Lack of offline protection will cost the game

Handsome Young Man

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There are other ways to deter ninja singing anyway.

The biggest issue was the fact assets are relatively easy to blow up with no one around, because they generally didn't have a lot of HP.
 

Smough

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Maybe there should be a siege camp that needs to be constructed first that will alert people. Timed siege windows are def not a good idea imo.
 

MolagAmur

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Its no secret that the Sieging System in MO was one of the worst. I'm not sure why people support the current "hey if you're offline or at work and your stuff gets sieged then IDK sucks for you". Its just such a dumb argument. There are countless ways to make the siege mechanics in this game FAR better. Shit they could even steal the Darkfall way and I'd be happy.

With it being a megaserver and a bunch of different time zones...why do people want to be able to attack things that other people can't defend? Shit you had RPK purposefully sieging on Christmas Day lmao. There is nobody to defend it.

As someone else said...most times the siege was initiated for the purpose of just getting some fights. Ninja sieging is just not fun for anyone and is unrealistic for you people like like your semi-realism. Allowing people to prepare and be online would create for more fun for everyone.


Lastly, this is coming from someone who doesn't care much for assets. We usually preferred to play without them bc they are just a liability for the reasons stated above. I do know that a lot of people/guilds quit the game when putting in months of work and waking up the next morning to it all being gone.
 
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AnabolicRage

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Its no secret that the Sieging System in MO was one of the worst. I'm not sure why people support the current "hey if you're offline or at work and your stuff gets sieged then IDK sucks for you". Its just such a dumb argument. There are countless ways to make the siege mechanics in this game FAR better. Shit they could even steal the Darkfall way and I'd be happy.

With it being a megaserver and a bunch of different time zones...why do people want to be able to attack things that other people can't defend? Shit you had RPK purposefully sieging on Christmas Day lmao. There is nobody to defend it.

As someone else said...most times the siege was initiated for the purpose of just getting some fights. Ninja sieging is just not fun for anyone and is unrealistic for you people like like your semi-realism. Allowing people to prepare and be online would create for more fun for everyone.


Lastly, this is coming from someone who doesn't care much for assets. We usually preferred to play without them bc they are just a liability for the reasons stated above. I do know that a lot of people/guilds quit the game when putting in months of work and waking up the next morning to it all being gone.
I do agree that ninja sieging is a b**** move. Only problem is how do you coordinate times between guilds that are mainly EU or NA since all play on one server? Where as in darkfall you had NA and EU servers.
 

Rorry

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Ninja siegeing wasn't really a guild siegeing in their own timezone rather than in the one of their target. It was a guild attacking at server up or etc and not in either of their usual play timezones.
 

Vagrant

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Ninja siegeing wasn't really a guild siegeing in their own timezone rather than in the one of their target. It was a guild attacking at server up or etc and not in either of their usual play timezones.

yep, the old server reboot time is Aussie prime time, one players ninja is another players prime in a single server game.
 

MolagAmur

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I do agree that ninja sieging is a b**** move. Only problem is how do you coordinate times between guilds that are mainly EU or NA since all play on one server? Where as in darkfall you had NA and EU servers.
I could quickly come up with numerous ideas and they could be refined for MO.

First one would be similar to the game Stay Out. Basically certain zones on the map would have siege timer windows. So you would want to choose to live in part of the map that was suitable for your guild to live in to defend your assets if needed. If you have a guild with EU and NA players or your guild doesn't have jobs or whatever...you could just live where you wanted. OR if you had alliances with EU/NA people you'd be fine if you wanted.

Second could be to still do what Darkfall did...but tweak it a bit to make it work better for one megaserver.

Third would be to allow defenders to select a time window in which they defend. So basically a guild would lay claim on a keep and the defenders would get a notification. Within 24 hours of the claim they would have to select a defense window. This could be totally up to the guild or the game could randomly give 2-3 options (example 8am-12pm, 1pm-5pm, 6pm-12am). They would choose it and send it back to the attacking guild and the attacking guild would choose the specific hour in that window to attack. If a guild is wanting it bad enough, they will make it work to where they can all be on. This system would only work for keeps and houses and other assets would stay as they currently are. (Keep in mind I came up with this in 2 minutes so its going to have flaws and can be made better). Its basically just proof that it can't be that hard.

Fourth we could keep it how it is and continue the ninja siege and attacking when you know nobody else in on and get free gibs and no fight and a bunch of salty people.

Keep in mind im totally unbiased on this subject. I'd be fine with owning a keep and I'd be fine with not and just ninja sieging stuff. But I want what is better for the health of the game. It was pretty annoying for 2 guys to siege your assets of a 10 man guild while you're asleep or working.
 
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MolagAmur

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Another option is for SV to pre-place the TC towers this time rather than us build them. Then the attacking guild would have to capture all the towers leading up to the keep in order to make it vulnerable. So basically once the first tower is captured by the attacking guild, there would be a 2 hour cooldown before you could capture the next one. Once you get down to the last tower there would be 4 hours until the keep becomes vulnerable. This would allow the padding needed for keep owners to realize they need to prepare themselves for a siege. If the defenders are able to recapture the towers before the final one...then the keep wouldn't become vulnerable.

Perhaps even combine this with the Third option I posted. So once the keep became vulnerable...then the attacking guild would state their time frame in which they are going to attack. Basically this would make it so sieges on keeps would be more of a big deal and not just done in one sitting. They would have to be well planned out. Obviously the numbers and times will need to be tweaked. This is just a very rough idea. Perhaps its all a very bad idea I'm not sure. Just trying to help give ideas...which people don't seem to do.


Also I think the idea of AI Guards defending your assets is dogshit and have from the beginning. The AI will never be good enough or too good.

MOsiege.png
 
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Bicorps

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I see a lot of comment here of people... that have probably never get into a siege on MO. I been part in a total of 15 Keep siege and we destroyed 14 of them.

Your lack of knowledge about the subject is so low that you should not even comment here. How can you talk about sieging mechanic when you never been part of it. how dare you.

In the first place if you cant defend your asset you should not own one. Its a Player vs Player game put that in your little bean brain. Even over night, its an international game server what do you expect?


At the end of MO1 people had so much knowledge about TC Guards that it was almost impossible to siege a keep that been well build with a minimum of player defending it. It ended with guild popping TC Guards against TC Guards in a siege resulting into a AI vs AI siege which is totally outrageous in a PvP game. Oh and if you are the player in that AI Mess the only thing you do is Guard call(press 1 button) or get pop 1 shot by multiple guard.

Who ever know about Aralis patch also know it was a terrible idee and made sieging even more impossible. I been part of the ID siege and the tactic that been use in that siege from RPK was almost perfect. ID had simply no chance and that it, they failed at diplomatic , they failed at PvP, They failed at grouping there alliance to defend the keep. They just failed and StarVault had to make a "Balance" Patch which made the game even more cancer.

Sieging someone cost a lot of time, logistic and patience. You also need to be good at PvP so you can stand your ground, and that a question I saw in previous thread from a newb "Why people are mostly on foot on that video?" Well because Foot PvP is the most fun thing in the game and you need a Foot Group to stand your ground. A foot group that stand his ground is more strong than a mounted group that charge or what ever they do the Foot Group will not be affected that much ( depend the size of the group and the skill base). I seen a lot of foot group choking out against a mounted group and get clap, Why ? Because they Choked and retreated or moved position which expose them from Mounted.



I think the unbalanced part in that TC Assets vs Sieging is that it cost too much resource and time to build. It should be more easy to build.
I didnt liked the House patch that you would loose everything in your chest and shit I mean... Its not rust. Its fine to loose your assets and territory but loosing most of your stuff that you stored in your house is kinda too much. The old banking system was working fine but the problem behind it is when starvault removed Deed Drops from Sieging. There was simply no reward anymore from sieging and people was pretty mad about it.
Another patch that Fucked up TC is when we could not sell stuff anymore in our NPC market, after there was simply no point to build anything really except for mining... specially for a red player.

So ye.... make Building easier... No walls except around keep (1 layer) and give a good reason for people to build or even rebuild. Zoned Bank like the old stuff and enable to sell your stuff on your own NPC Market. Sieging need to be relatively easy too, I think it was too much time consuming on MO1.. and very costly.

Im not 100% Against having houses with Crate and people can siege and loot but It need to be rethink and implement a better way.
 
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Kaemik

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I see a lot of comment here of people... that have probably never get into a siege on MO. I been part in a total of 15 Keep siege and we destroyed 14 of them.

Your lack of knowledge about the subject is so low that you should not even comment here. How can you talk about sieging mechanic when you never been part of it. how dare you.

Because there are dozens of other games with sieges in them so... go fuck yourself?

I'm discussing what I see as good siege mechanics based on the numerous sieges I've participated in across many titles. I wouldn't be surprised if I have more overall siege experience than you. Just saying.

You guys really need to stop pretending MO1 experience is the only relevant experience when this is a new game and there is no guarantee any of the systems will be the same. It's ridiculous.

Literally anyone whose ever had their shit blown up while offline in any game has the right to come in here and say "I don't want to see that be a thing in MO2" much less people who have participated in active sieges on both sides across numerous titles.
 
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Rorry

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Because there are dozens of other games with sieges in them so... go fuck yourself?

I'm discussing what I see as good siege mechanics based on the numerous sieges I've participated in across many titles. I wouldn't be surprised if I have more overall siege experience than you. Just saying.

You guys really need to stop pretending MO1 experience is the only relevant experience when this is a new game and there is no guarantee any of the systems will be the same. It's ridiculous.

Literally anyone whose ever had their shit blown up while offline in any game has the right to come in here and say "I don't want to see that be a thing in MO2" much less people who have participated in active sieges on both sides across numerous titles.
So far it is about 95% the same as MO1, so experience there does matter a lot.
 

Kaemik

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Right. Only insignificant things like the only two combat systems implemented so far have been completely different.
 

MolagAmur

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Well regardless....offline raiding is dumb and nobody enjoys it except the people that don't have jobs. Its not fun for either side. Nobody has good memories of doing that. If you don't have a job then good for you I suppose that you can be on MO all the time to defend your stuff. But for the majority of the population...offline raiding is gonna be BAD for the game. Many big guilds even quit MO because of it. Its demoralizing to have to be stuck a your job or asleep and come back to your stuff being gone.

Why people defend this and don't come up with a better system for everyone is insane to me...
 
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Kaemik

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I have some great memories of draining some big zerg guild's rare ore mine at server reset in the wee hours of the morning with a few friends in our early days of Darkfall because they were griefing newbs in a nearby town. So we brought 3-5 guys, slaughtered their one naked they had to do themselves and stole a few thousand gold worth of mats while they desperately screamed threats they never carried through on at us.

I'm a huge fan of things like the rare ore mine that give you reasons to go PvP at enemy holdings 24/7 (In Darkfall rare ore mines produced really good resources at a consistent rate throughout the day so hitting people's holding if they hadn't drained it in an hour or two took their resources and gave them to you, and it was always 100% full after a server reset which is why we hit them right after one)

But yeah, take or lose the holding shouldn't be something that can be determined in anything less than days. I really like the idea of a simpler version of my suggestion though in just making smaller holdings give buffs to the keeps. I'd make it so those outposts generate buffs that slowly wear off once they're lost, and begin replenish if the outpost is reclaimed. Seems like a great starting point for eventually building a better system but good enough to actually get us through the first few years of the game. Especially if they do something similar to what they've discussed with keeps and have set areas for outposts so you can't just stick one on a cliff face or something.

A keep you control all the associated outposts for is essentially invincible but the buffs drain slowly over time if they are lost, which means you need to wage a war before you can go for the keep. The shortest time to claim a keep would be if you take all their outposts, they don't respond for a day or two, and then you press the attack once their buffs are sufficiently weakened. If they can't scramble to defend their outposts then they deserve to lose their keep at that point. Otherwise, you'd have a really good back and forth of swapping outposts that draws out the engagement and leads to A LOT more fights. People hiring mercenaries to help etc.

I don't understand why anyone who actually wants PvP wouldn't be 100% onboard with such ideas. Feels like a win for everyone except people who want to take keeps without a fight.
 
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Rorry

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Right. Only insignificant things like the only two combat systems implemented so far have been completely different.
Completely different? No, they are only slightly different but with a better engine/netcode (I think is the proper term.)