Make horses stronger

Lufan

Member
Sep 21, 2021
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What do you guys think about giving horses a slight/mid buff? I think horses in battle should have more hp overall, currently posted a suggestion of making player's armor type affect to horse' speed aswell so I am not completely sure about that too, what are your opinions regarding that in overall, I'd like to hear other opinions with attempting to balance things and maybe keep it realistic so we'll get a great game experience overall.
 
Jan 23, 2021
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And Mounted Melee < Mounted Casting < Mounted Archery

Mounted combat has always been tough to balance in games, same for calculating fall damage for horses. For MO2 what is needed is effected melee combat weapons against mounts, such as pikes. LiF never got that balance right, but then to be fair, there's a long list of things that game never got right... :(

Do we really have enough data for mounted combat though? Especially since horse stats are still not fully in? Would be interesting to see what better protection higher material/quality horse armor would add, since its already clear that Light > Medium > Heavy when it comes to overall speed. Would the differences in weight and protection apply when worn by mounts? I would think it would.
 
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Jatix

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2020
882
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Absolutely not. With horse armor now mounted is on par with MO1. Which was OP. Theres not really any reason to go around on anything other than a mounted character. If you run into foot you cant kill you can run effortlessly at any point. If foot cant kill you they die, because they cant run away unless they are 2 feet from town.
 

EZgold

Active member
Jan 28, 2021
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The mounts that we have right now are indeed made of cardboard. But I see them just as the poor man's disposable ride. Hopefully the bullhorse will come with some serious health. And you know the molva will be beefy no matter what. Also the bears...


Mounted is OP you already cant die to foot peasents.
All foot peasants should carry a shortbow. It does good enough damage even with no primary skills. Especially to the paper horses.
 

Jackdstripper

Well-known member
Jan 8, 2021
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Hopefully the bullhorse will come with some serious health. And you know the molva will be beefy no

yes but remember that bull horses were not the fastest nor had the most stamina, and mulvas were slow as hell with very little stamina.

my point is that there should always be a trade off. Speed for hp, or hp for stam, etc. There should never be one type of horse that has it all. That is what broke mounted in MO1 when breeding was introduced.
 

Balvrikk

Active member
Jun 30, 2020
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For combat? Simple answer no, and I'm a footy. Horses can be killed fairly easily yes(without armor) but it's very easy to move out of range of the archer. Long bows do 80s maybe 90s to a naked horse but 40-50s to armored horses. Lvl125 horse has what 315hp jotuns 400. Thats 4 to 8 full charged head shits to kill a horse.
 

Kameyo

Member
Aug 14, 2020
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Make EQ dismount, slow horses when they go uphill no more mountain goats, add dismount animations, remove rider healing his mount while riding. Make dex have an effect on riding speed and agility. Add MA aim wobble. Then we can consider horse HP.
 

bbihah

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2020
1,111
951
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I personally think surface that the horse is travelling on should influence both the uphill and downhill performance of a horse as well as "stability" of the horse.

Riding up or down hill on grass/dirt? Minimal impact on maximum steepness traversable, minimal impact on speed and stamina. Full stability.
Riding up or down hill on mud? medium impact on maximum steepness, heavy impact on speed and stamina. Full stability
Riding up or down hill on "gravel"? BIg impact on max steepness, heavy impact on speed and stamina. Lowest stability.
Riding up or down hill on rock? Big impact on max steepness, low impact on speed and no impact on stamina. low stability.

Riding on flat ground the impact on stamina and speed should still be a thing as well as stability but to a lesser extent.

Riding a horse on uneven terrain like rocks/mountain/gravel should create a massive issue with stability even on flat ground. Stability would impact your ability let go of the horse reins. This meaning the lower stability levels would limit you to be unable to use anything except one handed light weapons(not lances) or to even swing at all. Medium stability levels would make it impossible to swing or couch a lance but also the ability to draw a bow as you need both hands for that, this goes for casting spells as well, one handed spells would be fine though but we dont have any schools for that in game at the moment. High stability levels would just be your typical hill or flat ground "good" surfaces.

Effectively what i'm saying, encourage a mounted player to fight and travel where you have to play to your strengths, giving people on foot sort of "safe" areas against mounted fighters, archers and mages where they would want to try to bring fights. How would a mounted fighter for example fight someone on foot when he starts going up a mountain, or onto lose rocky ground hilly terrain? You either risk it with the extremely limited capability that you could bring there on the horse or you dismount and go on foot. Its also entirely possible to do the completely viable third option, don't pick fights that are to your disadvantage. You are in the same seat the footfighter are when he sees you moving away from the rocky terrain. Should he chase after you into "dangerous" territory and have to fight a mounted fighter in the open? Most likely the person on foot will call himself lucky that he managed to get away and leave the area away from the mounted fighter.


This brings aspects when it comes to travel too, sometimes it might be good to travel on foot due to mountains, snow, gravel, rocks. But most of the time travel is best done on horseback.

With "gravel", I don't mean a path that has gravel on it, but rather natural locations in the world that has rocky ground that has been ground into pebbles. usually underneath and near rocky mountains, close to water, near rocks that someone(not necessarily players, since the surfaces kind of have to be static for gameplay consistency reasons probably) have broken down.



I just think there should be more to horses than them being a scooter that you hop on and only have to worry about its health and stamina and that can travel pretty much just like someone on foot, except faster and with a one-sided damage bonus.

There simply should just be areas that a mounted person will try to want to fight in and there should be areas where they would not want to fight in. So in an engagement there are more than just X vs Y and more X vs Y with Z, Ä. Å, Ö other variables that you have to consider.
 

MolagAmur

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2020
798
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A buff? So you want to buff the thing that allows the highest mobility in the game with even more HP? It also allows the highest damage potential with a melee weapon. It also allows fat mages to do their huge damage without the negatives of movement speed. It allows you to pick and choose your fights. You're allowed to heal the mount while riding on its back.

Can you please explain to me how you think mounts need a buff? Are you comparing them to MO1 mounts?


If it dies fairly quickly from strong focus fire from the enemy and you're sitting there with low dex and no movement skills....remember that YOU are the one who built your character around the mount.
 

Darthus

Well-known member
Dec 1, 2020
280
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What do you guys think about giving horses a slight/mid buff? I think horses in battle should have more hp overall, currently posted a suggestion of making player's armor type affect to horse' speed aswell so I am not completely sure about that too, what are your opinions regarding that in overall, I'd like to hear other opinions with attempting to balance things and maybe keep it realistic so we'll get a great game experience overall.

I wonder if this feedback is more about horses bare as you find them, rather than with horse armor.

Heavy horse armor and a horse with 230+ hitpoints as I have right now, most animals barely touch them and they're tougher than I am.
 

Lufan

Member
Sep 21, 2021
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23
8
A buff? So you want to buff the thing that allows the highest mobility in the game with even more HP?
Can you please explain to me how you think mounts need a buff? Are you comparing them to MO1 mounts?

What I wanted to do is actually hear your opinions regarding the matter thats the reason its at general discussion and not suggestions.

Personally, I play as pure MA atm and getting into a situation where my horse dies in the middle of the battlefield is going to be very unpleasant.
(Even as pure MA the archery build isnt fully finished - not to mention skills in other weapons)

Not trying to compare to MO1 but instead try to see the whole picture of how they're like in MO2
 

MolagAmur

Well-known member
Jul 15, 2020
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What I wanted to do is actually hear your opinions regarding the matter thats the reason its at general discussion and not suggestions.

Personally, I play as pure MA atm and getting into a situation where my horse dies in the middle of the battlefield is going to be very unpleasant.
(Even as pure MA the archery build isnt fully finished - not to mention skills in other weapons)

Not trying to compare to MO1 but instead try to see the whole picture of how they're like in MO2
Well you choose to play pure MA. You're potentially giving up ground skills to make yourself stronger on mount. That is your build choice, and while it will suck when you get dismounted, you can't ask for a buff to mounts to make up for the cons in your build. You can be a fully viable foot fighter or mage who also makes use of combat on mount. You just choose not to. And again, that's fine and its your choice.

My reply wasn't only directed toward you by the way, there are lots who speak about wanting buffs to mounts.

The main issue with mounts is the lack of dismount options.
 

Lufan

Member
Sep 21, 2021
49
23
8
Well you choose to play pure MA. You're potentially giving up ground skills to make yourself stronger on mount. That is your build choice, and while it will suck when you get dismounted, you can't ask for a buff to mounts to make up for the cons in your build. You can be a fully viable foot fighter or mage who also makes use of combat on mount. You just choose not to. And again, that's fine and its your choice.

My reply wasn't only directed toward you by the way, there are lots who speak about wanting buffs to mounts.

The main issue with mounts is the lack of dismount options.
All good, that's the reason I wanted to hear about your opinion regarding that matter
 
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Deleted member 44

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I would like a larger stamina pool, more HP and better horse armor. You can still melt a horse with magic or a few shots with a good long bow. Someone said in here that foot can't defeat mounted. That's just straight wrong. Any good foot group will delete a good mounted group.
 
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bbihah

Well-known member
Jul 10, 2020
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I would like a larger stamina pool, more HP and better horse armor. You can still melt a horse with magic or a few shots with a good long bow. Someone said in here that foot can't defeat mounted. That's just straight wrong. Any good foot group will delete a good mounted group.
Correction, any good foot group will watch a good mounted group run away with all your buddies loot while you stand there complaining that they aren't coming back to fight you.
 
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Tzone

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May 16, 2021
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I got to agree with shmerrick on horse armor. Steel is not much better then molarium it feels like.
You shoot a foot fighter with steel and they take like 16 damage, your horse takes 30 from a arrow.
IDK or am saying at thins moment if it should get a buff but it is a let down.
 

Woody

Well-known member
Apr 4, 2021
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I got to agree with shmerrick on horse armor. Steel is not much better then molarium it feels like.
You shoot a foot fighter with steel and they take like 16 damage, your horse takes 30 from a arrow.
IDK or am saying at thins moment if it should get a buff but it is a let down.

It's an additional 10% piercing and 15% slash protection but the design philosophy is no different to player armor. It's intentionally, by design, supposed to have minimal difference between armor tiers. This inherently puts heavier value on player skill, not gear quality. The only way they buff horse armor further is to increase the penalty on speed, turn and stam further - which I think needs to happen irrespective of buffing horse durability. Currently there's no point in taking anything but heavy horse armor.