Immortal Online : Everyone is Wolverine

[Sally]

Thats just gonna force everyone to go hybrid for heals, dumb asf

"dumb asf" another great argument.

If people go hybrid heals, they aleast have to stand still and lose near all of their mobility AND can be interrupted AND have to have stat and skill point investment...

That is fine by me.

 

[Sally]

Maybe you would have a case if the game was only melee. Yeah its gonna be so fun playing footie getting mage banged from far or shot from arrows with 0 self heal.

Wow, the entitlement.

You seem to think you should just be able to recover from an arrow or magic because you're a melee fighter.. Why do you think that should be the case?

Range classes come with their own disadvantages. Like tiny damage if they're a foot archer, or low armor if they're a mage. Why should you just be able to heal over their work when your damage sticks when you're in range.

Also, what is the point of being a ranged class on a battlefield if people can just erase your damage? You're basically saying you're okay with foot archers being rendered obsolete against anyone in armor.

 

[ElPerro]

At this point you are asking for anti-zerg mechanic. In an open world mmo that highly encourage people to group up….It seems very artificial and counter intuitive. Game forces you into grouping up….but then penalizes you for getting too many? And who is to decide what the perfect group size is? 3? 5? 10? 20? 50?
And what quantifies as a zerg? Twice the numbers? 3 times? 5 times?
And how close do groups need to be to be considered 1 zerg as opposed to multiple groups?

The issues multiply the more you explore an anti-zerg mechanic. You have to remember that zergs means a lot of people. Why should a lot of people be penalized for working together, so that the few can have a funner gameplay?
How does the fun of the few, supersede the fun of the many? After all there is nothing stopping the few from becoming the many. It is simply a choice in preference.

Its not about penalizing the zergs artificially, but they already have the advantage in numbers and shouldnt be favored by game mechanics like big TTK with little stam. Or stuff like the tactician clade that lets you aoe inside your own group without caring about friendly fire, or oghmirs with towershield that dont even need to parry. An equally skilled group with bigger numbers should win obviously.

You say the fun of the many should supersede the fun of the few, well zergs kill the fun for everyone not in the zerg. If you add up all the solos and small guilds they wipe out they probably end up being close or more than the zerg numbers.

 

[Emdash]

Again, with the last post of a similar argument, this feels like you're willing to accept bandages as they are because the other healing items are so overblown.

It is like a salesman who tries to overprice whatever he is selling so that you'll accept a price over the worth of what it is you're buying. That is people with bandages.

Bandages are not okay, even by comparison to worse things. Self healing needs a serious nerf across the board, aside from magic healing.

nah, Sally, I mean that self heals in general are bad (imo.) Being able to sustain with something like a bandaid that is timed as well as impossible to use under pressure is a great solution for self heals. Old skool is just you need a mage to heal you, but being a fighter and being able to wrap once in awhile is good. If archery was right you could still pressure dude so he couldn't bandaid. Again, there are like 5 other flaws leading to this, not bandaids.

 

[ElPerro]

Wow, the entitlement.

You seem to think you should just be able to recover from an arrow or magic because you're a melee fighter.. Why do you think that should be the case?

Range classes come with their own disadvantages. Like tiny damage if they're a foot archer, or low armor if they're a mage. Why should you just be able to heal over their work when your damage sticks when you're in range.

Also, what is the point of being a ranged class on a battlefield if people can just erase your damage? You're basically saying you're okay with foot archers being rendered obsolete against anyone in armor.

Low armor? Yeah with towershield they literally cast on your face while tanking your shots and with death hand they dont even need to stay still.

Not to mention theres this little spell called corrupt that will negate all the heals from the bandage, and the fighter cant even attack or do anything for the whole duration..

It seems you just want to mage bang foot fighters even easier

 

[MolagAmur]

When combat was actually fun. Arrows hit for a reasonable amount. No Oghmir crackpipes. No Blood Kua. Biggest potion was 40 HP which was only used as an emergency heal (basically allowed you one extra hit) and also made farming risars fun and more rewarding. Movement felt amazing and not sluggish. Combat was quicker and not a snailfest. No ridiculously heavy full metal armors running around with little penalty. Mounted combat was viable, but didn't define the meta. Combat pets were pretty useless other than meat shields for the most part (which is a good thing btw).

Yeah there were absolutely bugs and the usual OP weapons of the month. I'm not looking back with rose tinted glasses. But as for the overall feel of combat and in-combat healing...this was its prime. And it should have only been refined from here. Instead it went backwards in my opinion.

 

[Sally]

Low armor? Yeah with towershield they literally cast on your face while tanking your shots and with death hand they dont even need to stay still.

Not to mention theres this little spell called corrupt that will negate all the heals from the bandage, and the fighter cant even attack or do anything for the whole duration..

It seems you just want to mage bang foot fighters even easier

Towershield mages are a problem also, i even have a thread about that in feedback. I can see they are trying to make attempts at correcting it however.

Well, that is nice for mages, but not everyone has corrupt.

 

[Rahz]

The problem is not bandaids in my opinion, it's simply heavy armor/ towershields but since most people use them, they think it's just fine .
Longbows don't do too low damage , they do much too high damage against light armor and too low damage against heavy armor.
Heavy Armor is so overtuned, that some builds are almost impossible to kill solo in a reasonable time. Towershields should imo get a strength requirement to avoid mages from using them (its simply unfair to have like 95% dmg reduction on your back). And the argument with magic damage being "too strong" is dishonest at best. There is no way footies can't just pull out a bow and fight back on kinda even footing, right?! With more range, more damage, higher attack speed and more ammunition while on a heavily armored "melee build" against a mage. Yes mages have much better utility and death hand is just stupid and should be outright deleted but the biggest problem with combat balance is players being too tanky to a point where magic damage from multiple mages is the only way to burst down some of those builds. And yes if three mages flamestrike you while overextending in group fights, you should die with 10psy.

 

[Sally]

The problem is not bandaids in my opinion, it's simply heavy armor/ towershields but since most people use them, they think it's just fine .
Longbows don't do too low damage , they do much too high damage against light armor and too low damage against heavy armor.
Heavy Armor is so overtuned, that some builds are almost impossible to kill solo in a reasonable time. Towershields should imo get a strength requirement to avoid mages from using them (its simply unfair to have like 95% dmg reduction on your back). And the argument with magic damage being "too strong" is dishonest at best. There is no way footies can't just pull out a bow and fight back on kinda even footing, right?! With more range, more damage, higher attack speed and more ammunition while on a heavily armored "melee build" against a mage. Yes mages have much better utility and death hand is just stupid and should be outright deleted but the biggest problem with combat balance is players being too tanky to a point where magic damage from multiple mages is the only way to burst down some of those builds. And yes if three mages flamestrike you while overextending in group fights, you should die with 10psy.

I think this is a pretty soild take actually, especially the part about bows doing too much to low armor and too little to high armor.

I can get behind armor being overtuned being the issue for sure.

 

[MolagAmur]

I think this is a pretty soild take actually, especially the part about bows doing too much to low armor and too little to high armor.

I can get behind armor being overtuned being the issue for sure.

Thats the thing...in the video I linked it was a time before Heavy Armor Training existed. The most you would see is someone wearing a metal torso and/or metal helmet. This overencumbered them of course and they moved a bit slower and had slower stamina regen, but that was the trade off they chose for taking drastically less damage in those areas in comparison to the scales/bone everyone else was wearing.

Then they released Heavy Armor Training and released new armors that were extremely low weight and OP (Direptor). So the meta shifts from 15kg armored warriors and 10kg hybrids to everyone wearing full metal armor with ZERO penalty but massive protection increases.

Now its the same with MO2, but you add in slower combat,Ogh pipes, clades, and you have this major issue you're talking about.

 

[Emdash]

When combat was actually fun. Arrows hit for a reasonable amount. No Oghmir crackpipes. No Blood Kua. Biggest potion was 40 HP which was only used as an emergency heal (basically allowed you one extra hit) and also made farming risars fun and more rewarding. Movement felt amazing and not sluggish. Combat was quicker and not a snailfest. No ridiculously heavy full metal armors running around with little penalty. Mounted combat was viable, but didn't define the meta. Combat pets were pretty useless other than meat shields for the most part (which is a good thing btw).

Yeah there were absolutely bugs and the usual OP weapons of the month. I'm not looking back with rose tinted glasses. But as for the overall feel of combat and in-combat healing...this was its prime. And it should have only been refined from here. Instead it went backwards in my opinion.

2 bad they camped people at steam launch so they had to change the game, ha.