effect that you can specialise in the animal or material type specifically. Lores interact so heavily with crafting and using that specific material I think it makes sense to promote this as being able to specialise in it. That said your only primary point investment in the overarching lore is the parent which in using your example Mamilia gives you access fully to everything beneath that skill. E.g. you get to max all subskills under that for free (secondary skill points).

you would only specialize if you want to squeeze in multiple crafts on 1 character, or if there is not enough skill points to max out one craft.
you don't really specialize in one branch, or there would be "lore mastery" skill foreach secondaries.
Have you tried to make a full butcher? Do you know how sad you skill tree is?

That said, I think it's widely accepted that people don't like skill decay in any scenario and therefore you need a primary point consideration.

i didn't say i was for a decay that would make you connect each day just to stop it! ofc decay rate needs to be adjusted to its purpose.
it's not even supposed to be a constraint, it is supposed to simulate skill points without tapping into the pool.
It would allow then devs to add more interesting specialization primaries instead.
and without the primaries in knowledge, it's much easier to balance out the weight crafts have with another.

 

[Raknor]

Speaking for myself I hated the butcher build in the old days because we didn't have profession points, so a full butcher was basically a toon that was sitting at the butchery table while you ran a 2nd client hunting and running back and forth to the butcher toon that got to do exciting stuff like watching a timer run out.

Now a butcher can also be a hunter or whatever else he wants to be. You can easily even be a butcher and an armor crafter or pet equipment crafter or even a cook due to all of the overlap. And I have no idea what a "full butcher" even means - how many people are actually going to butcher a dragon? Are they not "full butchers" because they don't have the dragon lore? Are extractors only "full extractors" if they live next to the blast furnace?

 

[Gulith]

You can easily even be a butcher and an armor crafter or pet equipment crafter or even a cook due to all of the overlap.

no one is talking about half butchers half cook : but your butchery variety & cooking capabilities will be very limited.
If the range of what you can do fits your needs, then fine.
but you couldn't do a full armor crafter + a full weapon crafter, even with all the overlaps ... that's sad
-> people don't seem to realize that you only have 1 crafter now, not 4 like in mo1 ... and that crafting will be expanded ... and that new crafts will be added.
characters will be sadder and sadder like with mo1 ... you don't remember when butchery was introduced? and how necessary it was? not imagine a new craft comes in, and is as important as butchery ... or two , or three ... they will add more skill points yes but still, having to put 70% of your skill points in knowledge feels quite wrong.

And I have no idea what a "full butcher" even means - how many people are actually going to butcher a dragon? Are they not "full butchers" because they don't have the dragon lore? Are extractors only "full extractors" if they live next to the blast furnace?

a full butcher can extract all the top tier resources, except the legendary ones noone will ever see in their inventory.
-> it takes everything, unless some balance has been made from mo1 to mo2
And don't be fooled, like in mo1 people will buy new accounts to workaround this bad game design.

 

[Gulith]

Yea I'm thinking I can fit a lot, some taming, some butchery, armor. Can always respec easy stuff that you can do w/ water and leather like cooking/crafting.

yes you can fit 3 thirds of 3 crafts in of character, that not the point.
not everyone will craft only for their small character need.
the problem is that we don't have enough room for a one character per account game.
especially in a game where everything is crafted by player ...
some fields will be deserted, like in mo1. And when you can't find the stuff you want to try, you will understand why dead towns stays dead towns.

 

[Raknor]

but you couldn't do a full armor crafter + a full weapon crafter, even with all the overlaps ... that's sad

=== Edited due to missing skill in math ===

You can't be "full both" (as it should) but you can be pretty near it with human clade gits . For example if you don't mind not making handles out of wood and use animal materials or petrology you can do everything except master alloys



Or you can revert that logic and just not use petrology and go for botany, or you can make all armors except plate so you have more material options. Yes there are choices to be done, that is how its supposed to be. The game should not be designed for MO1 levels of populations because there will be no game if that happens again so go out and trade.

As for butchery you can be armor crafter and keep 4 zoo trees when human (3 if you want to make cronite armor) or even more zoo trees if you go for cooking / pet armor. That seems a pretty good deal to me.

If you want to be "full anything" you should be limited to just one profession and support skills (aka management/negotiation). The fact that most people are going for mixed builds will just make your specialist the more valuable when the time comes.

 

[Gulith]

The game should not be designed for MO1 levels of populations because there will be no game if that happens again so go out and trade.

People don't seem to understand my point:
MO1 wasn't designed for late MO1 levels of populations too ...
MO1 proposed even twice the trading skill points than mo2, but once you go too low, you cannot go back up again easily.
because when you reach a certain threshold, and you can't buy a basic gear when you are connected, then you can't go out, so you, cook / fisherman / butcher, you log out.
MO2 is x4 as susceptible to finish like mo1, since the dependence with other players has been multiplied by 4.
something has to be done, since devs won't up the min gear sold by vendors, won't put basic npc butcher / basic npc extractors etc ...
as i said before, think about the future of the game ... for devs will add more crafts over time, and the critical threshold will be higher.
it will be worsened by additional continents too, for it will spread crafters ...
the problem wasn't visible at the start of MO1 either ... let's not make the same mistake twice!
at least put basic npc butcher / basic npc extractors that are not as efficient as player, so when you reach a low pop ... it doesn't spiral down like mo1 with empty AH ...
as for 'emergency' npc gear crafters, they could have a queue so it wouldn't be effective at all in populated area, but would save the game on low pop, and on low pop areas ...

 

[Woody]

People don't seem to understand my point:
MO1 wasn't designed for late MO1 levels of populations too ...
MO1 proposed even twice the trading skill points than mo2, but once you go too low, you cannot go back up again easily.
because when you reach a certain threshold, and you can't buy a basic gear when you are connected, then you can't go out, so you, cook / fisherman / butcher, you log out.
MO2 is twice as susceptible to finish like mo1, since the dependence with other players has been multiplied by 2.
something has to be done, since devs won't up the min gear sold by vendors, won't put basic npc butcher / basic npc extractors etc ...
as i said before, think about the future of the game ... for devs will add more crafts over time, and the critical threshold will be higher.
it will be worsened by additional continents are added too, for it will spread crafters ...
the problem wasn't visible at the start of MO1 either ... let's not make the same mistake twice!
at least put basic npc butcher / basic npc extractors that are not as efficient as player, so when you reach a low pop ... it doesn't spiral down like mo1 with empty AH ...

Being sceptical and all is fine, however, you can't expect the devs to design their game around the idea of a low population.

 

[Gulith]

Being sceptical and all is fine, however, you can't expect the devs to design their game around the idea of a low population.

Let's not learn about mo1's mistakes then ...
Just try to visualize that you won't have your four crafters like in mo1 ... but only one ...
just try to visualize how faster mo1 would have gone down if you only had 1 crafter back then ...

 

[Woody]

Let's not learn about mo1's mistakes then ...
Just try to visualize that you won't have your four crafters like in mo1 ... but only one ...
just try to visualize how faster mo1 would have gone down if you only had 1 crafter back then ...

You can take learnings without sacrificing your game direction for the worst case scenarios.

 

[Raknor]

Let's not learn about mo1's mistakes then ...
Just try to visualize that you won't have your four crafters like in mo1 ... but only one ...
just try to visualize how faster mo1 would have gone down if you only had 1 crafter back then ...

I am visualizing something entirely different which is why I am not worried. I am visualizing for example that if MO2 population gets to that level the servers will shutdown and we can stop worrying about skill points