Old Weapon Stats

[Dracu]

Okay folks, some time has passed we could tip our toes into the water that is mo2 crafting.
An exciting journey indeed and we will continue to see lots of wierd stuff.

But while testing the new material stats iam personally a bit dissapointed in how specific weapons have lost their uniqunes which we had before Patch.
Here two examples which were dear to me.

Swords:
Swords are fast now... hella fast. Before Patch every sword was viable ..... besides the claymore which was wierd.
But every sword felt unique in its stats.... the new patch kinda removed this. It doesnt feel like different playstyle options.
Now its just speed...
standart Zweihaender slowest weapon in game with 2.4 speed.... 1.6 speed now and has the longest reach, no reason to use anything else atm.
The Messer got a huge weight nerf making it a undesirable weapon with barely any aditional damage.

Spears:
These things got heavy! way to heavy, its either fast andso bad stats that its basicly nothing or Heavy and slow with big stam drain...I know alot of people didnt like spears.... but this is bad for them. They were in a good spot pre patch...maybe not the best but they were a viable weapon... now they arent,they even lost viability for group fights due to increased stam drain.

Its good that all these material values can be tweaked... and it would be great if they will based on the old values we had.
Better materials may increase or decrease some aspects but use the old weapons as base.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I also liked the old values since most weapons had their uses and the general balance between different weapon types.

So far im not impressed with the different values I have tested.

 

[Eldrath]

I think it´s way too early (24h after the patch went life) to talk fixes, but we can use this thread to pool feedback.

The old values were exact copies of weapons from MO1 for the most part. They are trying to make weapon crafting interesting again. Just going back to the values from MO1 won´t help with that. I think if you want to give feedback you should do it on the basis of the current crafting, not the old one.

Also please write down what materials you used, the weight, the handle etc. How are the devs supposed to act on this?

 

[Dracu]

I think it´s way too early (24h after the patch went life) to talk fixes, but we can use this thread to pool feedback.

The old values were exact copies of weapons from MO1 for the most part. They are trying to make weapon crafting interesting again. Just going back to the values from MO1 won´t help with that. I think if you want to give feedback you should do it on the basis of the current crafting, not the old one.

to be fair, i tried to recreate a spear that would be viable like the pre patch weapons... wasnt able to and i tried aloooot. Like all combos available to see if i could find a combo that would make it viable... was unable to find one, and i tried every core, head combo, wood on handle for low weight aside.

Also swords are now all about getting in the ridiculous speed area.

 

[KermyWormy]

I logged about 80 crafts yesterday evening and got the sense that they mostly just nerfed the amount of weight the handle materials were adding overall to the weapon to encourage other than spongewood use, and the discrepancy comparing old and new I think might be from how much the new handle types which weren't copy pasta are set to use material wise, which mostly becomes a problem with long poles...but I consider what I've logged so far to be a very very small sample and need to do more.

In regards to spears specifically, I personally think they need to be balanced medium/lower dmg and medium speed within the whole spectrum of weapons, I really think spammy high dmg spears are janky.

 

[barcode]

standart Zweihaender slowest weapon in game with 2.4 speed.... 1.6 speed now

how are you coming up with speeds? is it minimum time from charge start to release or time to fill the charge circle or ... ?

-barcode

 

[Eldrath]

to be fair, i tried to recreate a spear that would be viable like the pre patch weapons... wasnt able to and i tried aloooot. Like all combos available to see if i could find a combo that would make it viable... was unable to find one, and i tried every core, head combo, wood on handle for low weight aside.

Also swords are now all about getting in the ridiculous speed area.

Yeah spears are tough. I think the heads take too much materials, that´s why they are heavy. On the other hand I felt the "pre-patch" spear were too light for their damage. Somewhat viable are flakestone/dapple/flakestone spears. There is a big divide between those and heavy steel spears though.

Keep in mind that the materials consumed related to the weight, which relates to the blunt damage. Getting 40 pierce damage for under 2 kg weight with a veeery long reach seem OP to me.

Edit:

Daggers can get super high pierce damage with very little weight.

 

[Dracu]

how are you coming up with speeds? is it minimum time from charge start to release or time to fill the charge circle or ... ?

-barcode

was supposed to be weight not speed xD
Speed is affected by weight though.

 

[Phen]

Okay folks, some time has passed we could tip our toes into the water that is mo2 crafting.
An exciting journey indeed and we will continue to see lots of wierd stuff.

But while testing the new material stats iam personally a bit dissapointed in how specific weapons have lost their uniqunes which we had before Patch.
Here two examples which were dear to me.

Swords:
Swords are fast now... hella fast. Before Patch every sword was viable ..... besides the claymore which was wierd.
But every sword felt unique in its stats.... the new patch kinda removed this. It doesnt feel like different playstyle options.
Now its just speed...
standart Zweihaender slowest weapon in game with 2.4 speed.... 1.6 speed now and has the longest reach, no reason to use anything else atm.
The Messer got a huge weight nerf making it a undesirable weapon with barely any aditional damage.

Spears:
These things got heavy! way to heavy, its either fast andso bad stats that its basicly nothing or Heavy and slow with big stam drain...I know alot of people didnt like spears.... but this is bad for them. They were in a good spot pre patch...maybe not the best but they were a viable weapon... now they arent,they even lost viability for group fights due to increased stam drain.

Its good that all these material values can be tweaked... and it would be great if they will based on the old values we had.
Better materials may increase or decrease some aspects but use the old weapons as base.

That 1.6 weight zweily is weak in dura. Super weak. under 100 durra isn't good.... the 2.4 that i made was nearly 260 dura.. i also think the spears are fine, mine are anywhere from 1.3-2.6<-- if i want over 40 piercing stats. I think they tweaked it enough to were durability is a bigger factor then before.

Though i agree the speeds of the weapons have gone up and the durability won't matter if everyone carries 4 of the same weapon. Though i can say with some trial and error i've been able to remake all of the weapons that they had in before the crafting era patch. I think we need more mats to really see these weapons have the variation of play styles. We cant even make a maul properly without the bone nor are we getting to build with leather that gives good weak spot. I think as time goes on, the durability of the weapons will have a greater impact than the speed of them. Only reason i say that is because those equipment hits on weapons should really damage the weapons ( bows shields too ) durability, they should break quickly as the materials don't truly support the weapon as intended.

Overall I think everything is going fine, though i wish for more damage from weapons to transfer into the durability loss when hit by another weapon. Then the weak gear will really start to show its true value.

 

[Dracu]

That 1.6 weight zweily is weak in dura. Super weak. under 100 durra isn't good.... the 2.4 that i made was nearly 260 dura.. i also think the spears are fine, mine are anywhere from 1.3-2.6<-- if i want over 40 piercing stats. I think they tweaked it enough to were durability is a bigger factor then before.

Though i agree the speeds of the weapons have gone up and the durability won't matter if everyone carries 4 of the same weapon. Though i can say with some trial and error i've been able to remake all of the weapons that they had in before the crafting era patch. I think we need more mats to really see these weapons have the variation of play styles. We cant even make a maul properly without the bone nor are we getting to build with leather that gives good weak spot. I think as time goes on, the durability of the weapons will have a greater impact than the speed of them. Only reason i say that is because those equipment hits on weapons should really damage the weapons ( bows shields too ) durability, they should break quickly as the materials don't truly support the weapon as intended.

Overall I think everything is going fine, though i wish for more damage from weapons to transfer into the durability loss when hit by another weapon. Then the weak gear will really start to show its true value.

Would love to see you make a prepatch messer, prepatch spear, like i said the spear combos tried them out. No way to get a long spear that is close to the prepatch stats. Piercing is not the only important stat. The under 2kg long soear weapons have unviable stats, the above 2kg get close in damage but unviable weight.

 

[Phen]

Would love to see you make a prepatch messer, prepatch spear, like i said the spear combos tried them out. No way to get a long spear that is close to the prepatch stats. Piercing is not the only important stat. The under 2kg long soear weapons have unviable stats, the above 2kg get close in damage but unviable weight.

Okay so you want the prepatch messer, what spear do you want?

 

[Dracu]

Okay so you want the prepatch messer, what spear do you want?

Prepatch long spear, longest handle and long spear head.
I send you the stats per discord then you can see that its not possible.

 

[Eldrath]

That pre-patch spear was OP compared to the other weapons though.

 

[Dracu]

That pre-patch spear was OP compared to the other weapons though.

Nah it wasnt. It was only good against people who never really practised against it. It was a weapon putdamaged by every other weapon. It could never hit trade. It was viable in duells but not the necessary first choice. The people that were really devastating with it could be counted on one hand but those were people who would dominate with other weapons too tbh.

I never had issues against the prepatch spears when used against me and i was always fighting spears with swords.

Edit: it also handled alot.

 

[Eldrath]

Nah it wasnt. It was only good against people who never really practised against it. It was a weapon putdamaged by every other weapon. It could never hit trade. It was viable in duells but not the necessary first choice. The people that were really devastating with it could be counted on one hand but those were people who would dominate with other weapons too tbh.

I never had issues against the prepatch spears when used against me and i was always fighting spears with swords.

Edit: it also handled alot.

It provided high pierce damage for under 2 kg of weight with longest reach in the game. I think considering group fights that you get too much for your stamina. Handlehits are not as important if you are hitting the backline. The stamina drain on all other one handed weapons that dealt similar damage was much much higher.

You might be right for duels but in group fights I think they were too good for what they were.

 

[Dracu]

It provided high pierce damage for under 2 kg of weight with longest reach in the game. I think considering group fights that you get too much for your stamina. Handlehits are not as important if you are hitting the backline. The stamina drain on all other one handed weapons that dealt similar damage was much much higher.

You might be right for duels but in group fights I think they were too good for what they were.

Yeah in group fights they shined, but never went backlining with them, the only good damage is piercing and when ppl sit in backline middle blocking you cant do much. Slashes are relativley harder to hit if you have to move around that much.
Only good for 2v1 and stickybacking.
The damage kinda dependet on the amror though. A risar armor could lower the damage significantly. Ofc if somebody would wear kallardian or khurite armor the damage is pretty high since they both offer super weak piercing deffense. Especially the kallardian 40+ head damage.

 

[Phen]

After doing the tests again, It does look like the spear is off by some, I can't get the str requirements to match with the weight as they had it in prepatch. Also the damage is nearly 10 lower then it too. Overall the weapon is still viable just not as strong. I could have done something wrong but i feel like we are missing a material that would fill that spot. Maalite or Nyx maybe? Though i did make the messer and i feel like mines a bit better then the pre patch.

rossmesser/Grossmesser Pre-Patch

2.55

57.32

14.51

15.50

27.38

rossmesser/Grossmesser Crafted

2.5

60.09

13.95

27.13

25.80

PrePatch Long AF Spear is 1.83kg, 66.05 str, B-10.04, P-38.01, S-14.68
Crafted Long AF Spear is 1.83kg, 38.67 str, B-10.19, P-29.54, S-6.77 ( Closest i could get while keeping the weight at same / low in any way. )

Most of the spears i made around 1.9 weight would never have the str around 66.05 with the materials they have supplied us. Making me think they changed that material some to stop high damage low weight spears. The material i speak of is Flakestone... The oh so holy stone of speed...

 

[PatWins]

Spears are a bit too heavy but should not be as light as they were before patch. Somewhere between now and pre-patch would be great. It was just awful seeing a long ass spear overhead counter attack that was faster than a katana.

On the other end of the spectrum, pole-axes. They can be made entirely too light at the moment and look absolutely ridiculous. Some of them are swinging as fast as daggers. It's an incredibly long pole with a metal head. Swinging faster than a 1h weapon should be impossible.

TL;DR - Spears are too heavy and poleaxes are too light. It makes no physical sense.

 

[Phen]

Spears are a bit too heavy but should not be as light as they were before patch. Somewhere between now and pre-patch would be great. It was just awful seeing a long ass spear overhead counter attack that was faster than a katana.

On the other end of the spectrum, pole-axes. They can be made entirely too light at the moment and look absolutely ridiculous. Some of them are swinging as fast as daggers. It's an incredibly long pole with a metal head. Swinging faster than a 1h weapon should be impossible.

TL;DR - Spears are too heavy and poleaxes are too light. It makes no physical sense.

i agree they should add something with the length of weapons adding some weight. the poleaxes I've been making are 3.4-4.5 and seem to be just fine with the higher durability, i just want the durability damage to go up so those quick weapon break fast because they aren't fitting for the game. Maybe make a under 100 durability increase the damage to durability? Then just attacking their weapon would break it in no time vs a well built weapon.

Though with the spears i just think the metals are to heavy on the heads for whatever reason. If it is to slow down the speedy spears then i guess they fixed that...

 

[Eldrath]

Spears are a bit too heavy but should not be as light as they were before patch. Somewhere between now and pre-patch would be great. It was just awful seeing a long ass spear overhead counter attack that was faster than a katana.

On the other end of the spectrum, pole-axes. They can be made entirely too light at the moment and look absolutely ridiculous. Some of them are swinging as fast as daggers. It's an incredibly long pole with a metal head. Swinging faster than a 1h weapon should be impossible.

TL;DR - Spears are too heavy and poleaxes are too light. It makes no physical sense.

Yeah, we are talking about jadeite/flake poleaxes I assume?

I think the problem in spears mainly comes from the weapon head. It´s too heavy currently. If they tweak it down a little it should be fine.

Though with the spears i just think the metals are to heavy on the heads for whatever reason. If it is to slow down the speedy spears then i guess they fixed that...

I assume it´s about the amount of material used, which correlate with weight and thus blunt damage. Lower the mats, lower the weight, lower blunt. I would like to have slider for that, but I guess that´s not gonna happen.