Hi all, I play almost exclusively thursar, I'm a vet of MO1, and I have played since combat alpha in MO2. Here are some of my thoughts boiled down.
1. Races and Clades
Obviously, having varied playstyles for each clade is good design. The implementation is pretty damn good, all things considered. Oghmir have place in combat as both fighters and mages. The low dex cap feels appropriate. However, I think it's bad for the game to have clade gifts that give a bonus to extraction and refining. I've spent my MO career extracting and refining steel and making weapons. I do not typically play oghmir. If I play a weapon crafter and try to make money doing it, my breakeven for selling weapons is worse than an oghmir. That doesn't feel right.
Alvarin getting access to higher tier materials from skinning is also kinda busted design. Alvarin have a place in combat too, but Alvarin have been hurt by the changes to the int and psy curves. Alvarin in MO1 were the most versatile characters. Because the int curve has become linear, the alvarin dex mage that typically had 55-65 int in MO1 is far weaker. Maybe that's appropriate, up for discussion. Alvarin fighters are still completely relevant and often crucial for securing kills.
Thursar are by far the most pigeonholed race. They have no bonuses whatsoever in professions. No int or psy, so they have far fewer bonus points and can fit fewer primaries, nor any clade bonuses. (not that I want Profession clade bonuses on thursar) They can make a great damage dealing foot fighter. I don't think there is a reason to use them for mounted at the moment with couched spears being the primary weapon for MC.
For being the weakest clade, humans are doing okay, but they could be doing better. The only thing the human clade really offers are stat points, and fair enough. You can dip your fingers into more different things than any other clade. That's all they've got going for them. The magic resistance as their race's signature combat stat is a joke. I'd really like to see them with something a little more impactful.
2. Skills and Stats
Aggressive and defensive stance are REALLY NICE to have on combat characters. Design wise, they're boring. Sprinting and anatomy fall into a similar category. It seems like these skills exist to be requisites to invest skill points in. It feels okay to play, so I won't criticize the implementation, but the design lacks imagination. As more magic schools come out, fighters may feel rewarded for keeping these skills for the edge in combat they will get, but the "cool" and interesting factor will continue going in the direction of magic users. I think taming should be a profession skill, as it will be many players' source of income, especially when breeding returns. Creature control, herding, and beast mastery are in the correct category, taming doesn't fit in the same way.
The changes to dex, int, and psy curves changed an awful lot. Lower int mages and hybrids have been gutted. The dex changes did what they were supposed to, and I think are an overall positive change. The int change nerfed foot mages, particularly dex mages really hard.The intelligence curve has made slower characters primary footmages, and I think that's a zerg friendly change. Sheevra can still be quick enough to evade most fighters, but the base MS of veela helped the adaptability, maneuverability, and unpredictability of battle on foot. Sheevra are more speed clade dependent. I think down the road, changes to the stat pool may be necessary and I hope SV has the foresight to issue reroll tokens to players who have already made their characters in the event that such changes come out.
3. Foot and Mounted
The first thing to be addressed is DISMOUNT. That NEEDS TO BE IN THE GAME. It is a core balance feature. The fact that it is not in the game prevents the players and devs from getting a good read on how mounted and foot combat will work in concert or against one another. The fact that it is still not even animated is really worrying. I'm also surprised that breeding isn’t implemented. I always thought breeding was a really cool feature of the game. Breeding is how you could get horses that regen stamina in second gear by tuning the weight and height of the horse in MO1. In MO2, horses are being broad brushed balanced by breed. This game relies on the depth of its systems. Bred mounts will be important for making mounted as a class stronger and more of an investment. Mount armor sucks, but in compensation it's inexpensive. Steel armor for a horse should provide pretty damn decent defenses but it should be costly as hell to make. That is what we were told, but it is not the case. Steel armor is really noticeable on a mount when it's double stacked. Just a normal steel horse armor? Underwhelming.
Foot really doesn't do anything against mounted. Foot has no recourse when being engaged by mounted. Bow the horse? Mages can heal while mounted so good luck. Dismount them if they come too close? EQ? Not in the game. If a fatmage wants to flamestrike a footie, they have to get pretty close. That should be the foot fighter's opportunity to play the game. You really don't.
4. Crafting and Materials
The MO1 weapon crafting system was a more complex, interesting, and fun system. I'll describe 2h weapons in MO1 to illustrate to those that didn't play it an idea of what I mean. 2H weapons had 3 shaft options: Short, long, and longer. The heads you could put on these weapons were every possible weapon head in the game. There were some busted examples (sledge on a lance) but these were fixed over time. A poleaxe had the same handle as a warhammer which had the same handle as an axe and so on. A mercy dagger could go on the end of a pole for a weakspot spear. The infamous polesword of MO1 was in fact a 2h shaft with a greatsword blade on the end. In this game, every weapon group has an assortment of handles with slightly different, but not self explanatory stats and hitboxes. In this manner, different weapon types have different stat groups. Compare swinging a 3.5 kg axe or hammer with a 3.5 kg sword and you'll see a noticeable difference in charge and swing speed. There are minute differences between blueprints of the same type and length. The new crafting has more names of weapon shafts, but the real underlying complexity has in fact been reduced.
I should also note that the stats of many materials, especially those brought from MO1 are janky. In a world with some sort of realism, why the hell is wood such a crap material for the shafts of weapons? It's not as though wood was the primary material for weapon shafts the world over for millennia, right? Oops....
Maybe unpopular, but I also want 10 piece armor sets back in the game. First, the level of customization it allowed for was really fun and rewarding, even as a player that scroached for years. Mixing armor types and materials to get armor sets under certain weight cutoffs was a really fun part of the game that was one of those real trade secrets. Lots of folks talk about the cool complexities in the game. 14 kg for years was the cutoff for stamina regen. Given the weight limit, armor crafters (or fighters that were buying the gear) had to find the right distribution of armor types to most effectively cover the body, all of course while looking cool. My 14 weight set was Draco (best piercing defense) Torso and boots, Direptor (best slashing defense) sleeves, shoulders, and pants, and Excubitor (mixed defense with better blunt) gloves and helmet. Excubitor gloves were abnormally light weight which pulled the set just under 14 at 13.92 weight. I love that kind of complexity and I feel like the 5 piece armor set limits how far that can go. 10 Piece armor sets also allowed fighters to wear tungsteel armor. Currently, only an oghmir with all armor clades can wear full tung. With 10 piece sets, by wearing scale pieces (gloves, shoulders, sometimes sleeves and boots) thursar fighters and even veela fighters with full armor training could wear appropriate heavy pieces.
5. Weapons and Combat
Okay, I know anyone who read my name before this post is waiting for me to say it: BUFF POLESWORDS!
They require 200 primary points. As such the appropriate weapon to compare them to is poleaxes. Poleswords are inferior. The stam drain is the worst of any class of weapons in the game, especially when adjusted for weight. The damage is a joke in comparison to poleaxes in both blunt (where it should be weaker, maybe not by this much) and pierce departments. They do not have any bonuses as a weapon group compared to poleaxes in the speed or handling department when adjusted for weight, which is where they realistically should offer an advantage.
Moving on. Parrying is too strong. I understand we are pretty gated into the stance based slasher combat of MO, and given that, the defensive playstyle is too strong. Time to kill is very high without magic. For one thing, holding your block remains a "parry" for way too long. In MO1, you could only be holding your block for a couple seconds before it became a "blocked" instead of a "parry." Re-upping your block allowed offensive players to try to time it with your release and get damage through. I'm not saying it was reliable, but it was an option at least. A common method of getting around blocks was to run super close to the opponent and try to hit them in the back. This was mostly removed when ping normalization was attempted by SV. That was probably a good thing, but it removed an offensive option without compensating by adding a new one. The game needs a method for foot fighters to land some meaningful damage on a defensively competent player. I'm not sure exactly how to go about this, but its absence is very noticeable.
Thanks for reading folks!
1. Races and Clades
Obviously, having varied playstyles for each clade is good design. The implementation is pretty damn good, all things considered. Oghmir have place in combat as both fighters and mages. The low dex cap feels appropriate. However, I think it's bad for the game to have clade gifts that give a bonus to extraction and refining. I've spent my MO career extracting and refining steel and making weapons. I do not typically play oghmir. If I play a weapon crafter and try to make money doing it, my breakeven for selling weapons is worse than an oghmir. That doesn't feel right.
Alvarin getting access to higher tier materials from skinning is also kinda busted design. Alvarin have a place in combat too, but Alvarin have been hurt by the changes to the int and psy curves. Alvarin in MO1 were the most versatile characters. Because the int curve has become linear, the alvarin dex mage that typically had 55-65 int in MO1 is far weaker. Maybe that's appropriate, up for discussion. Alvarin fighters are still completely relevant and often crucial for securing kills.
Thursar are by far the most pigeonholed race. They have no bonuses whatsoever in professions. No int or psy, so they have far fewer bonus points and can fit fewer primaries, nor any clade bonuses. (not that I want Profession clade bonuses on thursar) They can make a great damage dealing foot fighter. I don't think there is a reason to use them for mounted at the moment with couched spears being the primary weapon for MC.
For being the weakest clade, humans are doing okay, but they could be doing better. The only thing the human clade really offers are stat points, and fair enough. You can dip your fingers into more different things than any other clade. That's all they've got going for them. The magic resistance as their race's signature combat stat is a joke. I'd really like to see them with something a little more impactful.
2. Skills and Stats
Aggressive and defensive stance are REALLY NICE to have on combat characters. Design wise, they're boring. Sprinting and anatomy fall into a similar category. It seems like these skills exist to be requisites to invest skill points in. It feels okay to play, so I won't criticize the implementation, but the design lacks imagination. As more magic schools come out, fighters may feel rewarded for keeping these skills for the edge in combat they will get, but the "cool" and interesting factor will continue going in the direction of magic users. I think taming should be a profession skill, as it will be many players' source of income, especially when breeding returns. Creature control, herding, and beast mastery are in the correct category, taming doesn't fit in the same way.
The changes to dex, int, and psy curves changed an awful lot. Lower int mages and hybrids have been gutted. The dex changes did what they were supposed to, and I think are an overall positive change. The int change nerfed foot mages, particularly dex mages really hard.The intelligence curve has made slower characters primary footmages, and I think that's a zerg friendly change. Sheevra can still be quick enough to evade most fighters, but the base MS of veela helped the adaptability, maneuverability, and unpredictability of battle on foot. Sheevra are more speed clade dependent. I think down the road, changes to the stat pool may be necessary and I hope SV has the foresight to issue reroll tokens to players who have already made their characters in the event that such changes come out.
3. Foot and Mounted
The first thing to be addressed is DISMOUNT. That NEEDS TO BE IN THE GAME. It is a core balance feature. The fact that it is not in the game prevents the players and devs from getting a good read on how mounted and foot combat will work in concert or against one another. The fact that it is still not even animated is really worrying. I'm also surprised that breeding isn’t implemented. I always thought breeding was a really cool feature of the game. Breeding is how you could get horses that regen stamina in second gear by tuning the weight and height of the horse in MO1. In MO2, horses are being broad brushed balanced by breed. This game relies on the depth of its systems. Bred mounts will be important for making mounted as a class stronger and more of an investment. Mount armor sucks, but in compensation it's inexpensive. Steel armor for a horse should provide pretty damn decent defenses but it should be costly as hell to make. That is what we were told, but it is not the case. Steel armor is really noticeable on a mount when it's double stacked. Just a normal steel horse armor? Underwhelming.
Foot really doesn't do anything against mounted. Foot has no recourse when being engaged by mounted. Bow the horse? Mages can heal while mounted so good luck. Dismount them if they come too close? EQ? Not in the game. If a fatmage wants to flamestrike a footie, they have to get pretty close. That should be the foot fighter's opportunity to play the game. You really don't.
4. Crafting and Materials
The MO1 weapon crafting system was a more complex, interesting, and fun system. I'll describe 2h weapons in MO1 to illustrate to those that didn't play it an idea of what I mean. 2H weapons had 3 shaft options: Short, long, and longer. The heads you could put on these weapons were every possible weapon head in the game. There were some busted examples (sledge on a lance) but these were fixed over time. A poleaxe had the same handle as a warhammer which had the same handle as an axe and so on. A mercy dagger could go on the end of a pole for a weakspot spear. The infamous polesword of MO1 was in fact a 2h shaft with a greatsword blade on the end. In this game, every weapon group has an assortment of handles with slightly different, but not self explanatory stats and hitboxes. In this manner, different weapon types have different stat groups. Compare swinging a 3.5 kg axe or hammer with a 3.5 kg sword and you'll see a noticeable difference in charge and swing speed. There are minute differences between blueprints of the same type and length. The new crafting has more names of weapon shafts, but the real underlying complexity has in fact been reduced.
I should also note that the stats of many materials, especially those brought from MO1 are janky. In a world with some sort of realism, why the hell is wood such a crap material for the shafts of weapons? It's not as though wood was the primary material for weapon shafts the world over for millennia, right? Oops....
Maybe unpopular, but I also want 10 piece armor sets back in the game. First, the level of customization it allowed for was really fun and rewarding, even as a player that scroached for years. Mixing armor types and materials to get armor sets under certain weight cutoffs was a really fun part of the game that was one of those real trade secrets. Lots of folks talk about the cool complexities in the game. 14 kg for years was the cutoff for stamina regen. Given the weight limit, armor crafters (or fighters that were buying the gear) had to find the right distribution of armor types to most effectively cover the body, all of course while looking cool. My 14 weight set was Draco (best piercing defense) Torso and boots, Direptor (best slashing defense) sleeves, shoulders, and pants, and Excubitor (mixed defense with better blunt) gloves and helmet. Excubitor gloves were abnormally light weight which pulled the set just under 14 at 13.92 weight. I love that kind of complexity and I feel like the 5 piece armor set limits how far that can go. 10 Piece armor sets also allowed fighters to wear tungsteel armor. Currently, only an oghmir with all armor clades can wear full tung. With 10 piece sets, by wearing scale pieces (gloves, shoulders, sometimes sleeves and boots) thursar fighters and even veela fighters with full armor training could wear appropriate heavy pieces.
5. Weapons and Combat
Okay, I know anyone who read my name before this post is waiting for me to say it: BUFF POLESWORDS!
They require 200 primary points. As such the appropriate weapon to compare them to is poleaxes. Poleswords are inferior. The stam drain is the worst of any class of weapons in the game, especially when adjusted for weight. The damage is a joke in comparison to poleaxes in both blunt (where it should be weaker, maybe not by this much) and pierce departments. They do not have any bonuses as a weapon group compared to poleaxes in the speed or handling department when adjusted for weight, which is where they realistically should offer an advantage.
Moving on. Parrying is too strong. I understand we are pretty gated into the stance based slasher combat of MO, and given that, the defensive playstyle is too strong. Time to kill is very high without magic. For one thing, holding your block remains a "parry" for way too long. In MO1, you could only be holding your block for a couple seconds before it became a "blocked" instead of a "parry." Re-upping your block allowed offensive players to try to time it with your release and get damage through. I'm not saying it was reliable, but it was an option at least. A common method of getting around blocks was to run super close to the opponent and try to hit them in the back. This was mostly removed when ping normalization was attempted by SV. That was probably a good thing, but it removed an offensive option without compensating by adding a new one. The game needs a method for foot fighters to land some meaningful damage on a defensively competent player. I'm not sure exactly how to go about this, but its absence is very noticeable.
Thanks for reading folks!
