Lack of offline protection will cost the game

[Wesley Snipes]

I know henrik talked about how he didn't want timed windows, and how he thinks guards will be good enough. I'm going to go on record and say the AI is potato quality and in no way will be agile enough to provide sufficient protection against off line raids. Players don't want to go to sleep one night, and wake up the next to nothing. Look how that turned out for games like Atlas/LO. I'm not sure what the solution is outside of siege windows and the like, but the lack of offline protection and the hope that clumsily put together AI is not the solution or the answer to having a long term sustainable population.

 

[Speznat]

You know what. NO!!

offline protection guards are enough.

And yes i was often very angry when we lost the keep the fuckign third time ninja, and when some ashole ninja sieged down my house twice. And yes a balance would be nice like, harder to siege, BUT!!!!

When they make something like siege timer and some off world protection, than im outta here. Than i would straight out say fuck this game. nice 11 years but just fuck you.

Im not a pvp guy, just self defence, and people that personally killed me inside cities get attacked from me on sight.
but protection in form of offworld restriction are the worst shit possible. Mortal is life
You have enough friends aliances and guilds that will help you to protect your stuff. thats also the game not some offline protection.

But restriction from the game like time windows and some other mechanics would be the worst shit ever that can happen to this game.

If you haven't get it. this game is about pure freedom. not Restriction online!, like any other shitgame.

People here can be the biggest assholes and get away with it. its called freedom. but gues what you have the freedom to to ruin thier reputation or hurt them very hard were it really hurts. And if they hate you they will siege your stuff and you will siege theres. thats normal. Thats the definition of freedom. Self Justice and Own Morals, and everyone with a own style of Playing.

Some of my guildmates even like me with full time jobs. have emergency notification on that at 4am you can quickly login to defend or siege some stuff. Fuck WOrk and FUCK real life. Yeah even i as a german say FUCK WORK. Im not good at pvp but atleast i can distract some people and block until the real fighters come. the constant tenshion and political movements makes it exciting.

It dont ment harsh as i wrote. im sry i just cant write in an other style. I have nothing against you wesley.

But you need to understand, that this game is bassed on the Ultimate Freedom of Choice and opportunity.

and if you take that away. whats left?

a boring game.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Unpopular opinion, maybe..

But people sieged for a lot of different reasons in MO1.

1.) Differing in-game politics (A-PK / PK)
2.) Controlling resources.
3.) Hate one another, revenge, etc.
4.) Power.

Sure you could get more specific, but the reason I have always found sieges occurring in the groups I've played with and against is because it was the only way to get people to fight you. It incited players to fight you, or to also take up sieges against you.

Know what was the biggest factor in causing this? Walls.

Assets that are built need to NOT be walled in, segregating the area to a specific group. People will crawl up my ass and say "but muh safety!!" The thing is, you shouldn't be building shit unless you're ready to defend it in some capacity.

Walls make the game feel dead. So that's the first problem.

The second problem, you're right AI is dog shit. AI defending your things is honestly something I'm against 100% (Not saying you are). I feel like players should fill these roles, not NPC's - This would allow the bringing-back of mercenary guilds. Let mercenary guilds build up unbiased reputations of fulfilling contracts and pay groups and guilds to defend your stuff between certain hours.

A single server allows for other time zones to fill in where you lack if your group can't do it. As boring as it might sound to some, I like the idea of playing a mercenary who patrols my clients assets. That sounds cool, and we didn't really have anything like that because of AI and walls.

The third problem is the assets in MO1 actually had pretty low HP. Especially when you had coordinated efforts. Assets need more HP, this is to counter balance the idea that there is no walls. Assets should be hearty structures that take time to destroy - but they should also equally be harder to build then previously in MO1. You can't have assets be easily built, but very hard to destroy. The time sink needs to match in gold / materials. Repairing shouldn't be possible either until a structure hasn't taken damage in X amount of time. People repairing things during a siege was stupid.

Fourth, but totally solvable problem. "my guild is a pve guild." "my guild is too small." "im a solo player." This is a sandbox game, use sandbox solutions to solve your issues. If your guild is a PvE only guild - take measures to practice at the PvP, stock up on things that will help you defend yourself from sieges - recruit players who PvP or even hire people. If your guild is too small and you keep getting sieged, maybe recruit more before building; if you can't recruit people and you keep getting sieged - maybe look inward. Sounds like you have more problems then you let on. If you're a solo player, appeal to guilds / groups that are near you. If you don't have a shit reputation, you'll probably find a guild wont mind coming to defend your house or player-built things if it's in their area. It means they get PvP, and you get free defense.

My point is.. I feel this isn't really a issue. I get ninja sieging is stupid and bad, and it is; some things DO need to change to prevent such an anti-social way of playing.. but some of these problems can also be solved by the players.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

You know what. NO!!

offline protection guards are enough.

And yes i was often very angry when we lost the keep the fuckign third time, and when some ashole sieged down my house twice. And yes a balance would be nice like, harder to siege, BUT!!!!

When they make something like siege timer and some off world protection, than im outta here. Than i would straight out say fuck this game. nice 11 years but just fuck you.

Im not a pvp guy. but protection in form of restriction are the worst shit possible. Mortal is life
You have enough friends aliances and guilds that will help you to protect your stuff. thats also the game not some offline protection.

But restriction from the game like time windows and some other machanics would be the worst shit ever that can happen to this game.

If you haven't get it. this game is about pure freedom. not Restriction online!, like any other shitgame.

People here can be the biggest assholes and get away with it. its called freedom. but gues what you have the freedom to to ruin thier reputation or hurt them very hard were it really hurts. And if they hate you they will siege your stuff and you will siege theres. thats normal. Thats the definition of freedom. Self Justice and Own Morals, and everyone with a own style of Playing.

Some of my guildmates even like me with full time jobs. have emergency notification on that at 4am you can quickly login to defend or siege some stuff. Fuck WOrk and FUCK real life. Yeah even i as a german say FUCK WORK.

if important siege happen im sick at work, and if they would find out i would say FUCK you mortal is more important than your shitty company.

It dont ment harsh as i wrote. im sry i just can write in an other style. I have nothing against you wesley.

But you need to understand, that this game is bassed on the Ultimate Freedom of Choice.

I think this is the first time, I have ever read something from you - and agree with you (To an extent.)

Man this community is weird.

 

[Speznat]

I think this is the first time, I have ever read something from you - and agree with you (To an extent.)

Man this community is weird.

People may disagree and may throw shit at each other.

But alteast many people give the people the respect and read the stuff. thx for reading my shit xD
even when i often think, Oh no not this idiot again writing some bullshit.
But i read everything always, because i maybe agree with him on that specific topic or not, even if on the other thread i could kill him for not having near the same view. It has nothing to do with the person on the other side throwing in there time to write some stuff.

thats called respect. And many people do that here. Even if many people get sometimes the impression that we throwing just shit at each other.

The Respect stops if you just disagreeing with people because you didn't like there last 5 posts and you automaticly disagree or skip them.
and without reading there stuff in each thread again, you will live in a bubble.
and without viewing it from there point of view. you will be in a bubble evne more.

the thing is. for example. i really dont like eldrath for example, because he discuss without logic or concrete reality, and i hate that.
But i read everything someone has to say, because in only understanding the other person you can make your own conclusions and only than you can discuss with them.

Even if i disagree with eldrath on the haven discussion. I still respect his opinion.

And i agree on other threads with him because in some points he is just right.

If i would be an totally idiot like the 99% of people from other communitys than i would just disagree with him just because i hate him.

and now i think, he is maybe not so stupid like i first thought. #no front eldrath i just used you as example xD could be some more poeple

And thats good about this community, From outside it seem more toxic than 4chan but in the core they are all mature people that sometimes bahve like 10year olds throwing shit and frases like "u mad bitch!" at other people because its more conviniend. than jsut explaining it.

same people often write one sentance insults but in other threats they write pages and you think wow, incredible i didn't know that hayasa can do something other than just annoy and troll. And i actually agreed on some stuff he said, i would have never thought would be possible that we came to the same conclusion. hayasa wan't ment insulting. was just an example. I actually like your sometimes funny posts when people rage here you just "u mad bro" its sometimes just perfect.

you learn more everyday xD
sry that was a little bit long.

anyway PARTY HARD!

 

[Rudakov]

I know henrik talked about how he didn't want timed windows, and how he thinks guards will be good enough. I'm going to go on record and say the AI is potato quality and in no way will be agile enough to provide sufficient protection against off line raids. Players don't want to go to sleep one night, and wake up the next to nothing. Look how that turned out for games like Atlas/LO. I'm not sure what the solution is outside of siege windows and the like, but the lack of offline protection and the hope that clumsily put together AI is not the solution or the answer to having a long term sustainable population.

Can’t say better then this

 

[Vagrant]

I think this is the first time, I have ever read something from you - and agree with you (To an extent.)

Man this community is weird.

Lol.

you and @Speznat both say it all, not much I can add except to agree, the 'sand-box' experience diminishes with every new walled off resource or additional 'helper' NPC/AI introduced in to the game.

 

[Handsome Young Man]

Lol.

you and @Speznat both say it all, not much I can add except to agree, the 'sand-box' experience diminishes with every new walled off resource or additional 'helper' NPC/AI introduced in to the game.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

 

[Teknique]

I know henrik talked about how he didn't want timed windows, and how he thinks guards will be good enough. I'm going to go on record and say the AI is potato quality and in no way will be agile enough to provide sufficient protection against off line raids. Players don't want to go to sleep one night, and wake up the next to nothing. Look how that turned out for games like Atlas/LO. I'm not sure what the solution is outside of siege windows and the like, but the lack of offline protection and the hope that clumsily put together AI is not the solution or the answer to having a long term sustainable population.

Don't invest more than you're willing to lose.

 

[Grudge Bringer]

I know henrik talked about how he didn't want timed windows, and how he thinks guards will be good enough. I'm going to go on record and say the AI is potato quality and in no way will be agile enough to provide sufficient protection against off line raids. Players don't want to go to sleep one night, and wake up the next to nothing. Look how that turned out for games like Atlas/LO. I'm not sure what the solution is outside of siege windows and the like, but the lack of offline protection and the hope that clumsily put together AI is not the solution or the answer to having a long term sustainable population.

100% agree. This and making logging out difficult will only make MO a niche game for WEEBS who have no real life/friends/job or family.

The community will be toxic with only these degenerates and the game will die like MO1

 

[Handsome Young Man]

100% agree. This and making logging out difficult will only make MO a niche game for WEEBS who have no real life/friends/job or family.

The community will be toxic with only these degenerates and the game will die like MO1

You literally made off-hand comments about how I don't play, then say this. When you in-fact do play way more then most.

Like, what?

So far from what I've seen you say and do, you fall more in your own definition then the supposed 'others' / community.

 

[Rorry]

My point is.. I feel this isn't really a issue. I get ninja sieging is stupid and bad, and it is; some things DO need to change to prevent such an anti-social way of playing.. but some of these problems can also be solved by the players.

I want to agree with your point.
The problem is that you are also (I believe) against what we call zerg alliances/ guilds which are the answer to ninja sieges do to the need to cover all time zones.
We can't have it both ways.

 

[Grudge Bringer]

You literally made off-hand comments about how I don't play, then say this. When you in-fact do play way more then most.

Like, what?

So far from what I've seen you say and do, you fall more in your own definition then the supposed 'others' / community.

Who hurt you?

 

[AnabolicRage]

That would be completely stupid to have offline protection beyond guards. I pray that the devs do not implement such a retarded mechanic. Unfortunately ninja sieging is apart of the game..guess what sucks to suck. Rebuild and start over. If you don't feel comfortable in a keep or palli then live in a city. This is not a care bear game so don't try to turn it into that just like every other retarded mmorpg on the market today.

 

[Rorry]

Ninja sieging is very carebear though.

 

[AnabolicRage]

Ninja sieging is very carebear though.

I never said it wasn't dirty but it's apart of the game. The game is all about risks. Should I be protected when I'm transporting 1k gold as well?

 

[Grudge Bringer]

When I die in-game I wanna die in real life. That would be hardcore!

 

[Rorry]

I never said it wasn't dirty but it's apart of the game. The game is all about risks. Should I be protected when I'm transporting 1k gold as well?

I don't want to be protected, just don't want to miss the fight.

If it were up to me we would have no walls and no player owned guards.

 

[Kaemik]

Cut and paste from the last time we had this topic come up.
______________

Anyone ever play the old Star Wars Battlefont 2? Not the super recent one but the one some of us played back on the original Xbox. It had this system where there were various "key points" on the map and as both sides fought not only did they lose troops in the actual fighting but whichever side had less control points also had troop attrition. Because of the way this worked, you could have huge battles with hundreds of units but only a small handful of them needed to be represented on the field at any given time.

That provides most of the context needed to understand this idea I wrote down mainly for fun as an exercise in how I would build my own MMO given the opportunity, and I feel is 100% adaptable to games like Mortal Online that inspired me in the first place:

As a game with Open World PvP and territorial control, the ability to take territory from other players by force is essential. Unfortunately this generally leads to people building up their own areas over the course of weeks, months, or even years, then losing it all in a single 3 am surprise attack. Some games have solved this problem by making it so there is warning period after a siege is declared but the battle itself still lasts only 1-3 hours meaning that if you are too busy to be there for that battle, or that battle is happening when you are usually working or sleeping it's a matter of bending your life to work for the game or not being present.

I find this system to be crap. Territory that is built by many people putting forth considerable effort and resources over a long period of time should only be conquerable by people putting forth considerable effort and resources over a long period of time.

The problem with that is that players generally cannot hold a siege 24/7 for a long period of time. That's far too much commitment for a game to reasonably expect of its players.

For that reason sieges will be fought between NPC armies with players acting as commanders and the heros of their respective factions. When sieging major holdings the opposing force must commit troops from the standing armies of their holdings, weakening the defenses of their territory. These forces will set up siege camps at the location they are being commanded to assault. From there there there will be several hotspots that there will be almost constant conflict between NPCs of the attacker and defender. While statistically the numbers of NPCs in these conflicts will probably number in the thousands there will likely only be dozens of NPCs represented by avatars on the fields at any given time for the sake of avoiding unnecessary lag.

Players can assist their factions by going and fighting at these hotspots. Controlling each hotspots gives various advantages to your team and or disadvantages to the enemy team. The primary purposes being that faction losing will bleed soldiers from their total number of forces faster and the attacking faction will either gain or lose victory points needed to successfully capture the settlement.

These sieges will be ongoing events meant to last days or even weeks, so the most useful way to help your side is to log on and fight over hotspots as you have time. Even if there is nobody on for your side during early hours of the morning it will not allow the enemy to achieve victory if your side is usually the winning side for most of the day or if they have not committed enough resources and soldiers to defeat a settlement with the defenses and soldiers yours has.

If you did something this in-depth you'd want to add outposts throughout the world. Smaller player-owned areas that can be taken and lost multiple times a day. Controlling outposts would help guilds generate troops to defend their keeps, siege their enemies, or (with some penalty) could be tied to something like a guildhall in an NPC town and then used to build up an army a non-keep holding guild could eventually take and siege a keep with.

In terms of "siege windows" obviously, this idea is meant to play out over days or weeks. But you might not have every moment of the day hold equal value. For instance, holding every single point at 3am might have less effect than holding every single point at prime time.

The main point is you don't want people waking up after working on a settlement 3 years and being like "Crap, that got taken while I was asleep?" or "No good, that siege hour falls during work/school hours for me!" with this system, you would literally have to not log in for days to not get the chance to participate in your cities defense on some level.

I realize the criticism of this system will be "I don't want NPCs to do the fighting for me!" But players take actions to generate those soldiers. Players take actions to lead those soldiers. Players have multiple methods to prevent enemy guilds from generating their soldiers or to widdle down their troop numbers. Every point of this system is player-driven. But it's played out more like a real-time strategy game than a pure player-avatar vs. player-avatar fight. Because your troops don't ever have to sleep IRL. You do. And personally I find Players and NPCs vs. Players and NPCs much more engaging than Player vs. Work & Sleep schedules.

 

[Kaemik]

TL : DR of the above idea. Seiges shouldn't be one off events that take an hour or two at most like they are in movies and most similar titles. They should be drawn out and costly engagements that feel epic in scale like they generally were IRL.