IMMEDIATE FEEDBACK on ARMOR! Update Armor Tiers before game release! A MUST READ to the serious player!!
- Thread starter PoisonArrows
- Start date
In fact we can see the problem with Bone Tissue in the Workbench quite easily just by comparing Bone Tissue to Wood. This is with Greywood, Firmwood, and Dapplewood. Even Greywood has almost half the durability of Bone Tissue, which takes significantly longer to acquire large amounts of. Emalj is even stronger than the Bone Tissue.
A poleaxe that is simply made out of Emalj/Leather/Emalj has 11.71 Blunt/25.36 Pierce/20 Slash.
A poleaxe that is simply made out of Emalj/Leather/Emalj has 11.71 Blunt/25.36 Pierce/20 Slash.
While you're at it make light/medium armors worth wearing. Its literally just a plate meta and always has been unless you use magic. The entire system needs an overhaul imo. VERY little diversity with so many materials in the game.
Wouldn't this be achievable by restricting plate armor to resources that take time to create (alloys) and that are also heavier (therefore those concerned about mobility start using medium armours?)
I’ve thought emalj is way over-used for a long time now, so I can’t help but agree with this thread. Wooden handles for things like axes/hammers/spears just don’t get used, which is ridiculous when wood should be the first choice material for that application. This is worse than the armour IMO. Emalj/enamel should be limited to knives like it is used IRL. The problem isn’t the stats or availability, it’s the unrealistic application due to the natural properties of the material. Which actually is the same problem with bone tissue armour. Decorative glass-based enamel could be used instead of dye on metal pieces, but that a completely different material produced in an industrial way, not a piece of tooth, and shouldn’t affect durability.
Henrik has made some comment more than once along the lines of “people say a specific material is OP in MO2 when it’s the same stats as MO1” and I really wonder if he was talking about emalj. I hope they take a second look at the crafting system and what material can be used where. One idea could be a durability multiple based on how much of a mat is used. Too much emalj would start to reduce durability as pinning it all together would create weak spots. This would affect armour as well, to make durability losses be so high that bone tissue armour disintegrates after a few good whacks with a steel sword.
I hate to derail but they have an analogous issue with food. They take raw values of ingredients and use those to calculate reserve gains, forgetting that no one uses those ingredients in those ways for very good simple practical reasons. These are systems that are almost there but not quite complete. Emalj handles are the spit roasted flour of weapon crafting.
Henrik has made some comment more than once along the lines of “people say a specific material is OP in MO2 when it’s the same stats as MO1” and I really wonder if he was talking about emalj. I hope they take a second look at the crafting system and what material can be used where. One idea could be a durability multiple based on how much of a mat is used. Too much emalj would start to reduce durability as pinning it all together would create weak spots. This would affect armour as well, to make durability losses be so high that bone tissue armour disintegrates after a few good whacks with a steel sword.
I hate to derail but they have an analogous issue with food. They take raw values of ingredients and use those to calculate reserve gains, forgetting that no one uses those ingredients in those ways for very good simple practical reasons. These are systems that are almost there but not quite complete. Emalj handles are the spit roasted flour of weapon crafting.
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I do not know the numbers difference between IB plate and steel plate or the highter tier metals for that matter. If the rumors on numbers quoted by the OP are somewhat correct, then I think there is a peoblem and very few will use high tier and gameplay enjoyment and variation will suffer for it.
The little use for light armors is also a problem imo.
I am afraid to suggest a simple solution, because time spent farming, mat drops, acess to spawns of double nodes, animals and extraction tools all go together in the final amount of time spent making high end gear. That time is the ultimate benchmark for pricing gear imo and somehow I think the viability of the gear should follow.
For light armor viability its equally complex but here it is about speed, stamina, mana regen and inventory capacity (for low str toons). I am not a fan of the many primary skill points and I think those are one of the many reasons no one is using light armors. Now, that quick fix is obviously off the table, so the only easy solution I dare to offer is to look into defense buffs + speed and stam nerfs for heavy metal plate and def nerfs + speed stam buffs for light armors. I am sure some pvp gamers know why this wont help.
I know nothing about pvp balance but my aesthetic sense is disturbed by the lack of variation in MO armor fashion these days.
The little use for light armors is also a problem imo.
I am afraid to suggest a simple solution, because time spent farming, mat drops, acess to spawns of double nodes, animals and extraction tools all go together in the final amount of time spent making high end gear. That time is the ultimate benchmark for pricing gear imo and somehow I think the viability of the gear should follow.
For light armor viability its equally complex but here it is about speed, stamina, mana regen and inventory capacity (for low str toons). I am not a fan of the many primary skill points and I think those are one of the many reasons no one is using light armors. Now, that quick fix is obviously off the table, so the only easy solution I dare to offer is to look into defense buffs + speed and stam nerfs for heavy metal plate and def nerfs + speed stam buffs for light armors. I am sure some pvp gamers know why this wont help.
I know nothing about pvp balance but my aesthetic sense is disturbed by the lack of variation in MO armor fashion these days.
I think SV wants to have every material have their spot in the meta with how things scale in effectiveness with their weight, but it ends up making people just pick the easiest one to gather at the moment.
I think a good step would be to spread their stats out more as a lot of materials are almost identical at the moment, at least the lighter materials. We could probably have a tiny bit more reward on the mats modifiers depending on how hard it is to gather. There is also a huge gap weight wise that could be filled between flake/emalj and jadeite/maalite/nyx weight.
I also wish the sliders we have in armor crafting also were viable somehow. At the moment there is no reason to use anything else than 100% mats on sliders. Could probably find a way to balance out some weight issues and add flexibility to the crafting by tweaking this system a bit.
So a couple of things:
1. The difference in defence from iron bone to steel is actually quite large, and as has been stated already the reason people don't use it often is due to the stamina regeneration penalties. The armor is indeed a lot better.
2. The difference between steel and tungsteel is also quite large, with tungsteel offering substantially more pierce defence.
3. Oghmium in MO1 when made in the Draconigena armatus style had almost 100% pierce defence, making longbow arrows hit you for zero or one damage.
In summary, the information you have received about how similar the damage mitigation is would appear to be incorrect.
With that said however, I fully support nerfing bone tissue and specifically mauls when made of these light materials, as they are the main offenders. No one is having problems with bone tissue swords or axes being too good.
1. The difference in defence from iron bone to steel is actually quite large, and as has been stated already the reason people don't use it often is due to the stamina regeneration penalties. The armor is indeed a lot better.
2. The difference between steel and tungsteel is also quite large, with tungsteel offering substantially more pierce defence.
3. Oghmium in MO1 when made in the Draconigena armatus style had almost 100% pierce defence, making longbow arrows hit you for zero or one damage.
In summary, the information you have received about how similar the damage mitigation is would appear to be incorrect.
With that said however, I fully support nerfing bone tissue and specifically mauls when made of these light materials, as they are the main offenders. No one is having problems with bone tissue swords or axes being too good.
For good players there is little point in wearing good armor because either they are in a small fight where the parry is super op, or they are getting zerged and need stamina, but getting cut down by numbers and magic where better armor won't save them.
I see members of bigger groups wear metal armor regularly though.
We need Purify potions in the worst way.
I see members of bigger groups wear metal armor regularly though.
We need Purify potions in the worst way.
The Workbench on MortalData is great for this. Take a look at this:
Emalj (Red) and Bone Tissue (light blue) is worse but not necessarily THAT much worse than Messing (Dark Blue) in a lot of cases. We can see that the easier to get metals like Steel and Messing while yes they are better, they weigh nearly or in fact more than twice as much as simple pig gear which to be honest is not exactly lacking in defense stats. In the case of Blunt defense, it's closer than it has any right to be. This isn't that much of an issue for Oghmir players who get traits that allow them to wear heavier armor but for all of the other races it's suicide to wear half a set of Steel or Messing.
Ikr there was so many cool mage armors from Mo1 tbh. And i agree i would like to see other armors being used. But unless other armors can use higher tiered materials then i am unsure how often we would see those armors used. I think Cosmoid and Pansar will be materials for light armor and medium armor and then we will see them used. I just wish Henrik would release some of this stuff sooner rather then later as Mo2 needs more then Mo1 did to be more successful. No one wants a half baked game in 2021.
Wow this idea actually makes sense. I was actually hoping they allow all armors to have any material. but if they keep the current system making plate armors be the only ones that use metal would solve half this problem.
bone has way too much defense per weight, the trade off is the durability which is an ancient calculation.
low tier materials like Bone Tissue and Emalj are on top of that too good because you can get decent armor power on any location at any time.
beside the bone nerf, i would like to see a buff for every metal under steel and a blunt buff for steel.
as a small side note, have you saw someone crafts a metal armor so he can eat more hits?! like its said metal has only the advantage that you can make use of your higher armor carry weight at a certain high threshold if you dont mind the higher stamina drain.
low tier materials like Bone Tissue and Emalj are on top of that too good because you can get decent armor power on any location at any time.
beside the bone nerf, i would like to see a buff for every metal under steel and a blunt buff for steel.
as a small side note, have you saw someone crafts a metal armor so he can eat more hits?! like its said metal has only the advantage that you can make use of your higher armor carry weight at a certain high threshold if you dont mind the higher stamina drain.
Yeah exactly where is the variation you can't call this the most bad ass hardcore pvp game ever if you don't even see anyone walking around with bad ass armor and weapons because everything is made out of emalji/bonetissue/ironbone or whatever else. In other MMOs the top players always walk around with bad ass looking gear. And no one wants to fight someone else over pig material weapons and armor. I get that this is Beta but people in 2021 have standards of game play these days, especially when a developer claims their game is the most hardcore pvp game out there. My favorite aspect of the game is that it is full loot, but right now full loot seems like the same as killing a pig or razorback or whatever for emalji. I want to see other armors and things of higher tiers and i want more content overall. We can't let the game release in this sad state or it will fail just like Mo1 did.
I guess I would like to see higher tier leathers and such. Perhaps it takes rare materials to refine it into something better than the trash quality leather we have now. I've said it a lot of times, but the meta has always been as simple as "whats your max armor weight". Then you use the heaviest materials to match that or you get a set that sits below the stamina penalty. I guess its just boring is all. I want more than just mana regen and stamina penalties to be the reason you choose to not wear the heaviest armor you can. I want some incentives to be more of a lightweight warrior. Less stam useage on swings, faster movement speed, bonus ranged weapon damage, etc. SOMETHING like that other than literally nothing.
That's exactly what i been trying to tell you guys, everyone is going on about weapons but the main eye catcher in most mmos is the armor and right now it is just embarrassing seeing everyone walking around in plate ironbone, plate emalji or whatever else. AND the WORST part is that there is almost NO difference between Higher Material Armors and Pig Material Armors. That is just disgusting... You can't call this the most Bad Ass Hardcore Game if there isn't anything hardcore about the armor.. No variation, no higher end gear no nothing. Because everyone already covered all the points i said that there basically isn't any better armor because you spend forever getting cronite or whatever the hell else to get a few extra defense points. That isn't bad ass. That isn't Hardcore. That is Softcore.
We need more areas to get these rarer materials too. Half the game is fighting over Tephra crater right now. I wouldn't be opposed to maybe 2 or 3 spots to get Tephra and other rare materials. In Mo1 Vadda had a hidden area to get Tephra that not many people knew about and Oghmium armor was still a rare sight to see.
If you are after what is the best weapon, currently i believe Skaddite Axe is the strongest weapon i have seen. Though id be open to hear others opinions.