IMMEDIATE FEEDBACK on ARMOR! Update Armor Tiers before game release! A MUST READ to the serious player!!

[Evelyn]

Well no that is not quite accurate. There IS a fairly noticeable difference between Ironbone and Steel when it comes to Piercing and Slashing.

Ironbone Merc Pl8:
B: 34.47
P: 52.41
S: 46.19

Steel Merc Pl8:
B: 39.52 (+5.05)
P: 65.01 (+12.60)
S: 63.53 (+17.34)

To put that in perspective...that's almost equal to the difference between Kallardian Padded made out of horned scales (mage armor) and ironbone mercenary plate (the heaviest melee set in game at this time). That is not a small difference. The issue again is that Steel is too heavy.

 

[Bernfred]

when you average out the damage with slashing+blunt defense:
Ironbone has 5,2 defense/weight and Steel has 3,7.

you only gain more durability with metals which is not worth if you dont consider the armor carry limit. steel armor IRL is light. imo it would be better to change the defense/weight ratio to the same level and let the increased durability as metal bonus.

 

[Rorry]

We know from our experience of the first game that it is more fun when steel/metal armors are not the standard set that everyone wears. They can let ironbone be the standard, or buff incisium to become the standard, either seems fine. Lowering the defenses of bone tissue by a quarter would be a good thing as well. Someone could still wear it when destitute but they would seek to move up quickly.

 

[Bernfred]

We know from our experience of the first game that it is more fun when steel/metal armors are not the standard set that everyone wears. They can let ironbone be the standard, or buff incisium to become the standard, either seems fine. Lowering the defenses of bone tissue by a quarter would be a good thing as well. Someone could still wear it when destitute but they would seek to move up quickly.

this is exactly the reason why we have what we have. it turns out that the "MO1 meta" was no real MMORPG but more a show off for consensual group PvP where lower TTK brought more action. MO2 needs to be more MMORPG focused and that includes that you see nice messing and pig iron on the battlefield.

bone armor == graveyard farmer with free bank slots
shiny metal == battlefield enjoyer

 

[Rorry]

What next? Turn based combat?

So instead of it showing off group pvp, it should show off crafting diversity? Don't think that is a formula for lasting success of the game. Once you craft everything possible a few times, then what?

 

[Bernfred]

What next? Turn based combat?

So instead of it showing off group pvp, it should show off crafting diversity? Don't think that is a formula for lasting success of the game. Once you craft everything possible a few times, then what?

dont quite get the logic but let me explain this: if you nerf bone and/or give metals a buff in terms of weight, it wont change your eSport title to a turn based game, it will only replace the ugly and economy unfriendly bone armor. imo Steel, which is the sweet spot, needs more blunt defense and not less. yes this is the right formula dont worry.

 

[Rorry]

You seemed to be saying that pvp being fun or balanced was less important than how people looked on the battle field.

 

[Bernfred]

You seemed to be saying that pvp being fun or balanced was less important than how people looked on the battle field.

i want both like you can see, i want that people farm metals (not only steel) and scales for their evening armor and bone and leather for their PvE sets.
if its fun and balanced for you to run and play against no gear, fine but i want a better MMORPG and not another MO1

 

[Teknique]

We know from our experience of the first game that it is more fun when steel/metal armors are not the standard set that everyone wears. They can let ironbone be the standard, or buff incisium to become the standard, either seems fine. Lowering the defenses of bone tissue by a quarter would be a good thing as well. Someone could still wear it when destitute but they would seek to move up quickly.

I don't know if its good that steel armor is worthless tbh.

It does make cronite useful though.

 

[PoisonArrows]

Well no that is not quite accurate. There IS a fairly noticeable difference between Ironbone and Steel when it comes to Piercing and Slashing.

Ironbone Merc Pl8:
B: 34.47
P: 52.41
S: 46.19

Steel Merc Pl8:
B: 39.52 (+5.05)
P: 65.01 (+12.60)
S: 63.53 (+17.34)

To put that in perspective...that's almost equal to the difference between Kallardian Padded made out of horned scales (mage armor) and ironbone mercenary plate (the heaviest melee set in game at this time). That is not a small difference. The issue again is that Steel is too heavy.

Those Numbers don't represent actual damage in the game. In the video i linked you can see there is only a few points of damage even when comparing Steel vs Tungsteel.

 

[PoisonArrows]

We know from our experience of the first game that it is more fun when steel/metal armors are not the standard set that everyone wears. They can let ironbone be the standard, or buff incisium to become the standard, either seems fine. Lowering the defenses of bone tissue by a quarter would be a good thing as well. Someone could still wear it when destitute but they would seek to move up quickly.

The 1st game had a few things going for it ONLY because Mo2 isn't fully released yet with all content. With that being said, there is nothing better about seeing a bunch of scrubs running around in garbage when they can wear end game stuff. When i start a game i expect to wear low end gear, when i finish a game i don't expect to still be wearing that. There should be some changes, stamina lowered, defense buffed or a meta or something idc what it is. Something to make it so people wear better stuff. If you actually think about what you wrote it makes no sense. Do you know any MMOs where you see lv 100 players walking around in beginning armor.

 

[Snasen]

I just wish they made materials more different on the modifiers. Preferably all mats would have their own way of being useful in armor. I want to see a lot of different textures on peoples gear and for a good reason. Make the cheap bone weaker, but fill the gap between that and steel with the rest of the mats and also give them alot of different modifiers.

 

[PoisonArrows]

You seemed to be saying that pvp being fun or balanced was less important than how people looked on the battle field.

I'm not even sure what you are trying to argue. A game balanced around starter gear doesn't make it better or right if no one is using the end game gear for Any reason then there is a problem that needs fixed. Metal armors needing buffed in defense and stamina or whatever else, whatever it takes. More ore when mined or whatever it needs. Because currently Pvp being Fun when you kill a guy that has Emalji or Bone isn't fun. Where is the risk and reward of that? I can just go kill a pig to get the same stuff. Everyone is saying Metal armors aren't being used because it weakens your stamina too much and because the armor isn't as good as it is supposed to be. Because clearly 3 extra defense is a joke between armor tiers and if it takes weeks or months to obtain then it should be better then that. And we just want a game that has competitive pvp elements and one where players are using armor better then pig materials.

 

[PoisonArrows]

I just wish they made materials more different on the modifiers. Preferably all mats would have their own way of being useful in armor. I want to see a lot of different textures on peoples gear and for a good reason. Make the cheap bone weaker, but fill the gap between that and steel with the rest of the mats and also give them alot of different modifiers.

That would be a great idea. People often used Incisium because in the early days it was weaker defense then Ironbone or Molarium but weighed less so you were faster. But then Sv just went around nerfing each material and a new meta was born every time.... But if they made it so every material was good at a certain thing and then just Stuck with that and didn't nerf crap constantly then we could have some competitive materials. But i think everything starts with SV realizing that right now Pig Mats is all anyone is using. We need buffs to the Light And Medium Armors and Buffs to Metal Mats and then i think we will see some Variety.

 

[PoisonArrows]

I just wish they made materials more different on the modifiers. Preferably all mats would have their own way of being useful in armor. I want to see a lot of different textures on peoples gear and for a good reason. Make the cheap bone weaker, but fill the gap between that and steel with the rest of the mats and also give them alot of different modifiers.

I'd also point you in the direction of Cosmoid Armor or Pansar armor that stuff looked pretty cool. I do not actually have a screenshot of either atm though.

 

[PoisonArrows]

i want both like you can see, i want that people farm metals (not only steel) and scales for their evening armor and bone and leather for their PvE sets.
if its fun and balanced for you to run and play against no gear, fine but i want a better MMORPG and not another MO1

Damn this guy gets it, Someone give this guy a Gold Medal and a Trophy. Honestly why can't the rest of them understand that a MMORPG needs good gear. We need to see higher end Metal gear on the battlefield DAMN straight!

 

[Valoran]

You are the one who is misinformed sir. 1.) Stamina Aside my main point that there is hardly any defense difference between ironbone and steel stands correct it's just a few points. 2.) Steel vs Tungsteel once again is only a few points difference as evidence from the video i linked. 3.) I know about Oghmium being good in Mo1 especially with Pierce defense and Draconigena Armatus so i am not sure what you meant about that last part.

You seem to have missed the point of that video.

If you actually listen to what Speznat/Wolfzeit is saying, he explains how what seems like a small difference is actually very significant.

We know through experience that the difference between steel and tungsteel is quite substantial.

Although I agree that metal armors are in a rough place right now because the stamina penalty is arguably too severe, the fact that people aren't wearing them on mass doesn't actually mean they arent good. People might simply choose to wear ironbone armor most of the time because they don't have a large reserve of steel to replace sets when they die, and are saving them for significant events.

Metal armors such as steel, tungsteel, cronite and oghmium saw the most prevalent use during large siege fights in MO1, even though most people would not want to wear it while solo roaming or similar.



There is also something to be said about player skill in regard to stamina management, and playing the exact same way while wearing steel as you would in a lighter material will of course result in you running out of stamina a lot more often with the current systems. I've talked about this in here before, but a lot of people that I see in their PvP videos have quite bad stamina management.

It really boils down to how much you needlessly move around, and how you behave when you do get low on stamina.

1. You will regenerate stamina at a much faster rate when standing completely still, so try not to walk around for no reason while you're fighting.

2. If you do get low, stand still and take a breather by just parrying your opponent instead of continuing to try and fight them while constantly running out of stamina. (Not so applicable when in a group fight)

Do the above, and you'll feel the penalty of metals a lot less, however this applies to fighting in light armor as well and is just more efficient.

 

[MaDeuce]

When making these threads, also include your findings of environment vs armor... It will make you take a step back and dive deeper into projected discussed content of development. Remember that the only factors you can base anything off of is your knowledge of MO1. MO2 is going to BE DIFFERENT and have a (mentioned for extreme) sunken continent to play in, not excluding Sarducca and or the Risar Continent.. I could go on to list them all. Just like in MO1 temperature is going to be a factor as well.. You feeling where they are balancing now, have a good direction and distance on where MO2 heading? Until those factors are in play, it will feel a bit unbalanced while you are testing and finding bugs. Other solutions to bring balance to your concerns would be to draw back and placehold gear while developing those areas.. I recommend start requesting for them to develop these continents ASAP if you truly want to balance out Naves armor factors any further.

 

[PoisonArrows]

You seem to have missed the point of that video.

If you actually listen to what Speznat/Wolfzeit is saying, he explains how what seems like a small difference is actually very significant.

We know through experience that the difference between steel and tungsteel is quite substantial.

Although I agree that metal armors are in a rough place right now because the stamina penalty is arguably too severe, the fact that people aren't wearing them on mass doesn't actually mean they arent good. People might simply choose to wear ironbone armor most of the time because they don't have a large reserve of steel to replace sets when they die, and are saving them for significant events.

Metal armors such as steel, tungsteel, cronite and oghmium saw the most prevalent use during large siege fights in MO1, even though most people would not want to wear it while solo roaming or similar.



There is also something to be said about player skill in regard to stamina management, and playing the exact same way while wearing steel as you would in a lighter material will of course result in you running out of stamina a lot more often with the current systems. I've talked about this in here before, but a lot of people that I see in their PvP videos have quite bad stamina management.

It really boils down to how much you needlessly move around, and how you behave when you do get low on stamina.

1. You will regenerate stamina at a much faster rate when standing completely still, so try not to walk around for no reason while you're fighting.

2. If you do get low, stand still and take a breather by just parrying your opponent instead of continuing to try and fight them while constantly running out of stamina. (Not so applicable when in a group fight)

Do the above, and you'll feel the penalty of metals a lot less, however this applies to fighting in light armor as well and is just more efficient.

I didn't miss the point of the video, My Point was saying the damage of the armor is only a few points and Wolfs video proves that, that was the reason i referenced that video to show people. Wolfs point that Pros can last a long time and he thinks that makes it a Huuuuge difference are 2 different things. He's literally just making a opinion. Yes player skill in stamina management and all that yeah i get it. But Being attacked from the side or from the back, or in a group setting and taking only like 3 damage less when wearing Ironbone compared to steel. And then Steel compared to Tung is also just a few points damage difference. Those stats you read in game Example: 45 Slash, 45 Pierce, 45 Blunt. Those are not actually how much damage you resist because in testing the defense of Ironbone vs Steel and Steel vs Tungsteel the damage difference is far less and the video shows that. That ultimately doesn't seem like something worth farming weeks for, nor does it seem like end game content. Think of it this way. If i have 200hp and i wear steel armor and i take 20 damage from my opponents sword swing, but if i wear tungsteel i take 23 damage a sword swing. Then ultimately the math comes down to this. I can survive 10 Attacks of 20 damage a hit wearing my steel armor. Or i can survive 9 attacks in my Tung armor from 23 damage a hit. That is a 1 hit damage difference. Your individual player skill no matter how high your skill is or how low your skill is that is the difference 1 attack.

 

[PoisonArrows]

When making these threads, also include your findings of environment vs armor... It will make you take a step back and dive deeper into projected discussed content of development. Remember that the only factors you can base anything off of is your knowledge of MO1. MO2 is going to BE DIFFERENT and have a (mentioned for extreme) sunken continent to play in, not excluding Sarducca and or the Risar Continent.. I could go on to list them all. Just like in MO1 temperature is going to be a factor as well.. You feeling where they are balancing now, have a good direction and distance on where MO2 heading? Until those factors are in play, it will feel a bit unbalanced while you are testing and finding bugs. Other solutions to bring balance to your concerns would be to draw back and placehold gear while developing those areas.. I recommend start requesting for them to develop these continents ASAP if you truly want to balance out Naves armor factors any further.

Thanks for your feedback, environment makes a difference that is why MCs use Meduli since the flat ground is good for horse fighters. Now look at my main point of why Armor tiers don't make any difference. Think of it this way. If i have 200hp and i wear steel armor and i take 20 damage from my opponents sword swing, but if i wear tungsteel i take 23 damage a sword swing. Then ultimately the math comes down to this. I can survive 10 Attacks of 20 damage a hit wearing my steel armor. Or i can survive 9 attacks in my Tung armor from 23 damage a hit. That is a 1 hit damage difference. Your individual player skill no matter how high your skill is or how low your skill is that is the difference 1 attack.