(Nullsec) Lawless areas and distributing players away from towns to get PvP away from towns.

Tzone

Well-known member
May 16, 2021
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Getting players outside of cities

Most PvP Still occurs around towns which the red priest change was supposed to fix but the reason PvP occurs around town is because that is the main location of players and player vs players needs players. Its mcdonalds PvP as you get fast, reliable, but mediocre guardzone PvP.

So the solution to fixing this problem is to get people to leave towns and group up elsewhere.
Look at why people are grouped up in towns. They have banks, grinders/crusher, workbenches, refining, libaries, and everything you need to play the game. They are centralized source of production. You gather your materials and then bring them back to town to craft/level crafting.

Two paths that could be taken is to move things like crushers/grinders, furnaces/refining, to protected camps outside of towns.
I think the more likely path would be second of having these production camps outside of towns that have doubles of each appliance so players can double their production speed.

Have two types of camps a grinder/crusher camp. And then a refining extracting camp.
Each camp will have a small bank with maybe 12 slots that cant take bags or 2 that can take bags, a stable, and guards.
The camps should be far enough away that people could be attacked on the way there but its still convenient to go to them.
Need to make sure there are not funnels from the camps to town so people could take different paths to get back to town to avoid people.

Not only do these camps give a reason for players to leave towns but they also give safe places for players to flee to. Many bandit camps almost never get touched because its too far away from town for people to safety get to. I also ask to add scoundrel camps to near these camps to facilitate noobs leaving graveyards as the PvE goes from easy zombies to challenging bandits. There needs to be a medium level.

I think to keep game balance the devs might want to lower the amount each appliance could produce then increase the amount of appliance in those camps to make them attractive. Like making furnaces only take a half of the mats at once but putting furnaces in the camp. So you dont double the production of stuff from furnaces compared to now but you only increase it by 1.5. I think more things need to happen with material balancing but thats a different talk.

Now for the lawless areas.

If a guard didnt see it then it didnt happen. You want to have a immersive experience but have a magical criminal system.
Also the issue of not knowing the boundaries of where is lawless and not lawless.
To solve these issues put around the towns, town camps, roads, and other protected areas guard towers that have "long ranges of detection".

Each tower will have 3/4 render range radius that if any criminal (grey not negative reputation) enters or criminal activity occurs a dice roll will happen to see if they are seen and the penalty is applied. At half render range the roll is 100% success rate. This makes it fair for players as they have the ability some way to avoid these guard towers and know the boundries of where it is ok to PvP and not ok to PvP.

Have priest work similarly but at a smaller radius. Except for red towns.

After this place guard camps in the world similar to bandit camps. With the purpose of having a area for players to flee too which will encourage them to get out and away from towns. These guard camps should be attackable by players and with no elite archer guards. They should server as a way to give a fighting chance to fleeing players. A band of red players could wipe out a camp to kill the blue players inside which would now have a couple of NPCs to provide backup. These camps should really only be near roads and other places of traffic as quarter way or mid way points. This give some way for solo players the sense that they could run to some sort of group for protection.

These camps can end up being the reverse of bandit camps for red players. Where in the future there would be bandit rep and we could farm the guards or gold like we already farm them at the towns.

Another thing that could be done is to bring back murderer titles, but you can only gain these from kills in the lawless areas away from towns.

All past systems have not stopped noob killing and ended up back firing and making the game over all worse.
 

Tashka

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2021
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Don't forget the extraction press please. I have a feeling that they'll add crushers and ovens to the wilderness but completely forget that alchemists exist too.
Oh SV and please don't forget about MK/eastern steppe too.
 
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Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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With the upcoming patch going to be a disappointment for the current and ongoing PvP issues with the game I'm asking for the devs to once against consider top stop trying to punish people for PvP which only makes your core quit the game, and instead work on making hotspots of people outside of cities that will draw the PvPers to them instead of towns where noobs will be around.
 

Myta

Member
Feb 25, 2022
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which only makes your core quit the game

No its not.
This core will not quit the game, but catering to this core will kill the game.

The dream game of what you call the core, a game which seems to consist of a huge population of pve players that they can slaughter all day without punishment is never going to exist. Because the pve players will not like that, so they just go somewhere else like they did in MO1, or in every other mmo in existance that only catered to pks.

There is a huge amount of pve mmos for the pve players to go. But only a small amount of pvp mmos. And the pks need pve players, the pve players dont really need pks, a small amount adds excitement, too many gets annoying really quickly.
This is why the only pvp focused mmos that work, are the ones that focus on making the pve players happy.
Making pve players happy: The pks will stick around anyway because they dont have another choice, and a large pve population is good for them anyway.
Making pks happy: The pve players will leave, which makes the pks unhappy too, then the game is dead.

Right now I can only think of two full loot pvp focused mmos that are really successfull, thats albion online and eve online. Both feature very strong protections random pks, and as a result have large population, which leads to pvp actually happenig.
And before someone mentiones UO before trammel: the argument did not fully apply there, because it was nearly the only mmo, so the large number of alternatives didnt exist, but still, trammel probably saved uo from being killed too, there was a huge increase in players afterwards.
 

Tashka

Well-known member
Dec 4, 2021
666
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This core will not quit the game
People already quit because they hate running parcels just to be able to participate in PvP. New players are learning the game right now but once they've seen most of there is to see they will want to PvP because it's the most interesting thing to do here. And they will realize that they just can't.

And the pks need pve players
Nope.
 

Kurbb

Member
Sep 13, 2021
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No its not.
This core will not quit the game, but catering to this core will kill the game.

The dream game of what you call the core, a game which seems to consist of a huge population of pve players that they can slaughter all day without punishment is never going to exist. Because the pve players will not like that, so they just go somewhere else like they did in MO1, or in every other mmo in existance that only catered to pks.

There is a huge amount of pve mmos for the pve players to go. But only a small amount of pvp mmos. And the pks need pve players, the pve players dont really need pks, a small amount adds excitement, too many gets annoying really quickly.
This is why the only pvp focused mmos that work, are the ones that focus on making the pve players happy.
Making pve players happy: The pks will stick around anyway because they dont have another choice, and a large pve population is good for them anyway.
Making pks happy: The pve players will leave, which makes the pks unhappy too, then the game is dead.

Right now I can only think of two full loot pvp focused mmos that are really successfull, thats albion online and eve online. Both feature very strong protections random pks, and as a result have large population, which leads to pvp actually happenig.
And before someone mentiones UO before trammel: the argument did not fully apply there, because it was nearly the only mmo, so the large number of alternatives didnt exist, but still, trammel probably saved uo from being killed too, there was a huge increase in players afterwards.
youre in the wrong game if you think PVE is the draw here. i dont think you understand what MO actually is. Its not a dungeon crawling get loot game. Its a murder people, skin them, and eat them game.

The problem isnt the PKers, its people like you who are too scared to die, or refuse to learn to fight in a pvp game. UO wasnt the only MMO asherons call was a thing and also had full loot pvp. You carebears demand protection, when you should learn to fight. If you dont like getting killed by a player, you need to not play this game. ID rather not have pvers everywhere that take all the resources from the people actually using them to fight. All the pvers do is horde the stuff. Like we already said, you guys will quit because the game isnt made for you
 

Kurbb

Member
Sep 13, 2021
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People already quit because they hate running parcels just to be able to participate in PvP. New players are learning the game right now but once they've seen most of there is to see they will want to PvP because it's the most interesting thing to do here. And they will realize that they just can't.


Nope.

these people refuse to understand this. Once the new players gettheir gear skills up, what are they gonna do? Keep grinding the same mats? Nah theyre gonna want to try to pvp, die, then quit. Its literally the cycle with games like this, its not the game, its carebear people.
 

Myta

Member
Feb 25, 2022
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Its a murder people, skin them, and eat them game.

If you think that, maybe you should read what Star Vault says what the game is supposed to be then. Its right on the front page https://www.mortalonline2.com/
Yes you can murder skin and eat people. But thats not all the game is about. This is a general problem with sandbox mmos like MO. They have full loot pvp as a feature, which sets them apart from the usual wow clones, this attracts people that like that aspect obviously, and a (usually very vocal) subgroup of this people thinks that is all this is about, and tries to reduce the game to THIS IS A HARDCORE PVP GAME!!!!, ignoring that the other aspects have to work too, otherwise its just a gankbox, which then usually kills the game if the devs listen to that group.

its people like you who are too scared to die, or refuse to learn to fight in a pvp game (...) You carebears (...) Like we already said, you guys will quit because the game isnt made for you

You obviously know even less about me, than you do about what MO2 is supposed to be.
I like pvp, I like the risk of being attacked, I like hunting other players. I have played UO as a red and as a blue, I have spent most of my time in eve in Nullsec, and in Albion in the black zone. I have tried most MMOs that promise a pvp centered approach precisely because I like that and its so rare otherwise.
But when playing a Sandbox MMO, I want more than just pvp, I also want a world that feels alive with lots of different players that do different things. Traders, a living economy. Basically exactly the vision that Star Vault has for MO2. If I just wanted a pure pvp game with nothing else I will play other games that have a higher skill ceiling and are better optimized for that. And this kind of Sandbox game only can exist when enough player with enough different playstyles are happy, so I have to consider not only what I want to play, but also what others want to play, to get them to play with me, and the simple reality is, a large portion of the playerbase wants some protection. Living in Nullsec made me the minority, about 90% live in highsec, without it, the game would have been dead many years ago. Similar Albion. These games work, and the games that do not get this, always die.
 

Kurbb

Member
Sep 13, 2021
98
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If you think that, maybe you should read what Star Vault says what the game is supposed to be then. Its right on the front page https://www.mortalonline2.com/
Yes you can murder skin and eat people. But thats not all the game is about. This is a general problem with sandbox mmos like MO. They have full loot pvp as a feature, which sets them apart from the usual wow clones, this attracts people that like that aspect obviously, and a (usually very vocal) subgroup of this people thinks that is all this is about, and tries to reduce the game to THIS IS A HARDCORE PVP GAME!!!!, ignoring that the other aspects have to work too, otherwise its just a gankbox, which then usually kills the game if the devs listen to that group.



You obviously know even less about me, than you do about what MO2 is supposed to be.
I like pvp, I like the risk of being attacked, I like hunting other players. I have played UO as a red and as a blue, I have spent most of my time in eve in Nullsec, and in Albion in the black zone. I have tried most MMOs that promise a pvp centered approach precisely because I like that and its so rare otherwise.
But when playing a Sandbox MMO, I want more than just pvp, I also want a world that feels alive with lots of different players that do different things. Traders, a living economy. Basically exactly the vision that Star Vault has for MO2. If I just wanted a pure pvp game with nothing else I will play other games that have a higher skill ceiling and are better optimized for that. And this kind of Sandbox game only can exist when enough player with enough different playstyles are happy, so I have to consider not only what I want to play, but also what others want to play, to get them to play with me, and the simple reality is, a large portion of the playerbase wants some protection. Living in Nullsec made me the minority, about 90% live in highsec, without it, the game would have been dead many years ago. Similar Albion. These games work, and the games that do not get this, always die.
dont tell me how to play the game. Games like this die because players are much softer than they use to be. If there isnt an advantage they refuse to engage.
They die because of the devs not giving a shit. Youre all too soft and demand too many handholding mechanics.

What other aspects are there? Killing 1 of the 4 bosses? Crafting? Lol done all of that. The main focus is PvP. The sooner you guys realize that, the sooner you can leave.
 

Myta

Member
Feb 25, 2022
22
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Games like this die because players are much softer than they use to be(...) Youre all too soft and demand too many handholding mechanics.

What exactly do you think is your point here? You are basically saying "A game with a game design that only focuses on hardcore pvp is going to die because of how the players are".
Well yeah, thats my point too. The only difference is that you seem to think it is helpful to blame the players for that. Which is about as useful as blaming the sun for global warming. Its technically correct, but wont help to improve the situation, because no matter how much you cry about it, its not going to change. You cannot change the players. Either you adapt the game design so that it works with players, or the you dont and just watch the game die. Magically changing the players is just not an option.

What other aspects are there? Killing 1 of the 4 bosses? Crafting? Lol done all of that. The main focus is PvP. The sooner you guys realize that, the sooner you can leave.

Thats a good argument that the game needs more content besides pvp if its supposted to stay alive. I completely agree with that.
 
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Contorto

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Feb 18, 2022
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Games like this die because players are much softer than they use to be. If there isnt an advantage they refuse to engage.
They die because of the devs not giving a shit. Youre all too soft and demand too many handholding mechanics.

Lol OK edgelord keep telling yourself that.
 

ArcaneConsular

Well-known member
Oct 27, 2021
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Yeah could use more pvp hotspots. Right now pvp is just kind of random. Should do what most pvp games do and add hotspots that can be fought over. Like random meteors that spawn with rare ore, portals the spawn special enemies for butchering, etc. I really liked hell gates in AO. Something to give pvp players something to fight over. Makes pvpers happy and makes PvE players happy because they're no longer getting attacked by bored pvpers outside of towns