As the title of the thread states. One handed weapons, in my opinion, are bad. They are once again being left behind like they were in MO1 - and this currently shows in the state of what weapons people use.
Yes, I'm aware this is an unfinished product - but combat more and more is being left on the back burner for new content even though this is advertised as a combat alpha. To quote the words of @Sebastian Persson from Discord...
"What is closed combat alpha? The closed combat alpha is a chance for players to test out the game very early into development. It's a alpha focused on only combat and will play more like a regular multiplayer death match. We will use the testers feedback and bug reports to polish up this part of the game before the public can join in. "
Even though we continue to focus more on other things. I'm not complaining about new things, but we need to shift the focus of content for us as players back to what it was originally advertised as - the combat.
As for my point...
I'll go over a few things that are subjective, and objective. For the first half, I will start with the objective things. These are things people can go and test for themselves and get and or see the same results, they are not debatable.
I should also clarify. Spears and daggers are not apart of this conversation. Even though spears can be one handed, and daggers are naturally a one handed weapon; I feel both of these weapons even with their counterparts in MO1 never had much of a balance issue and were actually one of the stronger variants of weapons.
My focus is the one handed sword, the one handed axe, and the one handed mace.
Objective Items:
1.) The reach is shorter.
2.) The hitboxes are smaller / worse.
3.) The handle hitboxes are larger / worse.
4.) The damage is lower.
Subjective Items:
1.) They take, in my opinion, too much stamina to use.
2.) They swing much slower then they should.
3.) Their usefulness is non-existent.
So lets start from the top of the list, and work our way down. This again is all my opinion, but I am more than open to hear varying opinions. It should be preface I've used every weapon so far in MO2, and I've used every weapon in MO1 excluding fist weapons. I have experience in both games, using different materials, armor weights, races for different heights (In MO2) and for different attributes (In MO1).
1. The reach is shorter.
Given they are one handed weapons, this is okay. This is to be expected. But due to their shorter nature, this should in-turn allow the weapons to be more nimble. Faster. Their strength requirements should be re-balanced and looked at, and lowered flat IMO. This would help one handed weapons come out as a choice for speed > damage.
2. The hitboxes are smaller / worse.
Point number #1 has much in common with point number #2. Of course the hitboxes are going to be smaller, but in turn they are much worse. One handed axes are unusable in my opinion, and maces come in right after them. The only one hander that has some usability is the one handed swords. But even still, I feel their hitboxes could be re-adjusted to be a bit larger and less forgiving.
3. The handle hitboxes are larger / worse.
The hitboxes on one handed weapons are god awful. I'm sorry, and I know it will happen, someone will come into the thread and argue "but that means the hitboxes are accurate!!" I would rather have inaccurate handle hitboxes in exchange for better gameplay with one handers, rather than shit gameplay for 'realism' sake. Most people avoid one handed weapons for this reason alone.
4. The damage is lower.
The damage is just flat out lower in one handed weapons. Paired with terrible hitboxes in both the head / handle, as well as lower reach, with near the same stamina usage - even with or without a shield - makes these weapons near obsolete.
5. They take, in my opinion, too much stamina to use.
Yes, I believe one handed weapons take way to much stamina to use. The common argument I hear is that "one handed weapons can use shields though." however, I think from this fact alone does not justify the extreme stamina usage they incur for the 'ability' to use a shield. What if players don't want to use a shield? What if players utilize a lighter shield? They shouldn't balance stamina on weapons simply based off of this, the shield IT SELF should incur said penalty - not the weapon IMO.
6. They swing much slower then they should.
This is due to strength requirements being higher than they need to be, and overall the combat system is slowly being tweaked to increase combat speed overall. But I feel one handed weapons suffer the most currently because of it. Why exchange damage and reach for a worse hitbox and nearly the same swing speed? It just makes the weapon choices much more unappealing.
7. Their usefulness is non-existent.
I feel a culmination of points #1 through #6 make one handed weapons not good.
Opinions?
Yes, I'm aware this is an unfinished product - but combat more and more is being left on the back burner for new content even though this is advertised as a combat alpha. To quote the words of @Sebastian Persson from Discord...
"What is closed combat alpha? The closed combat alpha is a chance for players to test out the game very early into development. It's a alpha focused on only combat and will play more like a regular multiplayer death match. We will use the testers feedback and bug reports to polish up this part of the game before the public can join in. "
Even though we continue to focus more on other things. I'm not complaining about new things, but we need to shift the focus of content for us as players back to what it was originally advertised as - the combat.
As for my point...
I'll go over a few things that are subjective, and objective. For the first half, I will start with the objective things. These are things people can go and test for themselves and get and or see the same results, they are not debatable.
I should also clarify. Spears and daggers are not apart of this conversation. Even though spears can be one handed, and daggers are naturally a one handed weapon; I feel both of these weapons even with their counterparts in MO1 never had much of a balance issue and were actually one of the stronger variants of weapons.
My focus is the one handed sword, the one handed axe, and the one handed mace.
Objective Items:
1.) The reach is shorter.
2.) The hitboxes are smaller / worse.
3.) The handle hitboxes are larger / worse.
4.) The damage is lower.
Subjective Items:
1.) They take, in my opinion, too much stamina to use.
2.) They swing much slower then they should.
3.) Their usefulness is non-existent.
So lets start from the top of the list, and work our way down. This again is all my opinion, but I am more than open to hear varying opinions. It should be preface I've used every weapon so far in MO2, and I've used every weapon in MO1 excluding fist weapons. I have experience in both games, using different materials, armor weights, races for different heights (In MO2) and for different attributes (In MO1).
1. The reach is shorter.
Given they are one handed weapons, this is okay. This is to be expected. But due to their shorter nature, this should in-turn allow the weapons to be more nimble. Faster. Their strength requirements should be re-balanced and looked at, and lowered flat IMO. This would help one handed weapons come out as a choice for speed > damage.
2. The hitboxes are smaller / worse.
Point number #1 has much in common with point number #2. Of course the hitboxes are going to be smaller, but in turn they are much worse. One handed axes are unusable in my opinion, and maces come in right after them. The only one hander that has some usability is the one handed swords. But even still, I feel their hitboxes could be re-adjusted to be a bit larger and less forgiving.
3. The handle hitboxes are larger / worse.
The hitboxes on one handed weapons are god awful. I'm sorry, and I know it will happen, someone will come into the thread and argue "but that means the hitboxes are accurate!!" I would rather have inaccurate handle hitboxes in exchange for better gameplay with one handers, rather than shit gameplay for 'realism' sake. Most people avoid one handed weapons for this reason alone.
4. The damage is lower.
The damage is just flat out lower in one handed weapons. Paired with terrible hitboxes in both the head / handle, as well as lower reach, with near the same stamina usage - even with or without a shield - makes these weapons near obsolete.
5. They take, in my opinion, too much stamina to use.
Yes, I believe one handed weapons take way to much stamina to use. The common argument I hear is that "one handed weapons can use shields though." however, I think from this fact alone does not justify the extreme stamina usage they incur for the 'ability' to use a shield. What if players don't want to use a shield? What if players utilize a lighter shield? They shouldn't balance stamina on weapons simply based off of this, the shield IT SELF should incur said penalty - not the weapon IMO.
6. They swing much slower then they should.
This is due to strength requirements being higher than they need to be, and overall the combat system is slowly being tweaked to increase combat speed overall. But I feel one handed weapons suffer the most currently because of it. Why exchange damage and reach for a worse hitbox and nearly the same swing speed? It just makes the weapon choices much more unappealing.
7. Their usefulness is non-existent.
I feel a culmination of points #1 through #6 make one handed weapons not good.
Opinions?
