Old Weapon Stats

[Phen]

Yeah, we are talking about jadeite/flake poleaxes I assume?

I think the problem in spears mainly comes from the weapon head. It´s too heavy currently. If they tweak it down a little it should be fine.



I assume it´s about the amount of material used, which correlate with weight and thus blunt damage. Lower the mats, lower the weight, lower blunt. I would like to have slider for that, but I guess that´s not gonna happen.

Oh i wish we had sliders again. Then i would be making some really dumb stuff. The head itself is fine on most of the spears, its just that long spear head has some odd weight when putting metal in it. Almost as if they don't want fast spears. The better spears i've made are around 1.6 with only 29 piercing, which is alright, but when i add steel the weight bounces right up to 2.6 or something and even with the lightest core and grip it stays to high in weight. Though most of the spears around 2-3.2 are very good spears if you don't mind taking some speed loss in the release. The 3.2 weight is 62 str B-16.76, P- 42.15, S-9.32. I'm just going to take a wild guess that they messed with the heads to slow down the spears so they aren't over doing all the other weapons.

 

[Eldrath]

Oh i wish we had sliders again. Then i would be making some really dumb stuff. The head itself is fine on most of the spears, its just that long spear head has some odd weight when putting metal in it. Almost as if they don't want fast spears. The better spears i've made are around 1.6 with only 29 piercing, which is alright, but when i add steel the weight bounces right up to 2.6 or something and even with the lightest core and grip it stays to high in weight. Though most of the spears around 2-3.2 are very good spears if you don't mind taking some speed loss in the release. The 3.2 weight is 62 str B-16.76, P- 42.15, S-9.32. I'm just going to take a wild guess that they messed with the heads to slow down the spears so they aren't over doing all the other weapons.

Well, if spear were super fast what would be the point in daggers?

Currently you can make very light, very high pierce daggers. They do weight around 1 kg. A spear with similar p damage weights 2,4kg I believe. That is fair considering the reach of a spear.

 

[Phen]

Well, if spear were super fast what would be the point in daggers?

Currently you can make very light, very high pierce daggers. They do weight around 1 kg. A spear with similar p damage weights 2,4kg I believe. That is fair considering the reach of a spear.

I have no issues with them, i just think they have changed something sense the prepatch ones with the materials. It's just not able to make the same one that they had made is all. I think the crafting is going fine, made enough of everything, the weapons seems plenty balanced when made properly.

 

[Dracu]

Spears are a bit too heavy but should not be as light as they were before patch. Somewhere between now and pre-patch would be great. It was just awful seeing a long ass spear overhead counter attack that was faster than a katana.

On the other end of the spectrum, pole-axes. They can be made entirely too light at the moment and look absolutely ridiculous. Some of them are swinging as fast as daggers. It's an incredibly long pole with a metal head. Swinging faster than a 1h weapon should be impossible.

TL;DR - Spears are too heavy and poleaxes are too light. It makes no physical sense.

iam honestly just mad with new spears. Wouldnt even use them anymore in teamfights due to to high stam drain. The low weight (still higher then swords,poleaxes) do to bad damage. Prepatch they were already outdamaged by everything but now the weapon fell from what i have seen out o viable weapons.

Imagine adding a shield to the mix, instant out of stam and okay dmg or to low dmg with good speed that is not viable.

This patch is the return to sword only meta yay.

 

[Dracu]

Well, if spear were super fast what would be the point in daggers?

Currently you can make very light, very high pierce daggers. They do weight around 1 kg. A spear with similar p damage weights 2,4kg I believe. That is fair considering the reach of a spear.

Not really a weapon of weight 1 is insane, you gotta add ping to the consideration.

Imagine a eu player fighting a us player with a 1 weight weapon and us player is supposed to block counters with it.

1.8 weight is in the blockable category. 1 weight isnt its in the preblock range.

>2 kg is to slow for viable duelling imo as its to slow. Yes its just .2 weight more but every ms counts in the end.

 

[Rhias]

Kind of disappointed that there is no slashing dagger...
Right now we got 3 craftable daggers that scale their weight and damage somewhat linear. But no one that is really different than the other ones.
Maybe my memory is bad, but if I remember correctly the pre-patch daggers where more different then just scaled up or down in weight and damage.

 

[Dracu]

Kind of disappointed that there is no slashing dagger...
Right now we got 3 craftable daggers that scale their weight and damage somewhat linear. But no one that is really different than the other ones.
Maybe my memory is bad, but if I remember correctly the pre-patch daggers where more different then just scaled up or down in weight and damage.

THey were, there was a dagger with pretty sameish slashing pircing Around 26ish

 

[Rhias]

THey were, there was a dagger with pretty sameish slashing pircing Around 26ish

Sad that it is gone. Was my favorite one.

 

[Dracu]

Sad that it is gone. Was my favorite one.

WAs the only viable one yeah, only one working attack direction is just not viable.

 

[Rhias]

And what happened to the flanged and star mace?
They both weight now almost the same and their only difference is that star mace got ~2 bashing more and ~2 slashing less.
And the weight... Not quite sure what they were pre patch, but pretty sure they were lighter than 4kg. :/ More like < 3kg.

 

[Dracu]

And what happened to the flanged and star mace?
They both weight now almost the same and their only difference is that star mace got ~2 bashing more and ~2 slashing less.
And the weight... Not quite sure what they were pre patch, but pretty sure they were lighter than 4kg. :/ More like < 3kg.

Yep the maces also lost alot of viability from what i saw. Like i mentioned earlier its the age of sword online again with their <1.6 weight.

 

[Eldrath]

Not really a weapon of weight 1 is insane, you gotta add ping to the consideration.

Imagine a eu player fighting a us player with a 1 weight weapon and us player is supposed to block counters with it.

1.8 weight is in the blockable category. 1 weight isnt its in the preblock range.

>2 kg is to slow for viable duelling imo as its to slow. Yes its just .2 weight more but every ms counts in the end.

There are tons of viable weapons at weight 1. Even a flakestone two handed sword is nearly unblockable. If we don´t want unblockable weapons the combat mechanics have to change, not the crafting. So maybe the fastest possible swing speed (click to damage speed) (chargespeed is the same for every weapon afaik) needs to be higher.

I´m not a fan of basing weapon and crafting feedback mostly on duels. Weapons that good for dueling will be a very narrow category, because they have to have a certain speed. The same is not true in group fights.

I think crafting wise the best solution would be to take down material consumption on the long spear head about 10% and take it from there.

The same is sorta true for the mace heads, since they seem very top heavy as well. The pre-patch flanged mace was based on the MO1 weapon, which if you guys remember, was super tiny. That´s why it was so light. The new one is huge, which is why it´s heavy. Haven´t played around with it much though.

One-handed axes seem to be in a decent place. I wish there was a longer handle though. Length is very sameish on the two longest handles.

 

[Dracu]

There are tons of viable weapons at weight 1. Even a flakestone two handed sword is nearly unblockable. If we don´t want unblockable weapons the combat mechanics have to change, not the crafting. So maybe the fastest possible swing speed (click to damage speed) (chargespeed is the same for every weapon afaik) needs to be higher.

I´m not a fan of basing weapon and crafting feedback mostly on duels. Weapons that good for dueling will be a very narrow category, because they have to have a certain speed. The same is not true in group fights.

I think crafting wise the best solution would be to take down material consumption on the long spear head about 10% and take it from there.

The same is sorta true for the mace heads, since they seem very top heavy as well. The pre-patch flanged mace was based on the MO1 weapon, which if you guys remember, was super tiny. That´s why it was so light. The new one is huge, which is why it´s heavy. Haven´t played around with it much though.

One-handed axes seem to be in a decent place. I wish there was a longer handle though. Length is very sameish on the two longest handles.

yeah i asked for a speed cap since months by now... never got any response, i knew the crafting would make issues regarding swing speed.
Sure teamfights are not duells. But duells are a great place to actually find the proper issues in weapon the design.
But its no magic to read the stats and see whats viable where, ofc a heavy weapon could sometimes work in teamfight since its always situational.
A 10 kilo mace might get a hit on somebody in a teamfight, but thats not saying its automaticly a viable first choice weapon.

 

[Eldrath]

yeah i asked for a speed cap since months by now... never got any response, i knew the crafting would make issues regarding swing speed.
Sure teamfights are not duells. But duells are a great place to actually find the proper issues in weapon the design.
But its no magic to read the stats and see whats viable where, ofc a heavy weapon could sometimes work in teamfight since its always situational.
A 10 kilo mace might get a hit on somebody in a teamfight, but thats not saying its automaticly a viable first choice weapon.

Sounds like there needs to be a lot more testing in group situations then. Giving feedback on stats will be flawed to the extreme.

I would love to see a speed cap though. I don´t think any weapons ripost should be impossible to parry for someone who is "allowed" to play the game. By which I mean who has a legal ping.

 

[Rhias]

There are tons of viable weapons at weight 1. Even a flakestone two handed sword is nearly unblockable. If we don´t want unblockable weapons the combat mechanics have to change, not the crafting. So maybe the fastest possible swing speed (click to damage speed) (chargespeed is the same for every weapon afaik) needs to be higher.

I´m not a fan of basing weapon and crafting feedback mostly on duels. Weapons that good for dueling will be a very narrow category, because they have to have a certain speed. The same is not true in group fights.

I think crafting wise the best solution would be to take down material consumption on the long spear head about 10% and take it from there.

The same is sorta true for the mace heads, since they seem very top heavy as well. The pre-patch flanged mace was based on the MO1 weapon, which if you guys remember, was super tiny. That´s why it was so light. The new one is huge, which is why it´s heavy. Haven´t played around with it much though.

One-handed axes seem to be in a decent place. I wish there was a longer handle though. Length is very sameish on the two longest handles.

I'm pretty sure that pre-patch flanged mace was heavier than MO1 flanged mace.

 

[PatWins]

iam honestly just mad with new spears. Wouldnt even use them anymore in teamfights due to to high stam drain. The low weight (still higher then swords,poleaxes) do to bad damage. Prepatch they were already outdamaged by everything but now the weapon fell from what i have seen out o viable weapons.

Imagine adding a shield to the mix, instant out of stam and okay dmg or to low dmg with good speed that is not viable.

This patch is the return to sword only meta yay.

I wouldn't get too hopped on the "meta" yet. Pretty sure they are just trying to make sure the system works. Balance and values can be tweaked with feedback.

 

[Dracu]

I wouldn't get too hopped on the "meta" yet. Pretty sure they are just trying to make sure the system works. Balance and values can be tweaked with feedback.

i dont know, i just fear that its a overcomplicated system that cant be tweaked to the needed stats that would result in a complete weapon balance.

 

[Eldrath]

i dont know, i just fear that its a overcomplicated system that cant be tweaked to the needed stats that would result in a complete weapon balance.

Judging by the comments made by both Seb and Herius today that is false. It is being worked on. There is no reason to panic.

 

[ThaBadMan]

i dont know, i just fear that its a overcomplicated system that cant be tweaked to the needed stats that would result in a complete weapon balance.

Thats what I have told Henrik since before MO1 release.

Dont have overcomplicated system for complexities sake, its better to have a basic simple system if you can tweak it into a balanced state easily rather than a system where every single minor change can ruin balance across the board as with MO1s overcomplicated system did.

That is why imo they have a dumbed down version of that atm in MO2, but they could simplify it further Id say.

 

[ThaBadMan]

Judging by the comments made by both Seb and Herius today that is false. It is being worked on. There is no reason to panic.

Yes they can ofc tweak but its way more time consuming than it has to and a simple straight forward change can possibly change very much.

This will be better in MO2 if crafting as is is gonna stay, as in designed handles and heads for each category.