Melee Weapon Balance Axe/Sword/Mace

[Cruor]

I think work needs to be done on the balance between the different melee weapons.

One example is Axe vs Mace. Take a Kallardian Double Axe vs a Sledge Hammer. Use the same specs otherwise, both shorterst or longest handle, steel handle, messing head. The Axe will do more damage (56 vs 51) be lighter, and thus swing faster, AND use less mats on the head. Even vs steel plate, which has huge slashing resistance, the 2 weapons will end up doing roughly even damage, with the axe having a faster charge time and better damage vs other armors.

So we have the axe doing more damage, charging up faster (more swings per time) AND using less materials. How is this balanced? Why would you use the Sledge?

Well you say, compare the biggest mace to the biggest axe. Lets go to the Maul, same mats. Now we get a damage of 71, but we MASSIVLY increase the weight and material use. So now, The Mace is like 40% heavier and uses 40% more materials and swings MUCH more slowly to do like 27, 28% more damage? Here is the kicker though, I did messing vs messing so its apples to apples. Messing is the 2nd best material for maces (tind Messing being best) But Axes can move up to a number of better materials including steel and Tungsteel . If we use Steel in the Axe instead of Messing, we go up to 59.5 up from 56.5 (less blunt but much more slash) AND it becomes lighter.

Don't get me wrong, a messing mace will give MASSIVE 1 hits to people (I know because I have done it) but I would say in most situations the axe is superior. I think the big 2h maces need a bump on damage, or a decrease in charge up time. just a small buff to make them closer to the axe, nothing big.

Now for 2h swords, we don't have a real 2 hand sword in the game. We have more like hand and a half swords, or long swords. I would really like to see a true great sword in the game, like a big Zweihnader (sp?) that is as tall as the user from blade to hilt. The swords we have at the moment are pretty weak vs steel/heavy carap plate. This makes sense, plate SHOULD have high slash resist, but we need some bigger swords with higher slash values. Before you start, yes I'm sure your EU 20 ping friend who has been playing since Mortal 1 came out can kick my ass in a duel naked with his sword. It doesn't change the fact that 1) 1v1 duels don't represent real in game fights and 2) Swords are pretty weak right now vs most player targets. In addition, I think the pierce on sword should be increased, and for all pierce weapons weight of the user should be taken into consideration of its damage. A 135 kg guy can put more force behind a thrust than a 95 kg guy. I think an increase in damage of 10% slash and 20% to pierce for all 2h swords would be a good place to start testing. Zweihander (or whatever name) would be the new biggest sword with increased range and damage at the cost of slower speed and increased mats to make.

This is getting long so I'll end it here for now. Interested to see what other people think.

 

[PugeHenis]

No balance, mauls for blacksmit's, axes for warriors

 

[Emdash]

I think the first time I true bodied someone in MO, we were farming razors behind Bakti and he came up on some mounted build. I popped him w/ this Nyx starmace (which was pretty ok in MO1, loved the hit box) and just started beating the everliving shit out of him. There is this FEELING you get, it's similar to daggers, it has a good response to where it actually feels like you are hitting someone w/ a blunted object. All he could do was walk backwards a little then he was ded.

Star maces (tho not mounted RIP Godkin) and flanged were legit weps, I dunno if they are anymore. War hammers were cool and they got changed a lot, too. The way messing applies slash seems changed because a messing sword used to be not awful, now the slash seems way lower. TM Axe was what you wanted in late-ish game MO. Those giant head mauls, which I dunno if they are even in the game, were for luls. Obv was funny w/ dudes on horses. But they made it so there wasn't a tru viable mounted hammer (cuz wt cap), however, once you got on foot, I'd say that you could do a lot more with a star or a flanged than an axe. In MO1, heavy weps weren't really good at all (IMO again) on the ground. Flanged was meta, but I miss star a lot. The stars in MO2 seem like they are massively heavier. Also, honestly I wouldn't use steel to make a pole.

Honestly, given the amount of weps that are in MO2, I've only seen people use a few types. Mo1 had non meta but OK like Katana, star mace, war hammer. IN THEORY war hammer should be a ball buster wep based on how it stats out in MO2, but I dunno if that bears out. Actually a war hammer on a mount might be pretty legit. - thinks - It might actually be a wep that'll work if it has a good swing arc.

But yea, slash dmg is calc'd different than blunt and anyone who says different, I DON'T BELIEVE THEM UNTIL I SEE PROOF. More slash is always better and that's why war hammer is KINDA WEIRD now. MO balance team has yet to get the "wt/swingspeed/dmg" of a lot of weps to a balanced level.

Ideally, there should be a working version of each weapon, raw outclassing a weapon in its own 'bracket' is just wild.

As for hammers to axes, I dunno what to say, but you're right in that they should hit harder v steel. But there's not really a light good axe (right?) so that's one bonus of hammers, assuming that the light hammers are not dogshit.

 

[Lumos]

(tho not mounted RIP Godkin)

Little offtopic here but I played a lot with Godkin, he didn't die did he?

 

[Emdash]

Nahh, I don't think so, but that star mace on mounted hue hue. Was funny but the amount of distance you could cover parrying that dude and make it back to town was hilarious, and I wasn't the only person I know who experienced it. That spam message tho. All MO dudes are hilarious to me. He's like THE HUNTZMAN but way less effective, with a cooler shtick.

I just meant RIP as in... it was so bad. It wasn't just like non meta flavor, but it was just like... this dude can't kill lite armored people minutes away from town.

 

[Denarus]

I think work needs to be done on the balance between the different melee weapons.

A 135 kg guy can put more force behind a thrust than a 95 kg guy.

While I agree that there should be a wider assortment of weapons in general, not just for swords. The weight thing and damage is already in the game, its called damage bonus ... its in your stats

 

[Xronim]

The entire weapon balance is a huge mess rn, with hammers being the elephant in the room for it.

The sledgehammers for both 1h and 2h do less damage than the maces (yes I know its pure blunt vs blunt and slash) but when most armors tend to have really even numbers (reptile carapace + guardfur) theres almost no incentive for having weapon parts with very low damage for their weight. I had my toon specced for hammers and the sledgehammer is noticably slower than the warclub for 2 more damage. The maces in 1h were alright but the damage doesnt matter compared to most spears and swords with the exception of fighting people in tung + ironsilk. 2h flanged felt like a weaker 2h battle axe with worse handle options since they are shorter than the axes.

The 2h regular greataxe is much slower and heavier than the 2h heavy greatblade, but only does 4 more blunt damage and the same slashing damage, not worth it at all and is a waste of mats for a 2h axe in general.

 

[[CTX] Contractor]

Are people just reading the numbers on their weapons or are they actually going out and testing this?

People comparing axes to swords having somewhat the same stats is pointless.

Let me hit you with a greataxe and you hit me with a heavy greatblade, my axe will always hit harder then your sword. Promise.

Also, saying it's not worth it and is a waste of materials? I believe you should refrain from spreading misinformation.

I don't disagree that certain weapon heads could be better, or that one handed weapons could improve from being buffed by utilizing less stamina but having additional speed as well. But axes aren't at all bad and are definitely one of those weapons that can make or break a fight.

 

[Xronim]

im not saying all 2h axes, just the lightest one aka great axe is not worth it over the other parts which dont use much more materials and perform far better like the single kallard axe or battle axe.

and btw, i tested weapon damage with my toon on both armored and nude targets when the xp rate was 100 times faster.

 

[[CTX] Contractor]

I don't disagree that certain weapon heads could be better, or that one handed weapons could improve from being buffed by utilizing less stamina but having additional speed as well. But axes aren't at all bad and are definitely one of those weapons that can make or break a fight.

 

[LordMega]

im not saying all 2h axes, just the lightest one aka great axe is not worth it over the other parts which dont use much more materials and perform far better like the single kallard axe or battle axe.

and btw, i tested weapon damage with my toon on both armored and nude targets when the xp rate was 100 times faster.

For axes, you combine the blunt and slashing damage to get the actual damage. This is why heavier axes do more; they have more blunt damage.