Move Server('s) to NA [Poll]

Should the servers be moved to NA?

  • Yes

    Votes: 108 62.4%
  • No

    Votes: 45 26.0%
  • Indifferent

    Votes: 20 11.6%

  • Total voters
    173
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ThaBadMan

Well-known member
May 28, 2020
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Norway
No matter what would happen, even if the server was placed on the north pole, with ping normalization ping stopped matter for most.
With slow ass combat it dont matter. Simple as that.

This is like every single of MOs past jesus patches. The trend continues I guess...
 

ElPerro

Well-known member
Jun 9, 2020
698
788
93
No matter what would happen, even if the server was placed on the north pole, with ping normalization ping stopped matter for most.
With slow ass combat it dont matter. Simple as that.

This is like every single of MOs past jesus patches. The trend continues I guess...
If more ppl had better ping on average to the server, they could potentially start speeding combat more tho
 

Morpheus

Guest
Jul 20, 2020
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Guys, I see this thread is getting heated and brought off topic, and you're doing pretty well ignoring some of it. Try to keep this civil please, and don't just derail it with pointless arguments, just keep the discussions reasonable and do not insult each other. Thanks for reading and Happy New Year.
-Mod Morpheus
 

Handsome Young Man

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2020
656
490
93
Guys, I see this thread is getting heated and brought off topic, and you're doing pretty well ignoring some of it. Try to keep this civil please, and don't just derail it with pointless arguments, just keep the discussions reasonable and do not insult each other. Thanks for reading and Happy New Year.
-Mod Morpheus
I appreciate it. Gets annoying trying to hold a discussion when half of it has been becoming nothing but that.
 
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Putzin

Well-known member
Oct 14, 2020
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1. If anyone can post data representing where the population that played MO1 was located, at its peak population times.
2. If anyone can post data representing where the population that plays now is located.
3. If people can post any data found representing ping levels from both an EU or NA sources (other than Valoran's findings).

Those would help the thread go a long way.

#FreeNA ##NAserverplz
 
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Svaar

Active member
Nov 4, 2020
187
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Russia/Moscow
If anyone can post data representing where the population that played MO1 was in the irl world, at its peak or if people can post any data found representing ping levels from both an EU or NA sources (other than Valoran's findings) that would help the thread go a long way.

#FreeNA ##NAserverplz
You have already been answered this and you come back to it again. Now the development of MO2 is underway, the statistics on sales and the picture of the regions that will buy MO2 will be radically different from MO1. It is foolish to use statistics from the first part and apply them to the second. To complete the picture, you need to wait for the game releases and build the analysis on the players who entered the second project.

also consider the fact that in the first part people played bypassing steam played from the launcher. only SV knows this statistics

ping from Moscow to London 52. ping from Moscow to New York 180-250 +.IMG_20210105_064149.jpgIMG_20210105_064054.jpg

why is this a problem for you? when we encounter you in battle, we do not experience desynchronization during battle. out of sync is a problem with guys from australia and japan. with the guys from America, for the most part during the battle, it happens in the same way as with the rest of the players from other regions.
 
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Kaemik

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2020
1,755
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Some statistics are better than no statistics. And isolating some cases where pings will go up when there are many cases they will go down isn't data you can make a decision on.

The data should be based on which server location results in the lowest average pings for all players. Average not meaning nobody's ping goes up, but that the number of pings going down and how much they goes down results in a lower mean and/or median ping across the board.

MO1 data is better than no data.
MO2 alpha data considered alongside MO1 data is better than MO1 data in isolation.
Making a decision based on data available now and correcting that decision if after-release data doesn't line up with it is best of all.

And not using data, making a decision that goes against the best data sources currently available, or waiting until after game release to make any decision are the worst available options from a business perspective.
 
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Putzin

Well-known member
Oct 14, 2020
341
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You have already been answered this and you come back to it again. Now the development of MO2 is underway, the statistics on sales and the picture of the regions that will buy MO2 will be radically different from MO1. It is foolish to use statistics from the first part and apply them to the second. To complete the picture, you need to wait for the game releases and build the analysis on the players who entered the second project.

also consider the fact that in the first part people played bypassing steam played from the launcher. only SV knows this statistics

ping from Moscow to London 52. ping from Moscow to New York 180-250 +.View attachment 660View attachment 661

why is this a problem for you? when we encounter you in battle, we do not experience desynchronization during battle. out of sync is a problem with guys from australia and japan. with the guys from America, for the most part during the battle, it happens in the same way as with the rest of the players from other regions.

Well I guess now we know why you're so actively biased against NA

Btw have seen more french players in the beta then russians.. And thats like 5 or 6

PS - Thanks for the additional data
 

Handsome Young Man

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2020
656
490
93
You have already been answered this and you come back to it again. Now the development of MO2 is underway, the statistics on sales and the picture of the regions that will buy MO2 will be radically different from MO1. It is foolish to use statistics from the first part and apply them to the second. To complete the picture, you need to wait for the game releases and build the analysis on the players who entered the second project.

also consider the fact that in the first part people played bypassing steam played from the launcher. only SV knows this statistics

ping from Moscow to London 52. ping from Moscow to New York 180-250 +.View attachment 660View attachment 661

why is this a problem for you? when we encounter you in battle, we do not experience desynchronization during battle. out of sync is a problem with guys from australia and japan. with the guys from America, for the most part during the battle, it happens in the same way as with the rest of the players from other regions.


Just to clarify, for the.. I don't even know how many times I've had to say this..

Awesome. I am glad you do not experience a desync in battle, or that you don't see others experience it. But guess what? A majority of players do experience it rather than not. A server that is better placed for a MAJORITY to experience is better than to cater to a MINORITY.

So let me lay this out step-by-step.

Henrik and Star Vault are currently working on a system to help players with high ping. Right? So far, it's been working.. to some extent. But it's not perfect, nor' will it ever be perfect. These kinds of changes however directly effect many manners of gameplay, currently the hot topic of such is combat. Combat is effected severely by this kind of thing - because now the way combat works has to be fine tuned to both low and high pings. Doing that creates tons of variables that equal to a lot of problems.

But not only this, tons of higher-ping players do not experience smooth gameplay. I say smooth gameplay and people immediately revert back to the idea of "You just want better ping in PvP." No. Everything players do in game, will feel better, more responsive - i.e. smoother. UI, key strokes, interacting with AI whether it's a mob / vendor, you name it. The overall game experience for a majority of players would improve - and the best part is, western europe would still have a pretty good gameplay experience - where the second heaviest pop. is at. So not only would you be able to make NA, SA, AU, and outlier countries like Japan have better connections - you could also keep Western EU relatively competitive.

For example, I currently get anywhere from 155 to 165 ping in MO2, and I'm in Texas. People further west of me probably get way higher then that and compared to the east coast of the U.S., they get anywhere from 100 to 110. There's literally a 100 to 120 ping difference within the U.S. alone because of the current server location.

No, this isn't "This is about the U.S." but this shows that one of the biggest countries that would have at minimum a quarter of the pop (25%) in MO2 and at best more than a third (30-35%) would be, comparatively, at higher ping then most players.

Australia and Japan, are honestly outliers. But it's not just Australia and Japan that benefit. It's Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Peru, Chile, Venezuela.. and all the other South American countries.. and the thing is, I personally know some SA players and knew SA had a fairly noticeable presence in MO1.

This 'idea' to move servers wasn't some targeted scheme to put down Russian players, or to steal a ping advantage from the EU. It's to allow a flat increase in the amount of players with lower ping, so that Henrik's system is in better effect - which guess what.. includes Russian players. He even said himself he is working on sync problems. Now if they moved it and you did have 200 ping, you'd have basically an NA west coast players ping - which you even say now when you fight against such you don't see any problems. So what's the problem, Svaar? If you don't see any problems with it, then you should be fine at 200 ping.

Not to mention, from the Steam Launch data - Russia accounted for 10% of the pop while the U.S. accounted for 30%. Yes, a lot of western european countries also attribute to the full statistics, but so do the rest of NA, SA, AU, and Japan and other outlier OCE countries.

The game will be more successful with an NA based server, especially if the game is a buy-to-play game with a sub. New players who read the Steam page and don't realize the servers location only to find out they have guaranteed high ping is going to be off putting, would it be the same elsewhere like in the EU or Russia? Yeah, people don't like playing with high ping - it's why I believe you're so adamant in not agreeing with this idea, even though Henrik said he's making efforts to make this system better (Which, if it works - would benefit more people having the server in NA.).

If we could all play on one server with 0 ping issues, I'd love that. No one is trying to go against you - this would just benefit the community as a whole rather than pursue what it did in the past with MO1 by leaving it in the EU even though there are numbers saying otherwise.
 

Svaar

Active member
Nov 4, 2020
187
131
43
44
Russia/Moscow
Just to clarify, for the.. I don't even know how many times I've had to say this..

Awesome. I am glad you do not experience a desync in battle, or that you don't see others experience it. But guess what? A majority of players do experience it rather than not. A server that is better placed for a MAJORITY to experience is better than to cater to a MINORITY.

So let me lay this out step-by-step.

Henrik and Star Vault are currently working on a system to help players with high ping. Right? So far, it's been working.. to some extent. But it's not perfect, nor' will it ever be perfect. These kinds of changes however directly effect many manners of gameplay, currently the hot topic of such is combat. Combat is effected severely by this kind of thing - because now the way combat works has to be fine tuned to both low and high pings. Doing that creates tons of variables that equal to a lot of problems.

But not only this, tons of higher-ping players do not experience smooth gameplay. I say smooth gameplay and people immediately revert back to the idea of "You just want better ping in PvP." No. Everything players do in game, will feel better, more responsive - i.e. smoother. UI, key strokes, interacting with AI whether it's a mob / vendor, you name it. The overall game experience for a majority of players would improve - and the best part is, western europe would still have a pretty good gameplay experience - where the second heaviest pop. is at. So not only would you be able to make NA, SA, AU, and outlier countries like Japan have better connections - you could also keep Western EU relatively competitive.

For example, I currently get anywhere from 155 to 165 ping in MO2, and I'm in Texas. People further west of me probably get way higher then that and compared to the east coast of the U.S., they get anywhere from 100 to 110. There's literally a 100 to 120 ping difference within the U.S. alone because of the current server location.

No, this isn't "This is about the U.S." but this shows that one of the biggest countries that would have at minimum a quarter of the pop (25%) in MO2 and at best more than a third (30-35%) would be, comparatively, at higher ping then most players.

Australia and Japan, are honestly outliers. But it's not just Australia and Japan that benefit. It's Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Colombia, Peru, Chile, Venezuela.. and all the other South American countries.. and the thing is, I personally know some SA players and knew SA had a fairly noticeable presence in MO1.

This 'idea' to move servers wasn't some targeted scheme to put down Russian players, or to steal a ping advantage from the EU. It's to allow a flat increase in the amount of players with lower ping, so that Henrik's system is in better effect - which guess what.. includes Russian players. He even said himself he is working on sync problems. Now if they moved it and you did have 200 ping, you'd have basically an NA west coast players ping - which you even say now when you fight against such you don't see any problems. So what's the problem, Svaar? If you don't see any problems with it, then you should be fine at 200 ping.

Not to mention, from the Steam Launch data - Russia accounted for 10% of the pop while the U.S. accounted for 30%. Yes, a lot of western european countries also attribute to the full statistics, but so do the rest of NA, SA, AU, and Japan and other outlier OCE countries.

The game will be more successful with an NA based server, especially if the game is a buy-to-play game with a sub. New players who read the Steam page and don't realize the servers location only to find out they have guaranteed high ping is going to be off putting, would it be the same elsewhere like in the EU or Russia? Yeah, people don't like playing with high ping - it's why I believe you're so adamant in not agreeing with this idea, even though Henrik said he's making efforts to make this system better (Which, if it works - would benefit more people having the server in NA.).

If we could all play on one server with 0 ping issues, I'd love that. No one is trying to go against you - this would just benefit the community as a whole rather than pursue what it did in the past with MO1 by leaving it in the EU even though there are numbers saying otherwise.
if the problem out of 100 people is observed only for 10 of them, why create problems in the future for 90 players for 10? so I hope it is clearer? this is a rough example. I mean that only a few people from your region are experiencing problems, but for the sake of these units you want to create additional problems and drive into the risk zone the majority, who will play on the border of ping dependence.
 

Kaemik

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2020
1,755
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No we want the the lowest average ping for the playerbase as a whole. Wherever that has us putting the server.

Your argument seems to boil down to "My ping will go up, that trumps evidence that there are more players pings who will go down because I don't believe the reliability of that data, therefore we shouldn't do it."

What we should be doing is using the best data available now to determine what location the server should go in. Not isolated points of data like yours, but getting a realistic map of where most MO2 players live, and what server location will give the greatest number of them the lowest pings.

That should be done right now, with the best data available at this moment so that on launch day the greatest number of people are experiencing the best results. If after the game launches they are like "Holy cow 90% of our players are in Moscow! We need to move to a server that better meets their needs!" then by all means change it again at that point.

I don't think that will happen. MO2 data and MO1 player location data are likely to look very similar, especially if the MO1 and MO2 alpha data follows similar trends. But if they don't then fix it. You can put the server in Antarctica if that is where the data supports putting it. I really think the data is going to support somewhere in or near NA though.
 
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Handsome Young Man

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2020
656
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if the problem out of 100 people is observed only for 10 of them, why create problems in the future for 90 players for 10? so I hope it is clearer? this is a rough example. I mean that only a few people from your region are experiencing problems, but for the sake of these units you want to create additional problems and drive into the risk zone the majority, who will play on the border of ping dependence.

*Sigh*.

I believe the language barrier is too great, because that is not what I said.

By your example, that means more players have problems currently - which they do. It also isn't about creating problems, it's about lessening them across the board. It has nothing to do to begin with players experiencing lag / desync issues (Even though it would help if an NA server was present). My point is to create a better gameplay experience across the board for a broader audience.

The rough and exaggerated example of 90 players out of a 100 getting worse gameplay is just that, exaggerated.

No, I want the majority to benefit. This is the opposite of what I'm saying.
 

Limmbo

New member
Jul 10, 2020
10
7
3
I am a player from Asia, and you are trying to prove to me that it will be better for me to play on the American server, hmm okay
 

Limmbo

New member
Jul 10, 2020
10
7
3
just forget about mortal 1, it has been dead for a long time, do not try to prove something to new players with it
 

Kaemik

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2020
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I am a player from Asia, and you are trying to prove to me that it will be better for me to play on the American server, hmm okay

It's not clear who you are talking to since you didn't quote anyone in any of your posts. But no. I've heard some parts of Asia such as Japan may have faster speeds on NA servers but others will not.

The point is individual cases are irrelevant. Only the overall affect.

Ping Scenario.jpg

In the simplified case above, if you're Player 9 or 10 you want the server to be in Greentown. You personally will benefit from that.

However the people running said game should go with Bluetown, and Redtown before Greentown. Bluetown is going to produce the best ping for the greatest number of players.

Now I personally would create a bluetown, redtown, and greentown hosted continent that are all part of the same world. One world that you can travel around in with continents that have different local hosts. I might not give greentown a continent the same size as bluetown since it only has 2 players that will enjoy the best experience there as opposed to 5, but I'd create three continents proportional to their populations that have all basic resources some dungeons and some unique trade items.

But barring that, if we're going one world, one server hosting every continent, then that server should be located in bluetown.

Bringing this back to the real world. I believe North America is "bluetown". It's going to produce the lowest mean and median ping. If I am wrong, and data shows that, then it should be put wherever the real "bluetown" is.
 
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Handsome Young Man

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2020
656
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It's not clear who you are talking to since you didn't quote anyone in any of your posts. But no. I've heard some parts of Asia such as Japan may have faster speeds on NA servers but others will not.

The point is individual cases are irrelevant. Only the overall affect.

View attachment 667

In the simplified case above, if you're Player 9 or 10 you want the server to be in Greentown. You personally will benefit from that.

However the people running said game should go with Bluetown, and Redtown before Greentown. Bluetown is going to produce the best ping for the greatest number of players.

Now I personally would create a bluetown, redtown, and greentown hosted continent that are all part of the same world. One world that you can travel around in with continents that have different local hosts. I might not give greentown a continent the same size as bluetown since it only has 2 players that will enjoy the best experience there as opposed to 5, but I'd create three continents proportional to their populations that have all basic resources some dungeons and some unique trade items.

But barring that, if we're going one world, one server hosting every continent, then that server should be located in bluetown.

Bringing this back to the real world. I believe North America is "bluetown". It's going to produce the lowest mean and median ping. If I am wrong, and data shows that, then it should be put wherever the real "bluetown" is.

If SV came out and flat out said.

"We listened, and reflected on our data - it shows that the best place for the server is currently where it is." you wouldn't hear a fucking peep out of me about vying for better average ping.

But it just so happens that I don't think that is the case, my instincts say this is being very much looked into.. and statistically speaking on what we do have it reflects that a server move would be beneficial.

It's a minor detail, but most popular / successful MMO's are NA dev. based with servers reflecting that.
 
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Handsome Young Man

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2020
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aahenrik.PNG

Henrik is assured that they will rectify the issues on their end, server side. It seems one server only in the UK is what they are going for.

I appreciate all the support people provided in going out and researching things, as well as the meaningful debates and conversations.

However, this thread has displayed as well the polar opposite which I do not support and do not agree with. Disagreeing with an idea is one thing, but to say it is wrong without actual statistics, proof, data, etc. and only your word / anecdotal experiences is building up arguments on quick sand. The added rudeness along the lines of people saying discussions such as this are "pointless" or "stupid" are the exact same kind of people who would follow without questioning where and why.

Please, if you're going to interject your say on something; be ready to back it up without resorting to near cancel-culture levels of debate tactics. It's counter productive.

I'd appreciate it if a mod closed this thread. @Erras @Tergeo @Morpheus @Hantsu Kyudo
 
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