Murder Count Timer is too Long

[pooternackle]

I'm not a red -- I go out of my way to keep murder counts below 5, but this is way too difficult to do without just allowing other players to walk all over you.

I attack kill stealers/loot thieves as long as doing so won't put me at 5 murder count. So, I was in the sewers, doing a quick clade xp/head run (not particularly good xp or lucrative, but I enjoy doing it once and a while) at 3 murder counts. A guy starts following me and killing scoundrels I put into mercy-mode. This happens several times and it becomes clear that the guy is going to continue following me, so I attack/kill him and, of course, he reports me for a murder. I'm at 4 murder count now, and below 50% hp.

I go and find a spot to hide to wait for the criminal timer to go off, but before I can do that, a noob with the most horrible aim appears. He fires arrow after arrow, and misses every shot. I run, but I soon find myself between a pack of scoundrels in front of me and the noob with horrible aim behind me. Remember, I'm at 50% hp (a bit less actually). I'll probably die if I run into the scoundrels while being fired at from behind. I turn around to go after bard the bowman's cursed offspring only to find that he is still blue and has yet to successfully land an arrow. I charge a good 20 in-game feet and attack him, finish him quickly, and he reports me for murder. I am now at 5 murder count, so I hide and let the criminal tag expire before returning to the surface. Now I'm pretty much stuck here for a day, since dying means I'm in for a 30 minute walk back to Tindrem.

Murder count timer needs to be drastically lowered in order to facilitate the most basic kind of pvp for blues.

 

[Bogler]

Sounds like the negatives to the flagging system we've all cried for ages to be changed. All I can do to soothe your woes is say that SV has stated they plan to add wilderness areas with everyone being local grey so things like that wouldn't be happening. I don't think there needs to be any change to murdercounts or criminal timer, except burning of murdercounts when logged off should be a thing instead of people AFKing to take space up on the server.

Let's just wait for wilderness to be placed and then we'll have our playground back.

 

[night_vision_elf]

Sounds to me like you got baited by the dude who kept missing shots on you lol.

 

[Tzone]

As a red player I think its find but I can see how its very harsh for people who accidentally went grey or got baited into going grey.

One issue is that mobs will reset you. I think they should have non guard mobs not reset crim timers. Also Idk if its a bug but I think that when someone rezzes and MCs you your MC resets which is pretty annoying.

They did the MC thing to stop people from logging out as now its a 4 min timer that you cant log out with which is what people did to avoid getting MCs.

I just which that all combatants get a 4min no log out timer.

 

[Morgenes]

why did you even kill him if he missed all shots.
I mean this is just a totally unnecessary mc you got here, 100% your own fault.

Still imho it should lower mc when killing "enemies of the faction" like bandits or risars.
Not to much (because grinding your way to blue should not be easy and still require some time) but at least a bit.

 

[pooternackle]

why did you even kill him if he missed all shots.
I mean this is just a totally unnecessary mc you got here, 100% your own fault.

what does SV expect us to do in a situation like mine? Just stand still until the person can successfully land a potentially lethal hit before retaliating?

 

[Morgenes]

what does SV expect us to do in a situation like mine? Just stand still until the person can successfully land a potentially lethal hit before retaliating?

You are murder. Run away, hide, or fight.
It's your decision and you should be aware of the consequences.
You can always regret, take your punishment and after that you can start to build a new life as friendly citizen.
That's why it is 5 murdenrcounts and not 1, because sometimes you need to kill a griefer. But at which point did you do only rightful kills and when are you becoming a pk?
No one knows and it's individual depending on each user, the areas you are playing with and every other user who is interacting with you and how.

If you come up with an algorithm or ai to calculate this threshold individually for every user you can send me the paper of the concept.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I'm not a red -- I go out of my way to keep murder counts below 5, but this is way too difficult to do without just allowing other players to walk all over you.

I attack kill stealers/loot thieves as long as doing so won't put me at 5 murder count. So, I was in the sewers, doing a quick clade xp/head run (not particularly good xp or lucrative, but I enjoy doing it once and a while) at 3 murder counts. A guy starts following me and killing scoundrels I put into mercy-mode. This happens several times and it becomes clear that the guy is going to continue following me, so I attack/kill him and, of course, he reports me for a murder. I'm at 4 murder count now, and below 50% hp.

I go and find a spot to hide to wait for the criminal timer to go off, but before I can do that, a noob with the most horrible aim appears. He fires arrow after arrow, and misses every shot. I run, but I soon find myself between a pack of scoundrels in front of me and the noob with horrible aim behind me. Remember, I'm at 50% hp (a bit less actually). I'll probably die if I run into the scoundrels while being fired at from behind. I turn around to go after bard the bowman's cursed offspring only to find that he is still blue and has yet to successfully land an arrow. I charge a good 20 in-game feet and attack him, finish him quickly, and he reports me for murder. I am now at 5 murder count, so I hide and let the criminal tag expire before returning to the surface. Now I'm pretty much stuck here for a day, since dying means I'm in for a 30 minute walk back to Tindrem.

Murder count timer needs to be drastically lowered in order to facilitate the most basic kind of pvp for blues.

Not to mention enable criminal actions Is a griefing tool. Can't blueblock the mob you are killing people can just indefinitely kill your Mobs.

Shitty dumbass mechanic ir you ask me, and anyone prove me wrong.

Sounds like the negatives to the flagging system we've all cried for ages to be changed. All I can do to soothe your woes is say that SV has stated they plan to add wilderness areas with everyone being local grey so things like that wouldn't be happening. I don't think there needs to be any change to murdercounts or criminal timer, except burning of murdercounts when logged off should be a thing instead of people AFKing to take space up on the server.

Let's just wait for wilderness to be placed and then we'll have our playground back.

The main reason why to make mcs burn offline Is for players not having to leave clients opened, not for server space, thats on them.

Anyways, speculating with something Henrik said they are going to do in the future Is nothing but another promise, he promises a lot and i don't see much delivered, specially when theres no real timeframe or ETA on these things, its just empty words. So i wouldn't bet its happening anytime soon, its important to address these flagging problematics.

As a red player I think its find but I can see how its very harsh for people who accidentally went grey or got baited into going grey.

One issue is that mobs will reset you. I think they should have non guard mobs not reset crim timers. Also Idk if its a bug but I think that when someone rezzes and MCs you your MC resets which is pretty annoying.

They did the MC thing to stop people from logging out as now its a 4 min timer that you cant log out with which is what people did to avoid getting MCs.

I just which that all combatants get a 4min no log out timer.

As a red myself i consider none of the things you mentioned Is acceptable, its a shitty system.
8h ingame murdercount would be acceptable if players had mechanics and alternatives to do shit outside lawless towns.
Right now everything Is too restrictive and not only to deep reds (who might not care anymore) but the people from a diversity of plastyles.

why did you even kill him if he missed all shots.
I mean this is just a totally unnecessary mc you got here, 100% your own fault.

Still imho it should lower mc when killing "enemies of the faction" like bandits or risars.
Not to much (because grinding your way to blue should not be easy and still require some time) but at least a bit.

When on a dungeon theres Mobs, he clearly said that was between bandits and the Archer and was forced to choose to either run across many creatures gaining agro with a chance of death or to engage combat to defend himself and not to die.
According to SV local grey still ingame but it's the same as if it werent.

what does SV expect us to do in a situation like mine? Just stand still until the person can successfully land a potentially lethal hit before retaliating?

They don't know what to expect. As far as they know everything works as intended, everything Is great and this last local grey patch fixed the game.

But for real right now they expect that if you have 5+ murdercounts have to do really long naked runs to regear and leave your client opened with macro afk to burn murdercounts.
This Is what happens when theres no design and implement careless bullshit without thinking.

 

[Xenom]

I think if the consequences are too little it would be kill on sight nearly everywhere all the time and mortal online would just be a gankbox like most other attempts at sandbox pvp genre.

This would just lead to mortal offline soonTM and I think starvault is well aware of that so I think the plan with having kind of lawless zones where you know about the higher risk before is good and should offer a place where you can pvp besides pve all you want.

The rest of the world should have quite harsh consequences while it still should be possible to be attacked.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I think if the consequences are too little it would be kill on sight nearly everywhere all the time and mortal online would just be a gankbox like most other attempts at sandbox pvp genre.

This would just lead to mortal offline soonTM and I think starvault is well aware of that so I think the plan with having kind of lawless zones where you know about the higher risk before is good and should offer a place where you can pvp besides pve all you want.

The rest of the world should have quite harsh consequences while it still should be possible to be attacked.

I consider the world should be diegetic and law exist only where it should, which Is around cities and id even like to see a player report system thats not as poop as this one.
People should contest shit freely away of town áreas and the sight of guards.
What a better way to populate an empty world.

What you said might sound good in the abstract plane, but right now its just another promise. And we will see how it materializes into the game and if it does.

 

[pooternackle]

You are murder. Run away, hide, or fight.
It's your decision and you should be aware of the consequences.
You can always regret, take your punishment and after that you can start to build a new life as friendly citizen.
That's why it is 5 murdenrcounts and not 1, because sometimes you need to kill a griefer. But at which point did you do only rightful kills and when are you becoming a pk?
No one knows and it's individual depending on each user, the areas you are playing with and every other user who is interacting with you and how.

If you come up with an algorithm or ai to calculate this threshold individually for every user you can send me the paper of the concept.

I did run away. The guy with bad aim followed me shooting the entire time, missing. I only turned around to fight because I was left witha choice of aggroing a pack of mobs (while being fired at from behind) or attacking the blue trying unsuccessfully to put an arrow in me.

 

[Xenom]

I consider the world should be diegetic and law exist only where it should, which Is around cities and id even like to see a player report system thats not as poop as this one.
People should contest shit freely away of town áreas and the sight of guards.
What a better way to populate an empty world.

What you said might sound good in the abstract plane, but right now its just another promise. And we will see how it materializes into the game and if it does.

Most games that did this ended up without any one populating anything

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Most games that did this ended up without any one populating anything

This Is not "most games" really lame argument if you ask me.

 

[Jatix]

TLDR the games flagging system sucks. People call it a sandbox but if you try to actual have players govern the world they get published for it. Killing the guy stealing your kills and loot isnt worth it. You just get to go to the surface and log out.

And you 100% got baited sadly lol. Which is stupid. It's sad that the game has hit a point where hes more interested in being able to give you a MC and standing loss than he is actually trying to kill you.

 

[Xenom]

This Is not "most games" really lame argument if you ask me.

When I talk about most games in this regard I am talking about sandbox mmos like darkfall which apparently failed for said reasons while other sandbox attempts like eve or even albion are thriving for years already which very much is because they are no kill on sight everywhere but real sandbox games with rules and consequences when attacking in safer areas.

I just think a sandbox game is and should not be a pure pvp game but should have room for more playstyles - being a PK, pirate whatever being one of them but with a consequence

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

When I talk about most games in this regard I am talking about sandbox mmos like darkfall which apparently failed for said reasons while other sandbox attempts like eve or even albion are thriving for years already which very much is because they are no kill on sight everywhere but real sandbox games with rules and consequences when attacking in safer areas.

I just think a sandbox game is and should not be a pure pvp game but should have room for more playstyles - being a PK, pirate whatever being one of them but with a consequence

Darkfall failed due to several other issues, that you fail to understand the why doesn't mean the "only reason" was un-punished player killing.
Can compare other games till a certain degree cuz even if they may share some aspects and "look alike" they are not the same and the nature of the games Is completly different to eachother.

I cannot speak for the "mmo sandox" genre, and what it should or could be since theres a bast mayority of ways each game could configure their universe, directed for certain public.

I do think part of the magic mortal has Is that theres no safezones. I do pve, as i did in MO1 that doesn't mean either experience should exclude one or the other. Perhaps you need to understand the fact that the game Is designed that way, for players to interact in different ways. What people often fails to understand Is the use of game resources to minimize risks. Not saying there shouldn't be consequences, but rather see more meaningfull mechanics that encourage players to play instead of just giving murdercounts and having to do 20m naked runs for regear.
The main problematic Is people not understanding how to play instead they vouch for more and severe restrictions.
If people wanna do careless relaxed pve without the dangers of the world mortal offers then gotta invest certain degree of thought and planning, if too lazy to try and understand how to minimize risks then don't get mad if you die when being careless, its part of the risk-reward offered by mortal's universe.

I see so many people vouching for more restrictions, and thats how you turn a game rich in human interaction into themepark.

 

[Xenom]

Darkfall failed due to several other issues, that you fail to understand the why doesn't mean the "only reason" was un-punished player killing.
Can compare other games till a certain degree cuz even if they may share some aspects and "look alike" they are not the same and the nature of the games Is completly different to eachother.

I cannot speak for the "mmo sandox" genre, and what it should or could be since theres a bast mayority of ways each game could configure their universe, directed for certain public.

I do think part of the magic mortal has Is that theres no safezones. I do pve, as i did in MO1 that doesn't mean either experience should exclude one or the other. Perhaps you need to understand the fact that the game Is designed that way, for players to interact in different ways. What people often fails to understand Is the use of game resources to minimize risks. Not saying there shouldn't be consequences, but rather see more meaningfull mechanics that encourage players to play instead of just giving murdercounts and having to do 20m naked runs for regear.
The main problematic Is people not understanding how to play instead they vouch for more and severe restrictions.
If people wanna do careless relaxed pve without the dangers of the world mortal offers then gotta invest certain degree of thought and planning, if too lazy to try and understand how to minimize risks then don't get mad if you die when being careless, its part of the risk-reward offered by mortal's universe.

I see so many people vouching for more restrictions, and thats how you turn a game rich in human interaction into themepark.

Never said there should be safe zones where you cannot be attacked but there should be consequences for going red and on a rampage and it would not work if everything outside town would be some kind of lawless zone where you can kill anyone without consequences. the magic behind a good sandbox game with pvp is that you have areas where there is rules/consequences for attacking other players (mind you no safe zone in the form of not being able to get attacked at all) and zones that are of higher risk and reward without those consequences (like eve has for example: empire space, low sec space, 0.0 space - this formula basically is what i think a good sandbox game with full loot and pvp should aim for).

if you think that it would work without any rules other than players being the only way to declare an area "safe" it may be your opinion and i have a different one. darkfall still failed mainly exactly to this tho there surely have been other problems as well. having consequences for being a murder/rpk has nothing to do with a themepark. if all you wanna do is kill players without anything else i think some sort of lobby based shooter is what fills that role.

 

[tumor]

sounds like you pvp griefed too much buddy

 

[pooternackle]

sounds like you pvp griefed too much buddy

Even if I went wilding and killed everyone in sight (which I didn’t/don’t/will not - I’ve been blue since launch except for this isolated incident), 5 kills is way too low for the game to give you what is essentially a time-out lasting multiple days worth of long play sessions.

 

[koruun]

I go and find a spot to hide to wait for the criminal timer to go off, but before I can do that, a noob with the most horrible aim appears. He fires arrow after arrow, and misses every shot. I run, but I soon find myself between a pack of scoundrels in front of me and the noob with horrible aim behind me. Remember, I'm at 50% hp (a bit less actually). I'll probably die if I run into the scoundrels while being fired at from behind. I turn around to go after bard the bowman's cursed offspring only to find that he is still blue and has yet to successfully land an arrow. I charge a good 20 in-game feet and attack him, finish him quickly, and he reports me for murder. I am now at 5 murder count, so I hide and let the criminal tag expire before returning to the surface. Now I'm pretty much stuck here for a day, since dying means I'm in for a 30 minute walk back to Tindrem.

Murder count timer needs to be drastically lowered in order to facilitate the most basic kind of pvp for blues.

you got baited so hard lmao