I saw the fight: dex footman vs plate warr (Oghmir).

[Blackdoll]

It's not like I am criticizing Mortal 2. In my opinion, it's an extremely good MMORPG. As good as WoW - and I have told this for the first time since 20 years of playing games. Mortal 2 is the first game in my history that I find as good as WoW. it's a great achievement for you dear creators because WoW is a masterpiece.

This fight was unbalanced not because of damage but of healing possibility.
Who of you has ever seen someone healing themselves during a fight? I know it's just a game, just a fantasy game. But maybe all together we can build up a more balanced system working for everyone. Which is more natural, and more balanced referring to your skill, not gear.

Healing and bandages ofc, but out of combat, after the fight - as it is in reality. In the Middle Ages can you imagine knights bandaging themselves during the fight?
I have been dreaming since ever about the game that gives you fair play. That is why I love Call of Duty: BO2 and HARDCORE team death match. Masterpiece.


This game is harder than reality - because in reality if you get attacked you still are able to finish a fight with a stronger opponent by stabbing his head with the knife. If the knight was full plate immune to your sword you could easily run away then.
Here, if you have a basic set you cannot win because the difference in damage is too big, isn't it?

In the reality, if I have the basic sword available to anyone or an epic blade used by kings - both kill with the same efficiency in the hands of a skilled warrior.

 

[Emdash]

This fight was unbalanced not because of damage but of healing possibility.
Who of you has ever seen someone healing themselves during a fight?

Def am anti self heal, but bandaids MO1 style and I guess MO2 style are really cool. The whole corrupt/purify mechanic as well. I wish there was a healing spell that was HoT tho. That's one thing other comp games I've played had for magi, so you can pop a Hot on someone then focus elsewhere. Give em some regen yakno.

Pots DUMB. Blood Kua DUMB. Bandaids and magic, tho? People say you can kite into a bandaid on a veela, but you really can't, unless you totally juke the other person (prol have to miss about 2 swings,) so I mean you generally end up bandaging when you disengage or when you are hiding etc. Plus team fights, it makes it a bit different. I def agree w/ instant self heals being wack tho.

I think healing your horse while you are on it IS WACK. At the very least, you should be able to bandage your horse while you are on it, if they are gonna let you use magic haha. But yea, I don't dislike bandaids at all. I think it's a really cool mechanic. Pipes, pots, phish, ehhh. Also don't underestimate a Thur with styg, that is pretty massive healing.

 

[Blackdoll]

People say you can kite into a bandaid on a veela, but you really can't

Ofc, you can. There are a lot of movies on yt showing that. At that time (when he's running away) you can heal up yourself as well, but my thread is different.

No one ever in reality heals up himself during the fight. That is I love Call of Duty for - hardcore team deathmatches.
I dream about the fantasy Call of "Knighty" like Mortal 2, but... I dream only

 

[Jackdstripper]

MO1 had almost no self healing. You just had bandages and eventually potions (aside from hybrids having a small magic heal).

Since you could bandage while running, it made the fastest runners (vheelas) the most survivable race. Thry always had the option to disengage and heal on the run. It was OP and 2/3 of people were Vheelas, because if you couldn’t run at top speed you were dead.

What they did in MO 2, to try and help out other slower races, is give them ways to also survive longer. But how do you give a slow race survivability? A personal heal pot is one way. Besically thats what Ogmirs have. An hp potion that burns your reserves, so you cant keep drinking forever.

Thursars by the way also have a tone of self healing with their life steal clades.

Is this the best way to balance races? Hard to say. But i will say that race ratios in MO 2 are much more diverse than MO1( where everyone was either a Vheela or a Thursar), so sonething is working.

 

[Blackdoll]

But how do you give a slow race survivability?

A slow race can heal up at the same time as a fast race is doing that, can't it? You cannot cast spells while moving but you can bandage yourself

In Call of Duty, there are also fast and slow classes of soldiers and they do not have such a problem in this game. If you are fast or slow and have the top rank and achievements, you still can be killed by a random noob entering the game just by one shot.

In reality (and this game seems to rely very heavily on it), you can be also slow or fast but have you ever seen people or animals healing themselves during a fight?
Live or die. You have blocks to prevent attacks and keep your stamina on a high level, haven't you?

It's not I am against bandages. In my opinion, they destroy the balance while in combat mode and should be used only out of combat.

 

[poorconsumer]

gl finding your niche style, so many circumstances. i would say in the hands of a skilled warrior, a better weapon is way better to them so no, not same efficiency. good players with good weapons will take your soul lol

 

[Blackdoll]

not same efficiency.

You did not get what I meant. I mean that if you are stabbed in the head or heart with a basic weapon OR epic royal blade - you die in the same way.

If you fight knives with someone and have a knife for 100k $ it does not matter. Because a skilled warrior stabs you with a knife for 15$ and you die the same as it would be the most epic dagger.

 

[poorconsumer]

You did not get what I meant. I mean that if you are stabbed in the head or heart with a basic weapon OR epic royal blade - you die in the same way.

If you fight knives with someone and have a knife for 100k $ it does not matter. Because a skilled warrior stabs you with a knife for 15$ and you die the same as it would be the most epic dagger.

you're right i didn't get what you meant. you right. knife is knife is knife.

 

[Jackdstripper]

A slow race can heal up at the same time as a fast race is doing that, can't it? You cannot cast spells while moving but you can bandage yourself

In Call of Duty, there are also fast and slow classes of soldiers and they do not have such a problem in this game. If you are fast or slow and have the top rank and achievements, you still can be killed by a random noob entering the game just by one shot.

In reality (and this game seems to rely very heavily on it), you can be also slow or fast but have you ever seen people or animals healing themselves during a fight?
Live or die. You have blocks to prevent attacks and keep your stamina on a high level, haven't you?

It's not I am against bandages. In my opinion, they destroy the balance while in combat mode and should be used only out of combat.

It doesnt work like that. A fast race can heal on the run because they can avoid being hit as they are running away. All they have to do is put their weapon away, sprint and nobody can hit them (excluding ranged weapons). This allows for avoiding damage AND free bandaging on the run.

A slow race cannot as they cant get out of melee range, so they are forced to always have their weapon out cause otherwise they get smacked. There is no way for them to truly disengage from a melee fight. They can only hope that their enemy runs away otherwise they are forced to keep fighting. As long as you are in melee range you cant really bandage.


This is why its so hard to balance different running speeds. Any tome the fight isnt going your way you can just run away and reset the fight. Being able to run away is an incredible advantage in survivability.


I really try and stay away from “in reality” arguments because otherwise youd have to remove all magic and healing and taming and rezing, and it would become a Mount and Blade game.

 

[Blackdoll]

This is why its so hard to balance different running speeds.

You don't need to balance running speed because disbalance is not because of it.

so they are forced to always have their weapon out cause otherwise they get smacked.

It's not true. Running away DEX WARR has to swap its weapon with bandages so during this time a slow race can do the same. Heal up and swap a weapon again.

otherwise youd have to remove all magic and healing and taming and rezing

The game is for us, not us for the game. Magic can be treated as archery - as a ranged attack. What is the difference if you get attacked by an arrow or spell? We only need fair rules, fair for everyone.

Healing is fine, but not during a fight. You have blocks to prevent getting your STA lower.

 

[Jackdstripper]

You don't need to balance running speed because disbalance is not because of it.

It's not true. Running away DEX WARR has to swap its weapon with bandages so during this time a slow race can do the same. Heal up and swap a weapon again.

.

Im not sure exactly what your point is, but to bandage you have to put away your weapon and go through the bandaging animation. This takes a couple of seconds. You cant block while bandaging so you are vulnerable to getting hit. If you are in melee range your enemy will surely hit you as soon as he sees you putting away your weapon.


A fast character can use his speed to create some distance and avoid getting hit while runing away bandaging, also called kiting.

A slow character simply gets hit in the back if he tries to run away and bandage.

This is the advantage of a faster character.

 

[Kaemik]

I absolutely love games where you can self-heal mid combat and am instantly 1000% less interested in games that offer no option to do this.

That being said, it is a very powerful feature, and would not mind seeing it gated a bit harder so only dedicated healing builds and fighters that focus on self-heal builds have access. 100 points into anatomy and 0-100 into potion utilization are a very small price to pay for decent in-combat heals.

I feel like hybrids who focus down a specific path should be the ultimate self heal builds. Where in reality anatomy and potions are much more useful because you can use them while sprinting. One of the nice things about making self heals more magic dependent would be that the trade-off between mana regen and armor weight would be a REALLY significant consideration to a build like that. Where ohgs can just load in the armor as heavy as it will go and huff their pipes, bandage, and chug potions at full effect.

In terms of practical implementation I would consider something like this:

Make bandaging interruptible. If you take damage between putting it on and having the effect it does 25% the healing. Can't be used while sprinting.

Implement new magic heals that work while sprinting. Make these WAY less mana efficient than current heals.

I feel like this would make combat feel WAY more lethal without destroying the ability to be a self-heal heavy build if you focus on it more heavily. That being said, this will never happen, because it would be a huge nerf to foot fighters. And foot fighters control the meta in this game.

I also really would like to see psyche get something else such as increased received healing or shorter cast times. Both would really help the idea of needing a bit more investment to be a good self-heal build.

 

[Emdash]

Ofc, you can. There are a lot of movies on yt showing that. At that time (when he's running away) you can heal up yourself as well, but my thread is different.

No one ever in reality heals up himself during the fight. That is I love Call of Duty for - hardcore team deathmatches.
I dream about the fantasy Call of "Knighty" like Mortal 2, but... I dream only

If he moves back and you move back, you didn't kite someone, and they get to bandaid as well. Kiting into a bandaid would be like fighting then moving out and wrapping a bandaid, something you could almost do in MO1 at times. I can kite people into engaging them and getting away, but I gotta use most of my stam to get away THEN I may wrap a bandaid.

If you can move around people well and you get lucky, you can do it, but you still gotta make enough space to not get smashed in the beginning (most likely by causing a miss,) then you have to move around while you wrap it, then you have to wait til your wep comes out... and all that time you are vulnerable. If you can get your wep back out without getting hit then yea you did it.

Still think bandaid is OP. Forgot how fast they wrapped in MO1, maybe a bit too fast. If they wanna increase dmg back to MO1 style thoo we can do that! The rest of self heals (even magic but at least there's a spec for that) are not really balanced with the game I M O.

Also: black, you know you run significantly faster with your wep out than you do while wrapping a bandaid right? If you could somehow bandaid with your wep out, you could kite into bandaids all day.

 

[Blackdoll]

Still think bandaid is OP. Forgot how fast they wrapped in MO1, maybe a bit too fast.

Ofc, it is OP that is what I am saying. EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME IS NATURAL AND REALISTIC EXCEPT FIGHTING.
- noob cannot kill a well-geared player (in practice have to hit him 15-20x and veteran 3-5?)
- Bandits and players can survive several hits (stabs) from daggers straight to the head like Gods
- You can headshot some1 from the bow and he runs with an arrow in the head and still can kill you.
- If I have set on me everything drops (in case of death), but if I kill a geared bandit - cannot get his set.
- Healing is good for PvE, not for PvP. Causes disbalance and you can even bandage yourself while running
- Mages have additional extra healing from bandages in comparison to footmen but similar dmg.

I am looking for MMO which does not exist. I would like to see raw rules like in reality. One hit in the head - one frag like in Call of Duty. There are no animations showing the decapitation or crushing of the head (headshots) and if we had the criminal system in the USA like in this game we would be all dead sooner or later.

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

We need to talk about balancing Movement speed with plate armors, not self healing.
A naked mage should be able to get away from anyone in armor. A Ogh, thusar should no be able to sticky back with a spear and A Dex fighter should not run the same speed as a naked mage.

We can add limit thresh hold on armor so when you go over 8-10kg your total max speed should be reduced. We see this system in play for mana regen for the mages. But not for foot fighters what so ever.
It would work much like the swimming weight. So its based on total carry weight, and armor counts as 2x its weight.
With this we would hardly see a change in ogh, and thus speed. Because they have insane carry weight bc of high stg and con, and clades that increase it even more so.
It would only truly effect Dex fighters and Dagger mages. Because they dont have much carry weight. So the Dagger mage would be slowed down considerably, same as the Dex Fighter.
If this system was in place It would add more dynamics to the fights. Because you would have a mix of dex fighters in heavy armor, Being more of a 1st and 2nd line fighters. then you would also have dex fighters with max move speed in light armor running around full speed causing nuisance to the back lines, and running to finish people off.
Rather then have every dex fighter in full plate doing illogical stuff, like we currently see.

 

[Rhias]

I am looking for MMO which does not exist. I would like to see raw rules like in reality.

Damn, I would hate to create a new character once a day, because I died. Oh wait, actually I would need to wait 18 years before my character is decently viable.

 

[Emdash]

Ofc, it is OP that is what I am saying. EVERYTHING IN THIS GAME IS NATURAL AND REALISTIC EXCEPT FIGHTING.
- noob cannot kill a well-geared player (in practice have to hit him 15-20x and veteran 3-5?)
- Bandits and players can survive several hits (stabs) from daggers straight to the head like Gods
- You can headshot some1 from the bow and he runs with an arrow in the head and still can kill you.
- If I have set on me everything drops (in case of death), but if I kill a geared bandit - cannot get his set.
- Healing is good for PvE, not for PvP. Causes disbalance and you can even bandage yourself while running
- Mages have additional extra healing from bandages in comparison to footmen but similar dmg.

I am looking for MMO which does not exist. I would like to see raw rules like in reality. One hit in the head - one frag like in Call of Duty. There are no animations showing the decapitation or crushing of the head (headshots) and if we had the criminal system in the USA like in this game we would be all dead sooner or later.

Healing is fun when there is a lot going on, being able to get in and out of a big fight is fun. Picking out who is letting their health go too low or overextending, kinda slipping back to wrap your own bandaid.

I understand realism per se... but there was this game way back called Bushido Blade and it was combat w/ swords, etc, and you could just one shot someone brutally. Had some awesome combos you could do (switch stance... I esp remember switching stance to sword straight out then they had an upswing, that stuff was nasty, GUTTEM.) The dmg is TOO LOW, I agree, in general, but once you get like D level armor, talking about Bone Tissue level stuff, you can potentially take a set off someone, esp with your friends. Bone tissue plate will take longer to spam lore and run around in to level armor training than it will to get AS MUCH AS U WANT. Pigs and zombies = armor. Then you move to Emalji, then you get a mount and hunt some animal mobs. Plenty of animals in this game have crazy mats, just gotta get your lores above 70.

My main char is 165 hp and 10-11 wt armor. Wanna talk about how many hits, haha, vs a decent wep I take almost 50s, and I know how much I can take before I gotta jet. If someone throws a spell on me, I'm ded. Stuff is cut throat. Plus I'm super fast... dmg isn't great tho. Got a bow, too. If you wanna play hardcore, play hardcore... but yeah you aren't just gonna plug someone and kill em. However. there is def room for beating people w/ just about any armor that has 40 prots or more. Most pve is pretty easy w/ that as well.

I haven't seen someone in actual fighting (altho tbh I don't join in a lot of team fights) in steel in awhile! I've seen people wearing steel, but I haven't been in a fight w/ people geared to the teeth. Last steel set I saw was the one we took of Brig GY event nite 1. HI BRIG. You put on a steel set and stand around on high places in GY, we gonna find out how to take your stuff

Most people wear... Rep carp, some people wear pansar or HC. Those are v solid armors, but so is arthropod/crust carapace. You just need to look at the map and the distribution of mats and decide what kind of armor you want and where you wanna live, tbh haha. Molarium was meme armor in MO1. It was like 'the official armor of MO1' when I came in haha. Now, like I said, so many choices of armor that are 'good enough,' and SV doesn't have the foresight to lock heavy mats from lite armors even tho they force you to use heavy mats to make heavy armors. Nobody should be making carapace lite armor haha. But yea lore up Khurite Splint and animal materials and you will never be wanting for armor again.

As for the surgical kills yea you may be right, but IMO you might end up finding out a good wep that does 22~ dmg that you can use really well and is fast is better than one you can 3 shot someone with.

You wanna get good at the game? I will finance it. You can take Jeff Dumpster's Fab spin class. La Spin Fabuloso! There is def too much dmg mitigation esp from mid tier armors (imo,) but if you are completely ass out in terms of gear, yea that sucks. Like if you are in vendor armor with a sword made of bone, you're not gonna do well. Otherwise... you should be ok. Start in Duli, you can raw harvest Jade and turn that into weps and Jade, while it comes a little slow, is good enough to end someone's life easy.