MA's need to get buffed again

[Lufan]

I tried going full MA as oghmir with ecu on 20 since the last patch
And I'm healing my horse 2hp per skill cast..
Figured its not worth being MA these days because we are no longer effective going 1v1 against an MM (with all that wobble and them being able to heal), and with that knockdown from horse and not having points to put on Balance we're probably not going to be effective vs MC's aswell (not to mention we dont have the ability to get points on veterinary even if we want to)

So yeah.. sadly I, and many other MA's these days came to conclusion that MA's are just a pve class and its not effective in battle, once we drop off the horse we cant really fight because our skills way too compromised towards better aiming, and if we do take the points off the aiming then we're not really effective being good at what we do

We cant really do anything besides killing horses too (we can barely even do that now lol)

So yeah, I figured I'd drop about 70% of my MA class and go footfighter sadly, hopefully this will change and get more balanced and that MA's will get to see better days because right now it's just not worth it, used to be my favorite class I didnt change my build since official launch but now I feel like I have to give up on it and use MA only for pve stuff.

Edit: matterfact Im just going drop MA completely, its not for oghmirs anymore.

You want a solution?
Improve the defenses of the medium/heavy horse armor and make the ability to use medium/heavy horse armor a primary skill
Let us put all the points into horse armor, balance & full archery instead of going foot fighter incase our mount goes down, make the arrows do bit more dmg too or some (in that case we'd have to give up COMPLETELY even blocking, endurance, aggressive/defensive stance and our melee weapon with no veterinary and no balance in order to max the build up - max aiming technique, controlled aiming, marksmanship)

Then you may nerf the wobble as bad as you like, letting those who want to be pure MA's give up all their skills in dedication to the class and not being just a hybrid with a bit of everything, let other classes feel how they want to spread their skillpoints the way we do.

The result of that change will be:

1. MC's wont be able to do archery without mastering their class
   
   
2. Footfighters will have harder decision if to put points in archery aswell
   
   
3. Footarchers will be able to be an actual class in this game
   
   
4. Mages will have to put more points on horse armor, their point is to be evasive anyway tho and they can heal their horse while we cant/wont be really able to do that.

 

[Lufan]

Updated

 

[Kaemik]

The counter to MC as MA is don't let them touch you. It really is about that simple. MC will wreck anyone who lets them get hits and are hard countered by literally anyone playing any role (foot or mounted) that puts minimal effort into avoiding them. Consider the position you are each left in if you both ride in a straight line until your stam is gone. The MC has terrible damage if they aren't moving 4 speed, the MA can just turn around and delete their now slowly moving horse no issue. It's even worse in group fights as your allies can range them down while they chase you doing nothing.

That being said, yes, MA was never overpowered. Infact all archery roles are underpowered. They get too much value for a small investment but way too little value for a high point investment. I'm all for buffing MAs that actually invest in their role.

But as I keep saying the issue with all mounted roles is map movement. You invest in mounted combat roles because controlled riding is a near essential skill for any non-alt build and if you dismount to fight your mount is as good as dead. This is making incredibly underpowered builds be used WAY more than their actual combat power justifies.

Mounted combat will never be balanced in this game until there are mounts that can carry passengers and keep up with horses to act as troop transports. It's literally the most important change that could possibly be made in the game right now as it's the only thing that would make foot-only builds viable as mains even though man for man they're the most powerful builds in the game no contest right now.

 

[Lufan]

The counter to MC as MA is don't let them touch you. It really is about that simple. MC will wreck anyone who lets them get hits and are hard countered by literally anyone playing any role (foot or mounted) that puts minimal effort into avoiding them. Consider the position you are each left in if you both ride in a straight line until your stam is gone. The MC has terrible damage if they aren't moving 4 speed, the MA can just turn around and delete their now slowly moving horse no issue. It's even worse in group fights as your allies can range them down while they chase you doing nothing.

That being said, yes, MA was never overpowered. Infact all archery roles are underpowered. They get too much value for a small investment but way too little value for a high point investment. I'm all for buffing MAs that actually invest in their role.

But as I keep saying the issue with all mounted roles is map movement. You invest in mounted combat roles because controlled riding is a near essential skill for any non-alt build and if you dismount to fight your mount is as good as dead. This is making incredibly underpowered builds be used WAY more than their actual combat power justifies.

Mounted combat will never be balanced in this game until there are mounts that can carry passengers and keep up with horses to act as troop transports. It's literally the most important change that could possibly be made in the game right now as it's the only thing that would make foot-only builds viable as mains even though man for man they're the most powerful builds in the game no contest right now.

The way I checked the skills it includes no Balance as investing points in the skill, I agree you should keep your eyes out from MC's and if they do hit you, you're off the horse.
But I did try throwing my entire MA build and going MC instead, I can go full MC with Lance and still have archery on AND balance, and if I drop off the horse I'm a pretty good foot fighter too.

With this suggestion it wouldn't be an option to be able to have archery aswell without giving some important foot-fighter skill as an MC, because MC's would rather put these points on the heavy horse armor.

 

[Kaemik]

Absolutely yes. That is one of the big issues. 100 archery + nothing gives a ton of value. 100 archery + 100 MA + nothing is the mounted equivalent. I've been saying for awhile that build should be doing like 75% of what it currently does.

But Longbows, Assyms, and Shortbows should all have their own primary that has you doing 125% of what you currently do with just archery. Marksman should give a lesser weakspot bonus to the torso, slow debuff to legs, and damage debuff to arms. Most good archers aim center mass so a skill for headshots only is crap. Controlled aiming can stay as is. Breathing Technique should cease to exist to make room for the specific bow skills because holding your breath is a terrible mechanic when competent archers release their shot the moment it's charged.

That would mean you would need about 150 point investment to be as good as 100 point archer is now, and a 400 point full dive (500 for MA) would be FAR more rewarding than it is now.

I'd also give MA secondary underneath it that allows 180 degrees both directions in the saddle. This means if an MC is chasing an MA with a 200 point archery build the MA can be firing back with all 500 points of bonuses. It's also just something real MAs can actually do:

 

[Kaemik]

I'd also add for anyone arguing they want more "skilled" gameplay a MA build that has can rotate 180 degrees to the left or right, and has various effects based on where they shoot the opponent, and is firing a weapon with arc/travel-time/wobble would be the highest skillcap build that has ever existed in any version of Mortal Online.

Mounted movement is WAY harder to master than foot movement and to combine that with the difficulty of hitting targets accurately insanely high skillcap build.

"MAs are just for killing horses and that takes no skill" <- Only because the current version of MAs are crap.

 

[Emdash]

fuh, I deleted my 2k post thread and now I don't have 2k posts anymore. I just wanna say something about some of these messages. lool. Reading forums will always make me wanna say something, so I don't usually do it. Also gonna send a super secret PM, but that's a different story. This forum is trash. More people need to post so I can STOP.

Mounted movement is in no way harder to master than foot. That's nonsense; it IS a different game though. Mounted is something a lot of people don't understand, but a lot of people don't understand foot movement, either, because they don't really have to do it. 95% of the playerbase is content to just faceup and fight. Foot movement is climbing (bunny hopping in battle is an exploit as far as I'm concerned,) jumping, running along ledges, getting inside, getting outside, walking/running down mountains, forcing 0s and handles, etc etc. Strafing and jumping essentially negate any possibility that mounted movement could be harder.

Mounted movement is very high skill as well THO. Including, as well, climbing, sliding down cliffs sideways (lool,) kiting OUT as a MA, which most people don't do? Landing a hit as a MC is flawed because horse weight doesn't impact top speed (among other things,) so you can't catch people, doing stuff proper like stopping, turning, hitting people again as MC is harder than people think. Navigating terrain while fighting w/ bows is also. Some of the good MO1 MCs were doing some wild stuff.

I saw people in another thread say MM needs a counter, and maybe if they remove tower shields that'll be enough ( would like the 2x reverted, tho) I'd def take my chances vs a MM and "I'm bad," remember. Re: dismount. I dismounted my friend (nobody is running balance afaik? If they are, good on em) with a 26 arm hit with an emalji sledge. Can pop all day w/ flake sledge, mounted even. Dismount isn't like it used to be tho, obv.

If they get rid of the cheeseball crosshair and fake arrow arc, then yea, fix MA. MA (crosshair) and MM are the only thing where you are just moving a pointer to a spot. That you have to 'lead' with MA doesn't mean much IMO.

Then there needs to be some advantage to winning a mounted engagement other than leaving someone without a horse. Hiding your horse is a trash mechanic, and if you don't, you just lose your horse anyway, so what was the point of winning? People might mercy your horse and try to shoot you while you dismount if you let them. That's about the extent of epic skillz MA play.

Mounted is great. I've never played a game with mounted combat like this. It's fast, it works, but it has fucked up mechanics. They could easily be fixed. Sorry people are mad at getting dunked by MCs in MO1. I think we all were haha. That's a DISTANT MEMORY though.

As I've said before, if you're not riding around on a troll level horse, someone's loot has to outvalue your horse to even consider fighting them, logically, and then if they have stacks on them, you can't do anything + even if you do get the stacks and still have a horse, you can't bag them haha.

Wobble is a joke even at full spec. It's somewhat of a joke at 0 spec if you are shooting horses. It becomes an issue without full MA. No more 505050s.

Mounted is good enough to punish people, but to actually take loot off someone requires more. Should you be able to kill someone on the ground with a MA? I don't know. Maybe? I also think they should make controlled aiming chill out the disgusting wobble you get when running full sprint. If they did that, you could run and jump and shoot and foot archery might be somewhat interesting.

Lastly, keep MA to where you can only shoot to one side. That's balance. That's the chance MC has, or an outplay chance (underused?) in MA movement, reversing someone. But yea... make slow 2nd/stam drain 2nd horses with fast 3rd like MO1. Put MM back on 2x and revert their concentration, remove tower shields from mounts. TRY THAT. As it is, tho, the game is OK mounted. I feel good... I'm just gonna leave you there with your horse's lootbag cuz I ain't got time to waste trying to hide my horse and then find you/fight you... and prol die haha.

 

[Kaemik]

Ok so yes if you are a parkour fighter in a town like GK or Kranesh the skill cap is probably higher than mounted. But in the majority of the map mounted builds have a much higher skillcap. And I'm not talking faceroll, I know there is a lot more to being a footy than that. But the most complex maneuver you can execute on foot (excluding earlier mentioned parkour) are generally simple to master once you know the trick.

That's because on foot generally you are aiming where you are moving, while for MA and MM the aim direction and movement direction are frequently very different, making it take a lot more skill to aim and move at the same time. Especially when mounts get hung up on terrain features very easily and can kill their mount in rough terrain very easily. A slow moving or stationary mount is also an easy kill to enemy archers so in good mounted gameplay you are basically always moving if you haven't broken LOS to stam up. And speaking of stam, stam management is a MUCH bigger deal in mounted gameplay. And I know it's a big deal for footies too but it's 10 times easier to end up stammed in a mounted fight.

 

[Lufan]

Mounted is good enough to punish people, but to actually take loot off someone requires more. Should you be able to kill someone on the ground with a MA? I don't know. Maybe? I also think they should make controlled aiming chill out the disgusting wobble you get when running full sprint. If they did that, you could run and jump and shoot and foot archery might be somewhat interesting.

Lastly, keep MA to where you can only shoot to one side. That's balance. That's the chance MC has, or an outplay chance (underused?) in MA movement, reversing someone. But yea... make slow 2nd/stam drain 2nd horses with fast 3rd like MO1. Put MM back on 2x and revert their concentration, remove tower shields from mounts. TRY THAT. As it is, tho, the game is OK mounted. I feel good... I'm just gonna leave you there with your horse's lootbag cuz I ain't got time to waste trying to hide my horse and then find you/fight you... and prol die haha.

I still believe MA's need this more horse defense buff and to be able to ride away and fix their horse up while being away, it'd also mean a good chance for MC's to come by
The reasoning for that is that I want to play an MA build /without/ having to use any sort of magic playing that build and right now its near impossible.

I also agree with MA's not having to get off their horse if they kill the player's horse by doing some melee battle, we should be able to do that by staying on the mount and doing proper damage and not just being able to kill horses cause that's what we're "supposed to do".

I'm also up for making the wobble harder if you dont have archery fully maxed, that way we'd finally have proper footarchers ig aswell - have to get that prepared for when TC comes out and it can't be just a normal footfighter

That's why it should change.

Edit: This extra damage boost can be done by having marksmanship (depending on your dex) - that way we'd also be able to counter these MA/MM builds, making it somewhat more balanced aswell. -> MA/MM's will be able to heal their horses on the spot but have lower turns and less arrow dmg but still get magic while pure MA's will have have faster turns, heal on far away places and increased damage.
(extra dmg buff would be given from certain amount of dex on the character and not by "the more dex the more damage" to avoid alvarins being overpowered)

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

Absolutely yes. That is one of the big issues. 100 archery + nothing gives a ton of value. 100 archery + 100 MA + nothing is the mounted equivalent. I've been saying for awhile that build should be doing like 75% of what it currently does.

But Longbows, Assyms, and Shortbows should all have their own primary that has you doing 125% of what you currently do with just archery. Marksman should give a lesser weakspot bonus to the torso, slow debuff to legs, and damage debuff to arms. Most good archers aim center mass so a skill for headshots only is crap. Controlled aiming can stay as is. Breathing Technique should cease to exist to make room for the specific bow skills because holding your breath is a terrible mechanic when competent archers release their shot the moment it's charged.

That would mean you would need about 150 point investment to be as good as 100 point archer is now, and a 400 point full dive (500 for MA) would be FAR more rewarding than it is now.

I'd also give MA secondary underneath it that allows 180 degrees both directions in the saddle. This means if an MC is chasing an MA with a 200 point archery build the MA can be firing back with all 500 points of bonuses. It's also just something real MAs can actually do:

You would only be able to shoot 360 on a horse if you are Ambidextrous.
Then you would also need 2 different bows, left and right handed. Your dominate eye and hand also play a huge part in controlling the bow IRL.
Ik this is a game and yeah cool add it in, for point investment.
But in this pic you can clearly see hes still shooting from his left side. Just doing some trick shot for the photo.

As for the balance of MA in game. I believe it will be the most OP build in the game once all the mechanics are in. There will be horse trample so you knock people over with your horse and get free damage/headshots. There will be fire, exploding, and poison arrows. (Depending on how many Potion units you can put on one arrow will make it OP or balanced.) Once fletchery is out you might be able to have actual Steel, Cronite, and Oghmium arrows. So I think it will be strong in the future but currently it is just a horse killer.

 

[Lufan]

You would only be able to shoot 360 on a horse if you are Ambidextrous.
Then you would also need 2 different bows, left and right handed. Your dominate eye and hand also play a huge part in controlling the bow IRL.
Ik this is a game and yeah cool add it in, for point investment.
But in this pic you can clearly see hes still shooting from his left side. Just doing some trick shot for the photo.

As for the balance of MA in game. I believe it will be the most OP build in the game once all the mechanics are in. There will be horse trample so you knock people over with your horse and get free damage/headshots. There will be fire, exploding, and poison arrows. (Depending on how many Potion units you can put on one arrow will make it OP or balanced.) Once fletchery is out you might be able to have actual Steel, Cronite, and Oghmium arrows. So I think it will be strong in the future but currently it is just a horse killer.

Not really man, Henrik never talked about arrow crafting its just a myth
Plus we need that balance before TC comes not after it, and on the current stage its not balanced /at all/