Mounted Maneuverability - Dexterity Bonus Beta Feedback Concern

[XxZoddxX]

To SV Dev team,

RE: “Alvarin advantage on mounted combat due to high dexterity caps that no other race can match.”
“I did not know Alvarin was supposed to be the best mounted race”

I do not normally post in forums, but it’s to close to comfort till release so I’m posting here in hopes you see the feedBack I’d like to give on state of mounted combat due to dexterity change.
I’ve played Mounted combat in MO2 beta for over 700 hours and tested it in game extensively whenever there was a patch with mounted balance changes ranging from weapons, mounted speed, armors, and practicality etc.

1. My main concern at the moment with the state of Mounted Combat is not even that there is a Dexterity requirement for increased maneuverability and acceleration. But that there does not seem to be a curve on dexterity increasing maneuverability and acceleration.
For example: the difference between all race but alvarin races (thursar, ogmir,human) average dexterity cap of about 90 VS alvarin’s cap of dexterity in the 120s .
When I tested the difference in acceleration and especially maneuverability with the avg. dexterity of races of 90 vs 120s the difference is extremely noticeable and almost laughable when in actual PVP combat.
2. The main concern with this is that no other race besides Alvarin can achieve this dexterity. After playing mounted combat as much as I did you will find out that one of the most important aspects of mounted combat is maneuverability.
For example: mounted lancing VS a full dexterity Alvarin. Sense the dexterity change it is almost impossible to caught a mounted Alvarin when lancing. The only way a lancer can caught a MA is to out maneuver them. The problem you can not out maneuver MA Alvarin, their turn radius is ridiculous and unmatched. I tried to caught a mounted Alvarin MA who was useing (double horse armor) (which should make him not only slow but a lower turn radius aswell due to the weight) with lancing and he was un caught able with how fast he could turn away even with DOUBLE HORSE ARMOR and still had more turning speed to boot. That’s how much of a difference it makes. Literally no point to using lances to fight other mounted when you can not touch them. Especially after horse 4 speed nerf, there is no answer for lancing now, just get kited and dismounted If all you can do is mounted lancing.
3. Please test it for yourself with 90dex vs 120dex player same horse armor weight and run around in circles and watch how many times a alvarin will lap over the 90 dex races. It’s wouldn’t be a problem if other races can hit 120 dex but they obviously can not.
4. The solution/suggestion in my opinion would be to add a dexterity curve to how much dexterity effects mounted maneuverability, kind of like the intelligence curve, it gets better after a certain point then falls off. {If the average dexterity that races can achieve is around 90 then that’s where dexterity should start to fall off as a bonus to mounted acceleration and maneuverability.} The dexterity bonus is just to strong to stay as it seems a linear bonus after testing it.
Example: 15 dexterity = 0% bonus 90dex=100% bonus 120dex= 110% tops and not 130% or even more which is what it is right now most likely.

As it is now you need to have around 110 dexterity to have good mobility on mounted. And 3/4 races can not come close to that Dexterity. Anything else is sluggish in comparison.

Alvarin are already the fastest and most mobile on foot and now mounted aswell?
Alvarin is not the main mounted race last time I checked and shouldn’t be, but it’s looking stronger because of this more dexterity more turn radius requirement and the linear dexterity bonus to mounted maneuverability bonus.

Sorry for any bad typing or errors I’m typing on phone, just had to get this out there .

Thanks

Zodd

 

[Emdash]

I'm glad to know it matters, but I understand your concerns. I was asking my friend when I was on a 94 dex and he was on a sheev about how the turn rate was affecting him, and he was like don't really see a difference. I was like wat no way?? I def think dex should give a big bonus though, but I have a problem with MC in general being lance based (miss hitting dudes w/ axes), an alv has to be a MA or a MM, and both are highly viable so your concerns are legit. However, I want there to stay some difference, but yea CURVE. MO never did the curve thing well, that's how we got the whole 60 ifnot 100 int debacle.

They muffed it w/ the str req on mounted, yet again. Change that a bit so you don't have to run a low 90 dex build (or lower) to use decent weps. What about just raw %?? hue hue, but I'm 127 dex Seems like around 100 should be baseline though. I don't think MC is anywhere near where it should be because you almost never see them, so it's broken in many, many ways. INCREASED LANCE DMG is about the only thing I've seen, and like I said lances should be a thing, but not the ONLY THING, they should be a different type of MC.

It's actually cool to have alv MA be a thing now, and having epic dex, just like epic footspeed is something only an alv can get. The thing is, on foot, it matters a lot, but it's not game breaking. It sounds game breaking on mount. The fact you can stout an alv and take bow gifts to use the some of the highest str bows though kinda ruins the idea of alv ma. Maybe they should only apply to ground. Cuz I mean ARCHERS ARM, ARCHERS shoulder... that's kind of implying that you are using some stance to draw. That stance is not going to apply on a mount.

MC needs a lot of love, foremost. They actually nerfed MC into the ground. It seems like MC is good at lancing foot people, but I mean the whole gank bus thing seems gone. That's kind of a single-tear moment for me. Even tho obviously it sucks to get got by one. It added a new layer.

In short, I agree they should adjust it, but I think 90 is too low for a base line, that's like close to max str. You have to take some kind of debuff to be max str on foot. But in general, I'd like to see a vid... could you make a vid? I believe you, but it'll make a lot more sense to me if I actually see it.

 

[Tashka]

It's no the issue with alvarins having lots of maneurability, but rather that MC is so weak. I wouldn't mind if lancers could nearly one-shot people at full speed, this way we could all just say that "alvarin MA counters lancers" and be done with it.

 

[Emdash]

I wouldn't mind if lancers could nearly one-shot people at full speed,

I think I would mind that LOL.

More thoroughly (altho it makes my post less funny!), the MC issue is definitely extensive. The fact that horses are squishier affects MC the most, the fact that horse armor slows down your horse affects MC the most. I mean, truth be told, DEX AND ARMOR should affect your accel and ability to maneuver. People hard hated on MC because it was very effective esp v foot and vs any other mounted build except maybe fatmage, but with the double charge, even then. MC v MC or MC v foot in a group fight was very, very cool though, in my opinion. Bull horses were stupid tanky and they were hitting really hard though. In response, they just did what they do... nerfed it into the ground.

Lance dmg or dmg in general is probably the last thing that needs to be addressed about MC, imo. The thing is that they have to get close on horses that are now squishier and tank hits in armor that now makes them slower. That's a steep hill to climb balance wise. If they introduced combat mounts that were tankier and slower (maybe even a bit smaller to give love to mc swing arc) but able to carry armor better, so you could really go to war on one but not just zip around after any other mounted build, that would be a start. But yea I mean MC dmg could be 999 and it still wouldn't be good IMO. It would be wack if you got caught by one haha. It would def break the game, but it wouldn't be any sort of embodiment of what MC should be in a game or close to what MC was (barring the tankiness/speed of bull horses) in Mo1, when they finally put some effort into making it so that TM axe was the best wep you could use.

 

[Tashka]

I think I would mind that LOL.

Well MC only works on a favorable ground and it's easy to avoid - much easier than say a good hammer that can hit hard af too. I don't see how MC can be a thing if it doesn't deal BIG DAMAGE, like highest damage in game.

 

[XxZoddxX]

It's no the issue with alvarins having lots of maneurability, but rather that MC is so weak. I wouldn't mind if lancers could nearly one-shot people at full speed, this way we could all just say that "alvarin MA counters lancers" and be done with it.

Well it’s ok for them to have alittle more maneuverability on mounted sense they have more alott more dexterity , but i mean it should only go so far on mounted, it’s just to much. have you tested it and seen how much of difference it makes? It’s almost comical. It’s not so much about countering MC as it is just being too over all strong.

MCs do okie damage to mounted and players at moment. They do a lot less damage right now because they nerfed the speed of horses to the ground which in of course decreases damage due to lower velocity.
it’s not great but acceptable only by the fact that we expect to have breeding and that’s how we will have better horses instead of these now “normal” horses. Better breed horse= more speed=more damage. At least that’s what I think the devs are thinking.

But ya The roof for good mobility on mounted should be lowered at least by alittle bit.Like I said before most races can only get in the 90s dexterity, and even 90 dexterity is subpar when you compare it to 120 dex mounted. 90 dexterity mobility is not even that great, it’s just acceptable, which shouldn’t be the case of you race literally can not get to the dex cap.
Do I need to roll Alvarin if I want to be a stronger MC? They already do not need any damage% because that does not affect lancing damage( a 7% Alvarin does the same damage as a 33% thusar) I mean which is okish because it’s based of velocity and not strength . But Now alittle elf is going to out lance all of races?
A quick in game example, about lancing in MO2 you are not lancing people at full speed almost always, if you want to do more damage you need to : 1. hit someone then 2. Decelerate and start turning to get back on target faster 4. Accelerate and hit them again. 5. Repeat steps 1-4 . So the faster you can complete steps 2-4 the more damage you technically can do. And who can do it the fastest because they have more dexterity and they decelerate and accelerate AND turn faster on mounted? Alvarins. So In all technicality a Alvarin can do the most damage in a REAL in game situation which doesn’t sound right. And I already gave an example on how good they can be at MA.
My point is there just needs to be a curve on the dexterity once you get past the 90dex cap of other races. Not so much about “nerfing” alvarins but more so balancing at least having decent mobility at 90dex.
I mean before they added the dexterity requirement, mobility was decent,but After they added it you need to have at least 90 dex to even come close to how it used to feel and it’s still worse even though 90ish dex is the best you can get , while at 120 character actually has BETTER mobility then before they added this dex requirement. If I could pump more points into dex as human I would just to be better mounted but you really can not, you are race locked there , which kills build diversely because no race can hit 120 beside Alvarin . Point being it still needs alittle balance, a curve based off the average races 90dex will fix it.

 

[Tashka]

I may be wrong but don't lances have rather high str req which makes it tough for the alvarin?

 

[XxZoddxX]

I may be wrong but don't lances have rather high str req which makes it tough for the alvarin?

Lances are high strength requirement yes but if alvain has 93 strength they can use “ over strengthed” lances decently, they can even use up to 121 strength lances and hold it couched for 30second till full stam drain, that’s if they hold it for 30secs. You not always having you lance couched in a fight so you regain stam quick.
You do no get over weight weapon debuff unless you go past the weight KGram weight , it’s not based off of strength, only stam drain is based off the weight