Neftan's "General AI, NPC, and PvE Combat" Suggestions

Neftan

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May 28, 2020
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Hello. Here I will be compiling all suggestions I have for AI and NPC's.

I hope the devs take notice of any changes they deem appropriate and possible for MO2. Feedback is welcomed but if you dont like something, there is no need to have a fit. Something to remind yourself of is that anything suggested below of course would need to be carefully balanced in order to not be exploitable.
As a note, many things below could fall into many categories. They are sorted less for accuracy and more for general viewing.

Artificial Intelligence:
General Combat:
  • Battles should not be like in MO1, where you would stand and fight something on the spot
    • Enemies should move around more, depending on what they are
      • Razorback could charge you, trot a bit and turn and try again
      • Fish and underwater creatures could circle you and dash in for a bite
      • Etc.
      • -
    • There should be more choreographed, dodge-able attacks
      • When being charged, you could simply have to get away from the charge, side step, etc
      • Etc
      • -
  • There should be a multitude of different model variations for different NPC
    • These could be purely cosmetic, or change the way the NPC fights entirely
    • Humanoids should have different clothing, weapons, races
    • Creatures could have scars or different skin textures
    • -
  • Fighting the same kind of NPC should not get too repetitive
    • Enemies should make use of direction atttcks
      • Each enemy should have a brief dice roll at the start of combat to decide
        • If it will favor a particular attack direction
        • If it will favor attacking quickly, or trying to block
        • Etc
        • This would make AI more fluid and you could not close your eyes or watch Netflix and still kill things, as you could in MO1
        • -
General Reactions:
  • AI should be more reactive than it was in MO1
    • Less things should be constant, more variables should be introduced
  • AI should react to individuals based on their Zoology skill levels.
    • Players trained in specific lores will have decreased aggro radius with hostile mobs, perhaps eliminating aggro for specific types.
    • Players trained in specific lores will gain positive interactions with friendly mobs, such as trimming horns to gain horn, or sheering to gain wool.
    • -
  • AI should react to if they are attacked by magic, ranged weapons or from melee range.
    • If the AI is weak to or afraid of a specific type, they will flee, or go berserk, fighting with increased speed.
    • -
  • AI should react to each other, and should roam
    • The world should be a combination of semi static, and roaming NPC’s.
    • Semi Static could have a herd of Springbok making a slow, wide circle around the Steppes, perhaps only moving every hour or so.
    • Roaming could be given to smaller groups or solo entities, such as a Lone Wolf for lack of a better example.
      • The Lone wolf would spawn randomly within an existing spawn of wolves, and begin moving instantly in a random direction. It would be able to detect (smell) herbivores and being tracking them, so it could engage in battle with them and eat one or die trying.
    • This could be used as a base template idea for many creative things.
    • -
  • AI should react to player numbers
    • Imagine a PvP fight wandering near a pack of wolves or springbok. While normally Wolves would attack, the presence of too many people would have them flee, as well as the springbok.
    • They would flee a certain distance, but if pursued, become hostile, to prevent too much herding of wild spawns.
    • They would return to their original locations afterwards.
    • -
  • AI should collectively respond to how the player acts, and the player should have more options
    • They player should be able to toss food to an animal, calming it down or showing that they are friendly
      • Mobs witnessing this may react, so if one pig is fed, more may gather, etc.
      • -
    • If a player was running around or swinging a weapon or attacking, they would flee
      • To avoid issues, a creatures attacked will fight back, but the surrounding will run
      • Any creature fleeing will only do so by moving a few feet, not endlessly
    • -
General Behaviour:
  • AI should be more varied than it was in MO1.

  • There were no positive creatures in MO1, only neutral and hostile.
    • I suggest adding some wandering friendlies into the wild, such as
      • Woodland Imp/Pixie/Fairy who will throw weak healing spells on injured nearby humanoids
      • Wandering hunters who roam a path, with a goal of getting meat and returning to their NPC town. They will offer directions to nearby animals, or aid in fighting off hostile NPC who are in combat with you.
      • Etc.
      • -
  • AI bandits, depending on location, should try to speak with you before attacking, demanding money or that you move on in order to have peace. They should have the ability to snoop you in these interactions and if you have too much money or a valuable item, they will exclaim and attack right away.
    • -
  • All AI should have a stamina-like value, so that they cannot chase and fight endlessly.
    • MO1 had enemies slow down as their HP dropped, that was something, but no enough.
    • Enemies should tire from running and swinging, or blocking in the case of blocking.
    • Enemies should also have mana and mana regeneration if they are mages.
    • When stamina is getting low, they should slow down and their attacks should become less frequent as they allow their stamina to return
    • -

Taming:
  • Taming would be directly influenced by some of the aforementioned suggestions, buffing them by allowing them to:
    • Interact with the wilderness in more creative ways
    • Play support roles instead combat roles
    • -
  • Players should be rewarded for training a pet
    • Introduce Bond mechanic
    • After so many hours have passed of play with a specific pet, it will become bonded
    • Bonded pets will count as Players for the criminal system, so if they are slain in town (looking at you donkey killers) they will give the equivalent of a murder count.
    • They would of course mirror the players flag so grey and red pets would be treated as criminals and murderers.
    • -
  • Taming commands should be able to be more complex, depending on the pets intelligence.
    • A pet should be able to told to stay back, unless the owner gets below half life, or becomes out numbered.
    • A pet should be able to be trained to seek out specific items and lead the character to them
    • A pet should be able to flee when it becomes too damaged
Stats:
  • All AI should have stats the same as the players, akin to MO1’s mounts. This would make it so tamers would be able to see these stats, and find pets with strengths and weaknesses that were desired.

  • This would also allow any pet with above a certain size and strength threshold to carry bags.
    • A tamer with a bear should not lose the ability to store his things, why cant the bear have bags? The disadvantage the tamer has is that they are on foot, and are not a strong PvP build due to points spent on taming.
    • Bags should count as weight and linearly slow down whatever creature is carrying them as they fill up.
 
Last edited:

ThaBadMan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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Hello. Here I will be compiling all suggestions I have for everything I have an opinion on. I will revisit this thread and add, change, or remove things as I see fit. So far it is just some suggestions on AI and taming.

I hope the devs take notice of any changes they deem appropriate and possible for MO2. Feedback is welcomed but if you dont like something, there is no need to have a fit. Something to remind yourself of is that anything suggested below of course would need to be carefully balanced in order to not be exploitable.

Artificial Intelligence:
Reactions:
  • AI should be more reactive than it was in MO1.

  • AI should react to individuals based on their Zoology skill levels.
    • Players trained in specific lores will have decreased aggro radius with hostile mobs, perhaps eliminating aggro for specific types.
    • Players trained in specific lores will gain positive interactions with friendly mobs, such as trimming horns to gain horn, or sheering to gain wool.
  • AI should react to if they are attacked by magic, ranged weapons or from melee range.
    • If the AI is weak to or afraid of a specific type, they will flee, or go beserk, fighting with increased speed.
  • AI should react to each other.
    • The world should be a combination of semi static, and roaming NPC’s.
    • Semi Static could have a herd of Springbok making a slow, wide circle around the Steppes, perhaps only moving every hour or so.
    • Roaming could be given to smaller groups or solo entities, such as a Lone Wolf for lack of a better example.
      • The Lone wolf would spawn randomly within an existing spawn of wolves, and begin moving instantly in a random direction. It would be able to detect (smell) herbivores and being tracking them, so it could engage in battle with them and eat one or die trying.
    • This could be used as a base template idea for many creative things.
  • AI should react to player numbers
    • Imagine a PvP fight wandering near a pack of wolves or springbok. While normally Wolves would attack, the presence of too many people would have them flee, as well as the springbok.
    • They would flee a certain distance, but if pursued, become hostile, to prevent too much herding of wild spawns.
    • They would return to their original locations afterwards.
Behaviour:
  • AI should be more varied than it was in MO1.

  • There were no positive creatures in MO1, only neutral and hostile.
    • I suggest adding some wandering friendlies into the wild, such as
      • Woodland Imp/Pixie/Fairy who will throw weak healing spells on injured nearby humanoids
      • Wandering hunters who roam a path, with a goal of getting meat and returning to their NPC town. They will offer directions to nearby animals, or aid in fighting off hostile NPC who are in combat with you.
      • Etc.
  • AI bandits, depending on location, should try to speak with you before attacking, demanding money or that you move on in order to have peace. They should have the ability to snoop you in these interactions and if you have too much money or a valuable item, they will exclaim and attack right away.

Taming:
  • Taming would be directly influenced by some of the aforementioned suggestions, buffing them by allowing them to:
    • Interact with the wilderness in more creative ways
    • Play support roles instead combat roles
  • Players should be rewarded for training a pet
    • Introduce Bond mechanic
    • After so many hours have passed of play with a specific pet, it will become bonded
    • Bonded pets will count as Players for the criminal system, so if they are slain in town (looking at you donkey killers) they will give the equivalent of a murder count.
    • They would of course mirror the players flag so grey and red pets would be treated as criminals and murderers.
  • Taming commands should be able to be more complex, depending on the pets intelligence.
    • A pet should be able to told to stay back, unless the owner gets below half life, or becomes out numbered.
    • A pet should be able to be trained to seek out specific items and lead the character to them
    • A pet should be able to flee when it becomes too damaged
Stats:
  • All AI should have stats the same as the players, akin to MO1’s mounts. This would make it so tamers would be able to see these stats, and find pets with strengths and weaknesses that were desired.

  • This would also allow any pet with above a certain size and strength threshold to carry bags.
    • A tamer with a bear should not lose the ability to store his things, why cant the bear have bags? The disadvantage the tamer has is that they are on foot, and are not a strong PvP build due to points spent on taming.
    • Bags should count as weight and linearly slow down whateve
Do like the suggestions so far. Would make the game feel more alive for sure and also importantly make you more immersed.

As for non aggressive AI types such as springbok should imo be like real ones where you need to actually hunt them BUT in order for that to be good means they should also yield more materials per kill as to not become a second job like MO1 did after butchery and with the newer things before Sarducaa became farmers paradise.
 

Neftan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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My Mind
Do like the suggestions so far. Would make the game feel more alive for sure and also importantly make you more immersed.

As for non aggressive AI types such as springbok should imo be like real ones where you need to actually hunt them BUT in order for that to be good means they should also yield more materials per kill as to not become a second job like MO1 did after butchery and with the newer things before Sarducaa became farmers paradise.
I feel like hunting could be weakly emulated by having any nearby creatures flee after you attack one, and have the one you attack have a 50/50% chance to fight or flee - in the case of Springbok.

Each animal would need it's own AI settings, hunting could be better emulated with things like Alces, or perhaps the addition of a woodland deer, who spawn solo and flee on sight.

The changes I proposed to taming would try to combat these fleeing properties by offering alternative ways to gather materials (outside of meat).
 

ThaBadMan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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I feel like hunting could be weakly emulated by having any nearby creatures flee after you attack one, and have the one you attack have a 50/50% chance to fight or flee - in the case of Springbok.

Each animal would need it's own AI settings, hunting could be better emulated with things like Alces, or perhaps the addition of a woodland deer, who spawn solo and flee on sight.

The changes I proposed to taming would try to combat these fleeing properties by offering alternative ways to gather materials (outside of meat).
True, and imo we need more ways of peacefully gathering materials like that, if only for another way to create more "sheep" to play other than simply a bunch of "wolves" like MO. This also builds up to breeding and making a farm without having to slaughter all of your animals to gain anything.
 

Neftan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
249
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My Mind
True, and imo we need more ways of peacefully gathering materials like that, if only for another way to create more "sheep" to play other than simply a bunch of "wolves" like MO. This also builds up to breeding and making a farm without having to slaughter all of your animals to gain anything.
The game definitely needs to branch out and allow for more freedom when it comes to alternative ways of play, I for one love to farm and do peaceful things, but also enjoy the threat of combat. I am not playing MO in order to be a warrior and slaughter, I play MO to exist in a world where there is danger.

It becomes hard to do that when there are little to no options for it.

I would play this game for life if I could have a house with a couple sheep and a garden, with the need to rally the aid of warriors to help me defend it against siege occasionally. Even if it were destroyed, I enjoy a fresh start now and again. It just needs to be possible to ENJOY those tasks of farming and peace, rather than them being stagnant like you saw in MO1 with breeding pens and farms. They were not interactive, not visually pleasing, and not very beneficial.
 

ThaBadMan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
1,161
916
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Norway
The game definitely needs to branch out and allow for more freedom when it comes to alternative ways of play, I for one love to farm and do peaceful things, but also enjoy the threat of combat. I am not playing MO in order to be a warrior and slaughter, I play MO to exist in a world where there is danger.

It becomes hard to do that when there are little to no options for it.

I would play this game for life if I could have a house with a couple sheep and a garden, with the need to rally the aid of warriors to help me defend it against siege occasionally. Even if it were destroyed, I enjoy a fresh start now and again. It just needs to be possible to ENJOY those tasks of farming and peace, rather than them being stagnant like you saw in MO1 with breeding pens and farms. They were not interactive, not visually pleasing, and not very beneficial.
Very true, and we imo needs TONS of this type of players of all variations for MO(MO2) to become what it should become. Without it bloodthirsty madmen like me cant pillage around the way we where meant. That is unless somehow MO2 changes me back to my once A-PK roots pre MO. For that to happen though we need the same and a ton of criminals aswell as tons of lawful warfare options.

Even still I do enjoy my fair share of trading, crafting and many many other fields to do in my "downtimes" :ROFLMAO: MO in my eyes was always the one game for all types of gamers.
 

finegamingconnoisseur

Well-known member
May 29, 2020
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Hello. Here I will be compiling all suggestions I have for AI and NPC's.

I hope the devs take notice of any changes they deem appropriate and possible for MO2. Feedback is welcomed but if you dont like something, there is no need to have a fit. Something to remind yourself of is that anything suggested below of course would need to be carefully balanced in order to not be exploitable.

Artificial Intelligence:
Reactions:
  • AI should be more reactive than it was in MO1.

  • AI should react to individuals based on their Zoology skill levels.
    • Players trained in specific lores will have decreased aggro radius with hostile mobs, perhaps eliminating aggro for specific types.
    • Players trained in specific lores will gain positive interactions with friendly mobs, such as trimming horns to gain horn, or sheering to gain wool.
    • -
  • AI should react to if they are attacked by magic, ranged weapons or from melee range.
    • If the AI is weak to or afraid of a specific type, they will flee, or go beserk, fighting with increased speed.
    • -
  • AI should react to each other.
    • The world should be a combination of semi static, and roaming NPC’s.
    • Semi Static could have a herd of Springbok making a slow, wide circle around the Steppes, perhaps only moving every hour or so.
    • Roaming could be given to smaller groups or solo entities, such as a Lone Wolf for lack of a better example.
      • The Lone wolf would spawn randomly within an existing spawn of wolves, and begin moving instantly in a random direction. It would be able to detect (smell) herbivores and being tracking them, so it could engage in battle with them and eat one or die trying.
    • This could be used as a base template idea for many creative things.
    • -
  • AI should react to player numbers
    • Imagine a PvP fight wandering near a pack of wolves or springbok. While normally Wolves would attack, the presence of too many people would have them flee, as well as the springbok.
    • They would flee a certain distance, but if pursued, become hostile, to prevent too much herding of wild spawns.
    • They would return to their original locations afterwards.
Behaviour:
  • AI should be more varied than it was in MO1.

  • There were no positive creatures in MO1, only neutral and hostile.
    • I suggest adding some wandering friendlies into the wild, such as
      • Woodland Imp/Pixie/Fairy who will throw weak healing spells on injured nearby humanoids
      • Wandering hunters who roam a path, with a goal of getting meat and returning to their NPC town. They will offer directions to nearby animals, or aid in fighting off hostile NPC who are in combat with you.
      • Etc.
      • -
  • AI bandits, depending on location, should try to speak with you before attacking, demanding money or that you move on in order to have peace. They should have the ability to snoop you in these interactions and if you have too much money or a valuable item, they will exclaim and attack right away.
    • -
  • All AI should have a stamina-like value, so that they cannot chase and fight endlessly.
    • MO1 had enemies slow down as their HP dropped, that was something, but no enough.
    • Enemies should tire from running and swinging, or blocking in the case of blocking.
    • Enemies should also have mana and mana regeneration if they are mages.
    • When stamina is getting low, they should slow down and their attacks should become less frequent as they allow their stamina to return
    • -

Taming:
  • Taming would be directly influenced by some of the aforementioned suggestions, buffing them by allowing them to:
    • Interact with the wilderness in more creative ways
    • Play support roles instead combat roles
    • -
  • Players should be rewarded for training a pet
    • Introduce Bond mechanic
    • After so many hours have passed of play with a specific pet, it will become bonded
    • Bonded pets will count as Players for the criminal system, so if they are slain in town (looking at you donkey killers) they will give the equivalent of a murder count.
    • They would of course mirror the players flag so grey and red pets would be treated as criminals and murderers.
    • -
  • Taming commands should be able to be more complex, depending on the pets intelligence.
    • A pet should be able to told to stay back, unless the owner gets below half life, or becomes out numbered.
    • A pet should be able to be trained to seek out specific items and lead the character to them
    • A pet should be able to flee when it becomes too damaged
Stats:
  • All AI should have stats the same as the players, akin to MO1’s mounts. This would make it so tamers would be able to see these stats, and find pets with strengths and weaknesses that were desired.

  • This would also allow any pet with above a certain size and strength threshold to carry bags.
    • A tamer with a bear should not lose the ability to store his things, why cant the bear have bags? The disadvantage the tamer has is that they are on foot, and are not a strong PvP build due to points spent on taming.
    • Bags should count as weight and linearly slow down whatever creature is carrying them as they fill up.
Yes, more of this. One of the things that I found was sore lacking in every MMORPG I've played to date (including MO1) was this kind of dynamic, reactive world that was truly alive and had a mind of its own and deep, intricate mechanics with consequence that applied to the AI as well. I'm fully with you on this one.
 
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Neftan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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Yes, more of this. One of the things that I found was sore lacking in every MMORPG I've played to date (including MO1) was this kind of dynamic, reactive world that was truly alive and had a mind of its own and deep, intricate mechanics with consequence that applied to the AI as well. I'm fully with you on this one.
A old anime style game had some of these features and I played it as a young teen. Mabinogi. Enemies would react to each other and roam around to an extent. Towns had foxes that would chase and kill chickens, and dogs and roosters that would fight off the foxes. Bears would wander into an herbivore area. Mobs also grew and got stronger the longer they existed, gaining titles based on the time alive and their area.

You could also gather wool, milk, pick eggs, etc. It was a cringey game, honestly, but it had the PvE content like that down pat. I miss it for that.

I hope MO2 can attempt to capture some of the same life.
 

finegamingconnoisseur

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May 29, 2020
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A old anime style game had some of these features and I played it as a young teen. Mabinogi. Enemies would react to each other and roam around to an extent. Towns had foxes that would chase and kill chickens, and dogs and roosters that would fight off the foxes. Bears would wander into an herbivore area. Mobs also grew and got stronger the longer they existed, gaining titles based on the time alive and their area.

You could also gather wool, milk, pick eggs, etc. It was a cringey game, honestly, but it had the PvE content like that down pat. I miss it for that.

I hope MO2 can attempt to capture some of the same life.
Reminds me a lot of Ultima 7: The Black Gate which allows a lot of what you mentioned, a very sandbox game where you feel more like you're living a life and combat is just one of many pursuits. Interesting how very old games with primitive tech and hardware limitations could do what games today seem to have trouble doing.

Something funny I remembered about Ultima 7 was that sometimes town guards would bump into each other, one would tell the other to move out of the way and the other would do the same. It ends up being two guards endlessly yelling at each other to get out of the way and making rude remarks at each other for not moving. Truly hilarious to see.
 
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Amadman

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A padded room.
Reminds me a lot of Ultima 7: The Black Gate which allows a lot of what you mentioned, a very sandbox game where you feel more like you're living a life and combat is just one of many pursuits. Interesting how very old games with primitive tech and hardware limitations could do what games today seem to have trouble doing.

Something funny I remembered about Ultima 7 was that sometimes town guards would bump into each other, one would tell the other to move out of the way and the other would do the same. It ends up being two guards endlessly yelling at each other to get out of the way and making rude remarks at each other for not moving. Truly hilarious to see.

So true with older ultima and similar games. Sure we have better graphics and 3d environments now but aside from that they did so much more with so much less in the early days.
 

Slammington Unchained

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    • After so many hours have passed of play with a specific pet, it will become bonded
    • Bonded pets will count as Players for the criminal system, so if they are slain in town (looking at you donkey killers) they will give the equivalent of a murder count.
      • A pet should be able to told to stay back, unless the owner gets below half life, or becomes out numbered.
So is this some sort of "Donkey Lives Matter/DLM" push? Also, a disobedient pet is a defective pet. If a pet is told to stay back, it should stay the fuck back.
 

Neftan

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So is this some sort of "Donkey Lives Matter/DLM" push? Also, a disobedient pet is a defective pet. If a pet is told to stay back, it should stay the fuck back.
You misunderstand. I dont mean they cant be told to stay back, i mean they can be given parameters which you dont want them to stay back any more.
 
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i love the idea of gaining from passivly "harvesting" your live stock. so if you tame/breed springbuck you could get horns, female Gaur would give milk and male give compact horn, eggs with chicken and wool/iron wool with wisent and sheep. etc.

the values from passive harvest needs to be way less than from butchering them imo. getting 500 horn from a live wisent with the possibility to harvest more in a safe environement (as safe as ur farm can be)

or get 1000-1200 horns, leather, meats, wool, bones NOW by killing it and butchering it. except since its dead you have to wait for respawn and next time the spot might be contested by other players etc.

seems like good dynamics. im just worried ppl will have 200+ urial farms and sell Great horns like crazy making mad money.
 
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Slammington Unchained

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i love the idea of gaining from passivly "harvesting" your live stock. so if you tame/breed springbuck you could get horns, female Gaur would give milk and male give compact horn, eggs with chicken and wool/iron wool with wisent and sheep. etc.

the values from passive harvest needs to be way less than from butchering them imo. getting 500 horn from a live wisent with the possibility to harvest more in a safe environement (as safe as ur farm can be)

or get 1000-1200 horns, leather, meats, wool, bones NOW by killing it and butchering it. except since its dead you have to wait for respawn and next time the spot might be contested by other players etc.

seems like good dynamics. im just worried ppl will have 200+ urial farms and sell Great horns like crazy making mad money.
I think this game is better for you