KotO - The Griefers Guild

[Emdash]

that's why i don't like big guild xd too much drama hahaha

I think it's possible w/ o drama. Depends on person. Some people can just fall in line and not care about what's going on around them. Guilds always be like... join us, you don't even have to com, then it's like come 2 com, then it's like ugh. I remem joining REQ I think and Qik came in and was like WHO IS THIS? WHO ARE YOU? and I was like... I'm not even gonna answer you man if you come at me in that tone, and he removed me, lol someone else put me back and they were like sry he's alil paranoid about spies, and he and I kind of exchanged a few words. It's shit like that I don't like. Nothing against Qik, he was cool and fine before/after, just that one instance, I mean I get it, but it's just harder for people to control everyone. Most guilds just need someone like Kuth to come in and explain it all away. Blee. Dunno if Kuth is mending any bridges between his guildies, tho.

I am pretty sure one can make a guild of decent size and 'factor' that does not have to be like that, it's just something that will take time and everyone needs to be kept on the same page. I don't resent REQ (or any other guild I left) for the various interactions I had, but it just goes to show how high strung everything is, and that's not why I play. It's sad cuz dudes are missing out on some real HQ members (not just talkin' about myself here hueee,) by being overbearing. Some people just wanna chill but still put in work. Not everyone is down for the militaristic thing, nor is it required IMO. I think a lot of people leading guilds aren't really good at dealing with personal conflicts/etc, they are more like generals and politicians. They aren't so great at handling their own inner discord. From my exp of joining a few 'larger' guilds that is.

 

[Jatix]

You/we are playing this game because it has a lack of rules and artificial circumstances. Skill and numbers balancing. You and your friend don’t/can’t play for the same reason that Turkmenistan can’t fight America and have fun. Imagine seeing them say lollol Abrams tank crutchers lol fist fight me I’m actually sick.

“but realism doesn’t make a fun video game”
Actually yeah it does. That is why you’re on the forums crying about it for 8 years. You cry about things you like not things you don’t care about.

sorry for the harshness it’s directed at your reasoning not you personally

No worries is all good. I dont say things like that with any expect or want for them to change it. Its more that I just dont think open pvp actually works as a sustainable game that is actually fun to play. Open pvp in concept is the coolest game possible. So many possibilities for sick fights and encounters, and really lopsided fights that when you win are memorable. Which is why I've been around this game so long. I obviously had a gopod time here and there. The issue and more what I meant by my post, is that 95% of the time you actually just get shit and not the experience you logged in for. And I could be mistaken, but I feel like year after year gets more zergy and harder to find good fights. But this could just be my memory remembering old things as better even if they still sucked lmao.

And by saying open pvp cant work and be fun, I mean games like Eve, in my opinion, just sound like extreme boredom simulators. So it could be possible for a dev to make a open pvp game that doesnt just bend over and die months after launch. But to make it not bend over and die, they either ruined the open pvp, or made it 99% farming sim. But even both of those options would do pretty poorly, because then its a bad open pvp game that people like us wont want to play. and then the people who arent us prob will just play a not open pvp game.

TLDR open pvp games sound super appealing. But to most people it ends up just sucking when you only get zerged when you do find fights. And then the rest of gameplay is walking sim in a poorly made empty world lol.

 

[Teknique]

No worries is all good. I dont say things like that with any expect or want for them to change it. Its more that I just dont think open pvp actually works as a sustainable game that is actually fun to play. Open pvp in concept is the coolest game possible. So many possibilities for sick fights and encounters, and really lopsided fights that when you win are memorable. Which is why I've been around this game so long. I obviously had a gopod time here and there. The issue and more what I meant by my post, is that 95% of the time you actually just get shit and not the experience you logged in for. And I could be mistaken, but I feel like year after year gets more zergy and harder to find good fights. But this could just be my memory remembering old things as better even if they still sucked lmao.

And by saying open pvp cant work and be fun, I mean games like Eve, in my opinion, just sound like extreme boredom simulators. So it could be possible for a dev to make a open pvp game that doesnt just bend over and die months after launch. But to make it not bend over and die, they either ruined the open pvp, or made it 99% farming sim. But even both of those options would do pretty poorly, because then its a bad open pvp game that people like us wont want to play. and then the people who arent us prob will just play a not open pvp game.

TLDR open pvp games sound super appealing. But to most people it ends up just sucking when you only get zerged when you do find fights. And then the rest of gameplay is walking sim in a poorly made empty world lol.

It doesn't work because it follows "similar" rules to real life.

The game doesn't care about your ability to face reality or not. The game just is, like nature, indifferent to your survival, to quote survivorman. It doesn't care if you can 2v50 or not the game just is. Its on you to make something out of that rule set or not, stubbornly adhering to "I will not play with greater than 2 people" is your choice but you kind of have to not be melancholy about it. At least if you're keen on accepting responsibility. Come on man when you seriously say it out loud don't you sound kind of crazy. I want to topple massive empire guilds with me and my one friend. Or I want every single person to fight me honourably.

I agree with what you're saying though, that for most people it can't work, because life is hard and so are games that emulate them. Why play and be reminded of your failures when you can do that in real life.

 

[Jatix]

Come on man when you seriously say it out loud don't you sound kind of crazy. I want to topple massive empire guilds with me and my one friend. Or I want every single person to fight me honourably.

Well its not that. I don't expect to be able to beat a whole guild as a 2 man group. I don't even want group conflict. and I fully expect people to want to zerg because its OP. I'm more saying that most people when they think fun open pvp game, they think getting attack out in the wild and having a fight. Trying to kill the guy who griefed him before. This isn't what you actually get in games like MO2. MO2 you get attacked by 8 mounted while farming. Or a guy attacks you so you call your other 7 and completely slam him. I want to not run into 5+ guys every time I run into anyone, or have 5+ called on me every time I run into less than 5. Which is how most other not large guild people feel about open pvp. And is why they all quit (partially. The game hasn o shortage of other issues). Not saying the game can even fix this. But people seem surprised when this style game does poorly. People who dont want to be in a large group have very little reason to play.

The big issue is everyone is in a chat outside the game. In a "realistic" scenario, if you found a guy out in the woods, he cant call his team. Theres no internet in nave. But obviously there's no way to actually fix this. But it plagues every game with a pvp area lol.

 

[Emdash]

I agree with what you're saying though, that for most people it can't work, because life is hard and so are games that emulate them. Why play and be reminded of your failures when you can do that in real life.

edit: no drama! Can't delete the quote of it tho.

 

[Kuthara]

Not sure how this post got resurrected but let us keep it simple.

Oghmir was kicked from KotO for not following the rules and attacking Coalition members and random people.

Since then he has taken every opportunity on multiple media platforms to slander us, while also streaming himself being a GY/Sewer shitter.

This is him complaining that we killed his horses. It is like a criminal blaming a cop he just slapped for pepper spraying him.

KotO bIg BuLly GuIlD

 

[ThaBadMan]

Well tbh this is a problem made by SV.
This is a MMOrpg so spawns being made for a solo game is not well designed for a game meant for thousands of players.

If spawns where MMO size a respawn would happen before all animals/mobs/humanoids at said spawn could be killed.

But in their learning from past mistakes SV made even a whole region designed for a solo player since 1 player can lock down vast regions of spawns alone.

SV is in way over their head and cant cater to their population as their entire game is made for solo players spreading evenly out making this in reality a game designed for a couple hundred hermits spread out over the map farming their respective regions fauna.

 

[Teknique]

Well its not that. I don't expect to be able to beat a whole guild as a 2 man group. I don't even want group conflict. and I fully expect people to want to zerg because its OP. I'm more saying that most people when they think fun open pvp game, they think getting attack out in the wild and having a fight. Trying to kill the guy who griefed him before. This isn't what you actually get in games like MO2. MO2 you get attacked by 8 mounted while farming. Or a guy attacks you so you call your other 7 and completely slam him. I want to not run into 5+ guys every time I run into anyone, or have 5+ called on me every time I run into less than 5. Which is how most other not large guild people feel about open pvp. And is why they all quit (partially. The game hasn o shortage of other issues). Not saying the game can even fix this. But people seem surprised when this style game does poorly. People who dont want to be in a large group have very little reason to play.

The big issue is everyone is in a chat outside the game. In a "realistic" scenario, if you found a guy out in the woods, he cant call his team. Theres no internet in nave. But obviously there's no way to actually fix this. But it plagues every game with a pvp area lol.

I can't disagree with you really, other than, people do indeed do things solo in this game. I moved 1400 gold by myself last night for example.

People are going to use tactics, like teaming up. If you're committed to playing solo you're going to need to do the same. Don't stay in one place for long, use cliffs and water. There are certainly players who are good at that play style that exist.

I remember hearing a friend of mine's professor on a taped lecture say, "It wasn't the person who learned kung fu that went on to be the survivors. It was people coming together to form communities". You played the solo play style for years but its clearly not making you happy. Its easy to see why since you're going against the very nature of reality.

Again I know your point is that this is why you think full loot sandbox games don't work. You're probably right, people probably don't want to treat a game so seriously.

 

[Teknique]

He's not wrong. I mean, 2 quick stories: I see 5 people pop in, 1 follows me, I play like shit (my horse is just paper so I'm on the ground,) but I know even in meh armor with 165 hp, this dude's horse is gonna die before I am. His horse gets low, (I'm low, too, but I'm comfy,) and what happens? He rides off and I start getting shot in the back of the head. Second story: I get attacked by 2 people, die quickly, go back, find one has been in an encounter and off his horse + his horse kinda low. Do a drive by to finish his horse and head off and start clearing the nearest horse spawn. I find him there, he longbows me off ( I assume he eventually got a horse), see the other guy eventually getting a horse, and baste it before he can even mount, next thing I know a 3rd guy is in there... and it's like sigh.

I remem, one of my friends from MO who was breeding mid-tier Lyks to sell in Toxai told me one of the RPK nubs attacked him and one RPK vets (forgot who, memory is dead lately) just sat by and watched dude get eaten by his lyk haha. There comes a point where it's like OK you chose the engagement, finish it out.

Like I said in another thread: name some of the great roaming PKers in MO2, like there were in 1. I am not struggling to make ends, and I'm not even high skill (esp on ground!), but in order to really gain, I'd have to gank nubs mostly. You realize something, in MO2, mostly the people out solo are NUBS haha. Unless they are pretty close to a city/keep, ostensibly with people to back them up if necessary.

I live in Bakti and I see guilds come in often with 10+ mounteds. It's like what ARE YOU DOING?? Not gonna name drop, but WHAT.

I embrace the small lifestyle, but it's easy to see why it's annoying, and that's not to mention that if they don't have guildies, they prol have allies, too. So I mean you get the moral victory for a sec then you get scraped. If you care about moral victories or playing high tension hide and seek, it's fun, but if you care about winning and keeping your loot, not so much.

And I know there is new talent, but a lot of the talent in this game, like the vets are like C tier or washed af. What they have are connections. Like I said you almost have to be a nub to be solo at all, and that's sad. The gains you make solo are actually good nuff, you lose effiency in a lot of cases by adding people, it's just people don't wanna factor in dying to their gameplay cycle when it's a totally natural thing.

Take jungle camp: you are farming sators solo, you get decent gains if you actually pick up the loot, multiple camps, etc. You get 2-3 people on it, it's watered down. How many sator spears and hornscale armors do you want? They have no value. A crep bow, a bag? That's about the extent of what you are going to come up on that you can't make down there.

I assume as the game lasts longer, it will get less zergy, but it really is kind of a joke. I'm not upset about it, but it's pathetic in its own way. The RL metaphor is apt because dudes come on here to pump their egos not to actually compete. Which I think is the essence of his post.

These games just simply aren't meant to be played solo.

Its fine if you want to play it on hardcore mode, but if it isn't making you happy then you shouldn't do it.

There isn't some magical God of nave who will show you favor for playing solo. You're either strong enough to do it or you'll die.

As for great players and pvpers its pretty easy to tell whos good in MO 2 or not actually because of the higher bit rate you can see all their movements and what they are doing. In mo 1 everyone looked the same, not to mention you cheated in mo 1by simply renaming cheat engine. I can name quite a lot of good players in mo 2.

I don't know how to say this part without being rude, but you uploaded duel videos. And lets just say you really shouldn't be making any suggestions on the combat.

 

[ThaBadMan]

These games just simply aren't meant to be played solo.

Its fine if you want to play it on hardcore mode, but if it isn't making you happy then you shouldn't do it.

There isn't some magical God of nave who will show you favor for playing solo. You're either strong enough to do it or you'll die.

As for great players and pvpers its pretty easy to tell whos good in MO 2 or not actually because of the higher bit rate you can see all their movements and what they are doing. In mo 1 everyone looked the same, not to mention you cheated in mo 1by simply renaming cheat engine. I can name quite a lot of good players in mo 2.

I don't know how to say this part without being rude, but you uploaded duel videos. And lets just say you really shouldn't be making any suggestions on the combat.

These games arent meant to be played solo...

And then literally the entire game is made for solo players. Towns, spanws, amount of animals, etc is all made for solo players.

 

[Teknique]

These games arent meant to be played solo...

And then literally the entire game is made for solo players. Towns, spanws, amount of animals, etc is all made for solo players.

I'd say that there are a lot of mechanics to help solo players. Which is why it isn't life is feudal, and which is why I consider this game actually playable.

 

[Jatix]

These games arent meant to be played solo...

And then literally the entire game is made for solo players. Towns, spanws, amount of animals, etc is all made for solo players.

One of the other many reasons open pvp games fail. Grouping up is the best option. But lots of players dont want to join larger groups because they dont find it fun (like myself). Trying to make a game design that heavily caters to group play, solo friendly, just makes the game bad at what it was originally trying to do. So theres no way for the devs to win. solo players are the majority of gamers so they want to get some of those playing. But the raw game concept doesnt work well for solo players. And then trying to make it solo friendly just screws the groups, while the game is still bad for solo players.

 

[ThaBadMan]

I'd say that there are a lot of mechanics to help solo players. Which is why it isn't life is feudal, and which is why I consider this game actually playable.

As it should. All MMOs should cater to solo, small, medium and large groups.
This game just cant decide and so the game worlds contents are made for solo players in mind while the game worlds size and systems are made for group play.
This translates into 1 player able to lock down areas that should be designed for hundreds of players based on the size.
Meaning 1 player can easily lock down upto and not limited to 5 spawns of anything be it Risars, Bandits, Tagmatons, Turtles, shores, sators and you name it.
We have a handful of group activities in dungeons but everything is riddled with bugs so exploiters can solo almost anything through bugs.
This is bad for the longevity of the game for any category of player.

One of the other many reasons open pvp games fail. Grouping up is the best option. But lots of players dont want to join larger groups because they dont find it fun (like myself). Trying to make a game design that heavily caters to group play, solo friendly, just makes the game bad at what it was originally trying to do. So theres no way for the devs to win. solo players are the majority of gamers so they want to get some of those playing. But the raw game concept doesnt work well for solo players. And then trying to make it solo friendly just screws the groups, while the game is still bad for solo players.

Yes but MMOs are primarily made for group play and thats what it should primarily focus on. But the more categories of players you cater to the more successful your game will be but anything in between will shove and pull different kinds of players. MO2 does fall in the between everything game type.

What you do is make different parts for different mindsets, where groups dont want to go into solo or low group areas but in return group areas need to be designed for groups and reward them accordingly.

In MO2 we have solo areas that get camped by groups for foot PvP because the game is huge and mostly cater to mounteds in 90% of the world.
Solo players then need to group up to fight back and not get farmed, small groups need additional numbers, etc.
Now comes the giant problem which is that medium to large group areas with high tier mobs. Spawns are made for solo players and not groups. Tagmatons are spawned max 2 per spawn and they dont cooperate, they dont swarm, they dont require groups to farm and arent dangerous, all camps are easily farmed alone be it bandit, risar and sators, again no cooperation, no big spawns with swarm tactics where skill and strategy is required. Loot is far from enough for groups since its not enough for solos even.

Dungeons are slightly better if you run it as intended. Start some fuckery and suddenly you can bug out and ravage the dungeon at will since mobs get stuck, start weird behaviour and all the other issues MO is so known for.

Theres also no steps in place to limit hacking and exploiting by solo or small groups with group intended activities. A simple requirement of players in boss room to have boss spawn in the first place. Theres no spawns large enough to require a certain size group to actually travel into dungeons, its simply mob after mob served on a platter to group up against solo mob after mob.

Anyway rant over.
I graciously accept the point, whoever is quickest to find this.

 

[Ibarruri]

Well its not that. I don't expect to be able to beat a whole guild as a 2 man group. I don't even want group conflict. and I fully expect people to want to zerg because its OP. I'm more saying that most people when they think fun open pvp game, they think getting attack out in the wild and having a fight. Trying to kill the guy who griefed him before. This isn't what you actually get in games like MO2. MO2 you get attacked by 8 mounted while farming. Or a guy attacks you so you call your other 7 and completely slam him. I want to not run into 5+ guys every time I run into anyone, or have 5+ called on me every time I run into less than 5. Which is how most other not large guild people feel about open pvp. And is why they all quit (partially. The game hasn o shortage of other issues). Not saying the game can even fix this. But people seem surprised when this style game does poorly. People who dont want to be in a large group have very little reason to play.

The big issue is everyone is in a chat outside the game. In a "realistic" scenario, if you found a guy out in the woods, he cant call his team. Theres no internet in nave. But obviously there's no way to actually fix this. But it plagues every game with a pvp area lol.

The game is realistic and tough. People don't want to lose their belongings and will use whatever tactics they can to survive. Including relying on numerical superiority.
there is nothing wrong with this and it is normal. It is the natural law of the strongest.
talk of honor in Myrland is out of line, at least in combat. It's about surviving.
Some can adapt and move on. Others leave.
I was just a player for a long time and I never cared about this.
Right now I manage a very small group (5 people) quite successfully and we do loads of fun stuff, thrive and accomplish our goals in the game.
Until not long ago I managed a group of almost 20 people and they were great too.
It's just about adapting and being realistic.
That's all.

 

[Hodo]

One of the other many reasons open pvp games fail. Grouping up is the best option. But lots of players dont want to join larger groups because they dont find it fun (like myself). Trying to make a game design that heavily caters to group play, solo friendly, just makes the game bad at what it was originally trying to do. So theres no way for the devs to win. solo players are the majority of gamers so they want to get some of those playing. But the raw game concept doesnt work well for solo players. And then trying to make it solo friendly just screws the groups, while the game is still bad for solo players.

So... the sentiment of this game isnt solo friendly or is solo friendly is just stupid. Having played MMOs off and on for the past 30 years I cant think of one that did everything perfectly. There have been a few that have come close only to ruin it with a patch or a DLC that changes things to far one way or the other.

In MO2 there are aspects of the game where you can easily do alone, especially if you are a mounted archer or mounted mage (even with the slow as hell casting). But there are other things that you can do in small groups. Anyone who thinks you need 30+ to do something like the minotaur king is mistaken, you CAN do it with 5-10 people pretty easily if you know what you're doing. Even if you dont do the king himself a couple of people can easily farm minotaurs till they are so flush with gold they could buy whatever they wanted.

I have never understood why it is so difficult to want to play with a group, any group. It doesnt have to be a mega "zerg" like KotO or Legion, it could be a small group, or even a small group within a bigger group. These were issues in Mortal Online 1, several posters in this thread should remember they were there. You couldnt do the cultist dungeon in Sarduca solo, it just wasnt going to happen. You couldnt realistically do the Retzar Queen solo, while I am sure people did, it wasnt practical. But yet most of the overland mobs were easily soloed, easily if you were a MA or mounted mage.

 

[Emdash]

edit: no drama. I stand by what I said tho about understanding the game.

 

[Teknique]

The game isn't all dueling. Explain to me in detail why I should not make a suggestions about combat? Are you saying I lack intelligence and awareness or are you saying that you actually think I am so clueless and awful that I'm just smashing my face on the KB every time I play? haha.

I didn't say there weren't good players, I said most of the vets are washed af haha. The new kids are good. I think it's funny you guys say that you can tell who is good ( assuming meaning you can tell who is planning their actions, not who is executing a meta strategy well) but all maintain I'm utter dogshit. haha. I don't play like you, ok. You're not the first person to say that, tho! Oh well.

It's easy for me to tell who is good by playing v them. BTW when I said playing solo, I meant like... leaving the town without a group. Something most people won't do. People in MO1 did it a lot. I've been doin fine solo since Mo1 also. I just made a guild in 2 because fun. I'm happy about my place in MO1 history, as a solo.

I play solo a lot even w/ a guild. Played w/ my friend the other day and we fought some people n won wow. Fair fights, too. It's much different than x v 1; however, if you don't ever play solo, you're not gonna be doing much. So you just have to take the L sometimes.

PS: I'm not saying you're washed. I do know you consider yourself to be one of the best and I wonder if you would have been one of the best back then given your current skill set. Maybe you would have. Dunno! But the game is way different. There aren't many people who I've seen who I consider to be playing this game at a high level like... to where it's like zomg, like when you see people play fighting games in tourneys. It's just kinda a mish-mash of people who are pretty good and doing the same thing, IMO.

I apologize i'm actually not saying this to offend you.

First let me give you a break down

25:46 a super telegraphed hit held for obviously long (greater than the charge time)
25:53 same thing
25:54 reacted to parry after the swing
25:56 missed swing aight whatever it happens
25:57 0 reaction time on his overhead swing
25:59 Didn't react to enemy swing
26:00 miss swing
26:06 try to trade hits without accelerating your swing to get first hit and parry reset.

I don't see a need to continue.

Now you post very very frequently about balance. I'm not there attacking you for it. Don't you feel like you should have a good understanding of combat before you try to change it for other people? View it as that, a simple request to look inward at your game play. I think if the whole community did that we would be in much better shape.

 

[Emdash]

I apologize i'm actually not saying this to offend you.

First let me give you a break down

25:46 a super telegraphed hit held for obviously long (greater than the charge time)
25:53 same thing
25:54 reacted to parry after the swing
25:56 missed swing aight whatever it happens
25:57 0 reaction time on his overhead swing
25:59 Didn't react to enemy swing
26:00 miss swing
26:06 try to trade hits without accelerating your swing to get first hit and parry reset.

I don't see a need to continute.

Now you post very very frequently about balance. I'm not there attacking you for it. Don't you feel like you should have a good understanding of combat before you try to change it for other people? View it as that, a simple request to look inward at your game play. I think if the whole community did that we would be in much better shape.

edit: nvm, gonna leave this as it is. lol. I apologize for offending you.

 

[LordMega]

Anyone who thinks you need 30+ to do something like the minotaur king is mistaken, you CAN do it with 5-10 people pretty easily if you know what you're doing.

5-10 people to do the mino king? Nah. Show me a video of someone doing it AFTER RELEASE with less than 18 and I will pay you 100 gold. See, the mino king has been adjusted and re-balanced quite a bit. You can get the 10 best players in the entire game and still probably not down the mino king. This is not the same Minotaur King from beta.

Before the horse-dungeon nerf, I saw Mino King solo'd more than once, as well. After that was fixed- you could probably do it with 12-15 solid players who knew the fight. They buffed it again for the release version, though.

5 or 10 people..idk.

*EDIT* So I've heard from someone else I know that you actually can do mino king right now with less than 10 people? Allegedly without exploits. If so, I was wrong and will put my foot in my big mouth. I'm still awaiting some footage of this. Admittedly, I am not the biggest PvEr, I really only PvE as a means to an end rather than enjoyment; I am here for the PvP. Still, if I was wrong, I'll update and own up to that fact. I am very interested to see what strategy would accomplish this.