Nerf Bone Tissue

[Jatix]

Bone tissue is currently way too good for what it is. Bone weapon are ass, like they should be. The issue is bone armor and bows, and how easy bone is to get vs everything else. Emalj needs the butchery table, and you get a small amount per carcass. Bone you can just blast out an infinite amount in a couple pigs, no bench, on a character who isn't even a butcher. It should be much worse than its competition materials, but its actually quite comparable most of the time.

Some info:
My Emalj Spear is 33% higher pierce than bone, like it should be. This is the good balance point.
Emalj armor is only 6% better than bone.
A bone recurve self longbow bow is 115 str and slams because bows are way too good.

The armor and bow gap is too small. Theres no reason to go out of my way to make Emalj armor when its so minimally better than bone. And the same goes for materials that are better than Emalj but even harder to get. Bone isnt the best. Its just that it takes literal 0 effort to get, and isn't bad enough. It should suck enough that I want to go get a better armor mat.

 

[Teknique]

It’s true

 

[Gronil]

Bone warhammer actually seems rather good I won't lie, but I didn't compare it to emalj or better so I'd need someone else to confirm this.

Here's some armor tests I did. There should be a way bigger gap between Bone and Messing, I'd say Bone should be like 36-38ish for protection.

T Knight Bone fullgrain	41.31	40.71	42.72	1.29
T Knight Emalj Fullgrain	41.36	43.44	45.31	1.54
T Knight Iron Bone Fullgrain	42.67	44.13	46.6	1.6
T Knight Messing Fullgrain	44.95	49.91	53.5	2.99
T Knight Bron Fullgrain	43.02	47.63	52.35	3.14

 

[Tiddly]

Me thinks its stats are this way just for beta so people can be more involved in fights. Though I do agree that for what its worth that it should eventually be nerfed due how easy it is to source the materials.

 

[LivingshadeNL]

I dont know man, literally one of the problems of mo1 was how op high end metals where comparing to lower tiers , like new players should have some chance.

 

[Bernfred]

I dont know man, literally one of the problems of mo1 was how op high end metals where comparing to lower tiers , like new players should have some chance.

correct, its more skillbased that way and it gives people a chance to PvP with nearly no farming. if the gap is not huge enough then its better to upgrade the other materials because the weapon damage is huge.

 

[Truthshower]

I dont know man, literally one of the problems of mo1 was how op high end metals where comparing to lower tiers , like new players should have some chance.

lol what? so fuck trying hard to get an advantage, right now steel armor negates about 20 points of damage compared to bone. that's actually awful.

 

[Jatix]

I dont know man, literally one of the problems of mo1 was how op high end metals where comparing to lower tiers , like new players should have some chance.

That means mol and stuff should be better to close the gap, if its really too op, not bone. Bone being good doesnt help nubs it just makes getting better gear totally pointless. Damaging the economy and gameplay loop. If steel isnt better nobody is going to waste their time making it. For most of mo1's life a steel set was at least 10x+ the value of a mol set. The mol set, in my mind, was totally viable. And tung+ made that look cheap. To me this was totally fine. Risk v reward. I killed plenty of players in way better gear than me.

bone destroys risk v reward in its current state. There's no reason to increase risk because its barely better. If I die it means nothing my gear is worthless currently. My only loss is time in traveling, and the victor gains nothing because my gear is worth nothing. Thats not good. I should want to risk better gear for the worthy benefit, and then not want to lose it because it has value.

 

[Gronil]

That means mol and stuff should be better to close the gap, if its really too op, not bone. Bone being good doesnt help nubs it just makes getting better gear totally pointless. Damaging the economy and gameplay loop. If steel isnt better nobody is going to waste their time making it. For most of mo1's life a steel set was at least 10x+ the value of a mol set. The mol set, in my mind, was totally viable. And tung+ made that look cheap. To me this was totally fine. Risk v reward. I killed plenty of players in way better gear than me.

bone destroys risk v reward in its current state. There's no reason to increase risk because its barely better. If I die it means nothing my gear is worthless currently. My only loss is time in traveling, and the victor gains nothing because my gear is worth nothing. Thats not good. I should want to risk better gear for the worthy benefit, and then not want to lose it because it has value.

This, bone tissue is supposed to be a complete throw away material. Almost everything that isn’t a bug drops it when butchered. Killing a pig shouldn’t give you a full set of viable armor with a bow that can shoot 60+.

I’m fine with pretty much every other mat the way it is from what I’ve tested. Also I wouldn’t say it was that big of a deal in MO1, I’ve killed players in steel, tung, and pansar wearing horned scale or iron bone with a steel weapon in fair fights. The real thing that fucked fights is when the other guy is in ogh and he chugs his hp pot and rides off on his pre patch bull horse after u dismount him with a messing sledge.

 

[KermyWormy]

I think it's ok where it's at. Having cheap gear easily available for anyone gets people geared out even at the lowest level and out doing things ready for a fight.

Is it even different values than MO1? They haven't changed much. I mean it wasn't great, but it was definitely useable...but you didn't see everyone running around in it because getting something 8-10% better (estimation) with molarium/incisium/ironbone wasn't difficult...like at all, so people farmed and used those instead.

I think we're also seeing the results of them messing with leather mitigations to where they're worth using now, so with pigs you got 2 ok basic armor materials and buffing a mitigation on a piece that falls between 30-40 by 2-4 is nearly a 10% improvement over what we had in MO.

Once we have all the tools we need in game, farming molarium/incisium/ironbone will be inconsequential as well, so people will choose the better material in these lower tiers because in the end they're all low hanging fruit.

And finally, people will still use steel or other metals like they did eventually in MO because bone armor mitigates low 40s but steel gets you into low 60s right? That's 50% better mitigation in a competitive full loot game, people want every advantage they can get.

People will get there faster than we did in the old game and faster than we probably think because those that don't butcher do mining/extraction pretty much so you have a lot of people with the capability of contributing to the supply side of the economy.

TLDR: I think bone tissue is fine as is and things will shake out like the old game where people use low tier until they can afford what's better, and that floor will continue to rise as time goes on and people accumulate more wealth and materials.

 

[LivingshadeNL]

lol what? so fuck trying hard to get an advantage, right now steel armor negates about 20 points of damage compared to bone. that's actually awful.

I dont like huge gaps between materials, after all we are in a SKILL game , not a GEAR game.

 

[LivingshadeNL]

This, bone tissue is supposed to be a complete throw away material. Almost everything that isn’t a bug drops it when butchered. Killing a pig shouldn’t give you a full set of viable armor with a bow that can shoot 60+.

I’m fine with pretty much every other mat the way it is from what I’ve tested. Also I wouldn’t say it was that big of a deal in MO1, I’ve killed players in steel, tung, and pansar wearing horned scale or iron bone with a steel weapon in fair fights. The real thing that fucked fights is when the other guy is in ogh and he chugs his hp pot and rides off on his pre patch bull horse after u dismount him with a messing sledge.

Wait until mounted combat is out and u get 1 or 2 shot in ur OP bone

 

[Konrad]

right, and im basicaly killing those guys in 'OP' bone tissue in 4/5 swings with average sword, its certainly OP in a away that its good for a lot of things at the start of your career for any crafter or beginner as its always something and its basicaly free and so easy to get yeah in that way it is indeed 'op' as it can be mass producted without any issue but yeah I don't see full guilds rolling in that stuff xD

 

[LivingshadeNL]

right, and im basicaly killing those guys in 'OP' bone tissue in 4/5 swings with average sword, its certainly OP in a away that its good for a lot of things at the start of your career for any crafter or beginner as its always something and its basicaly free and so easy to get yeah in that way it is indeed 'op' as it can be mass producted without any issue but yeah I don't see full guilds rolling in that stuff xD

Excactly

 

[Gronil]

Wait until mounted combat is out and u get 1 or 2 shot in ur OP bone

Wait until they add mounted combat and u get 2 or 3 shot in tung lol

 

[MolagAmur]

I don't see a huge issue with bone tissue not being useless. Its def not that good..but its decent. I'm fine with new players having easy access to something to make them armor that isn't made out of paper.

 

[Turbizzler]

MO1 had a huge problem of majority of materials being useless, and worth nothing more than a little vendor coin. It's good that SV is closing the gap between material effectiveness, this is one change I support. More readily available options, means more people will be out PvPing, means more trade, means not only a handful of viable materials.

People paying for B, A and S tier materials still have an advantage over bone tissue. It just means people get to gear crutch less. Which is good. In saying this, tweaking might be needed, but if the tweaks are so huge that it just makes 2/3 of the materials in the game useless again, might as well remove them and the "complex" crafting system seems much less complex with only a handful of materials being useful.

Bow balance is needed though, especially the material balance. Bows are actually something that needs a proper rebalance.

 

[Gronil]

MO1 had a huge problem of majority of materials being useless, and worth nothing more than a little vendor coin. It's good that SV is closing the gap between material effectiveness, this is one change I support. More readily available options, means more people will be out PvPing, means more trade, means not only a handful of viable materials.

People paying for B, A and S tier materials still have an advantage over bone tissue. It just means people get to gear crutch less. Which is good. In saying this, tweaking might be needed, but if the tweaks are so huge that it just makes 2/3 of the materials in the game useless again, might as well remove them and the "complex" crafting system seems much less complex with only a handful of materials being useful.

Bow balance is needed though, especially the material balance. Bows are actually something that needs a proper rebalance.

Nerfing bone tissue a small amount will still make it viable for a low end material, it always has been. 95% of armor mats are still useless, bleck is still worse wicked heavy bone, bron is still worse heavy messing, crepite is still awful heavy bone, etc. No one is going to trade bone it's completely worthless because it's so insanely easy to get.

 

[Jatix]

MO1 had a huge problem of majority of materials being useless, and worth nothing more than a little vendor coin. It's good that SV is closing the gap between material effectiveness, this is one change I support. More readily available options, means more people will be out PvPing, means more trade, means not only a handful of viable materials.

Bone devalues all the other materials because its to easy to get and minimally worse. MO1 you could go outside tind or bakti and blast IB. You cant in this. You find 1 razorback in the woods. They can nerf bone and it can still be a viable 0 cost 0 risk option for nubs. But for people who can risk more, theres currently little reason to with the current effort difference to get better gear. Theres going to be no fun in using better gear when you can get zerged by a bunch of guys in 0 risk with bone armor and crepite bows.

 

[Turbizzler]

Bone devalues all the other materials because its to easy to get and minimally worse. MO1 you could go outside tind or bakti and blast IB. You cant in this. You find 1 razorback in the woods. They can nerf bone and it can still be a viable 0 cost 0 risk option for nubs. But for people who can risk more, theres currently little reason to with the current effort difference to get better gear. Theres going to be no fun in using better gear when you can get zerged by a bunch of guys in 0 risk with bone armor and crepite bows.

Have to remember it's super easy to get right now, because carcass rates are intentionally made super high. Pigs dropping 10k - 20k isn't going to happen on release. I doubt butchery is going to be as potent as it is right now either. Game is in testing phases, of course shit is going to be plenty and easy to get.