Human Clade Rework: Radical Revision Madness Edition

[Jasa]

1. Diplomatic: Opportunistic Cannibalized and added to Diplomat.

2. Charismatic: No Change

3. Tactician: No Change

4. Shamanistic: No Change

5. Human Warcry: Regen 3 Health, Stamina & Mana every second for 30s to allies, does not stack.

6. Mental Power: Removes Debuffs and shields from magic by 20% for a time, Every Debuff removed in this way grants 5% Maximum Health, Stamina and Mana back to the user.

7. Rough Rider: Move to T3 Clade Section

8. Adaptable: Southerner & Northerner Combined

9. Soldier: No Change

10. Forceful: +4 Strength +5 to all weapon

11. Well Build: +2 Raw Strength

12. Striker: No Change

13. Robust: No Change

14. Hefty: +2 Raw Constitution

15. Big Boned: No Change

16. Athlete: No Change

17. Double Jointed: +2 Raw Dex

18. Kleptomaniac: No Change

19. Scholastic: +20% Reading Speed &+10 To Lore Skills (Cannibalized Educated)

20. Resolved: No Change

21. Strong-Willed: +2 Raw Psyche

22. Cleric: +4kg before mana regen is impacted* +2kg of Free Armor Weight

23. Sholar: No Changes

24. Intellectual: +2 Raw Intelligence

25. Erudite: +10 to all schools of Magic

26. Organized: +10 to Management

27. Artisan: No Change

28. Mathematician: No Changes

29. Master at Arms: +10 to all weapon skills

30. Warcaster: +4kg to armor weight before Mana Regen Impacted +5 to Armor Training

------------------

You have tipped my hand, many people made really good suggestions, and so I have decided to go to the extreme. I was weak then, and now I am insane. Lets go over the changes a bit.

RED: +5 & +10 to all weapon skills, humans are known for 'skill' this will allow humans to polesword and poleaxe their way to the heavens. Having so many points will allow humans to dip into many weapons, or specifically their desired weapons.

Orange: Humans are wonderful paladins, but we can make them better while also allowing footfighters to dip into the first one, Cleric for just 2% free armor weight and helps the lower end mages just wear slightly better armor with saving a few points. than Warcaster for the chonkers, you know who you are.

Green: Rejoice Humans, for I have solved our Mana Regen problems & Buffed humans to bounce back from Debuffs. Do you really want to blind that Footy? Do you really want to corrupt that hooman? Now you have to be afraid that we are going to knock out your debuffs and get our second wind. We now provide some mana regen for the paladins, some mana regen for other mages, stam regen so we can keep hunting, we are not sprinters like the veela but damn do we keep moving towards you. Fear my persistence for you shall not escape. The HP regen is a little kiss on top getting back 90 hp. I'd knock human warcry to a 5min cooldown.

Blue: I was heavily tempted to give us a bonkers clade, however I stopped myself since Warcry and Mental Power solves our mana regen problems at least in part. We will become the Omni mage +10 to all schools does not sound like a lot, but I assure you that mages will be saving more points in the long run. I am a Mage, I am in MANA, I know the struggle, and yet I had to temper myself.

What do you think everyone? Have I gone to far? Am I unhinged? Is this my final form? Thursars are next.

 

[Emdash]

"6. Mental Power: Removes Debuffs and shields from magic by 20% for a time, Every Debuff removed in this way grants 5% Maximum Health, Stamina and Mana back to the user. "

I really like strips in games. That's a solid strip and I support. Being able to have a strip spell and HoT spell would be good, too, but that's another...

Warcaster could be monsterOP but maybe not. I think humans are basically mounted at this point. Still think the dexes and strs are too low comparatively.

the mental power change, in theory, is interesting, as is war caster. The rest I don't know. I don't think it's going to fix the core problem except for helping people get more armor or regen on their MM hybrids.

 

[Domtomsen]

Wow, If you implement all of this then you will have Guys in Steel armor throwing arounds fulms and flamestrikes just for fun before going into fight with 22% melee dmg and speeds faster then a thursar. Id trade that for my Alvarin anytime.
I still dont think that my human is underpowered and i still dont get it why people are always saying that he is.
A human will never be as strong as a Thursar as tanky as an Oghmir or as fast as an Alvarin. Why should he be?
Kallard Human is like Thursar but less dmg but with slightly more speed and more magic resist.
Khurite is like Alvarin but slower yet way stronger.
Sidoyan makes a good fatmage. he does not get the tank clades from oghmir but gets 4kg extra armor with mana. well 2 int less i guess for the human.
And everyone of these builds get huge amount points as soon as they go mounted, which in my opinion is the real strengh of the human.
Mounted is kinda necesarry as long as you dont go some sort of hybrid.

 

[Emdash]

Wow, If you implement all of this then you will have Guys in Steel armor throwing arounds fulms and flamestrikes just for fun before going into fight with 22% melee dmg and speeds faster then a thursar. Id trade that for my Alvarin anytime.
I still dont think that my human is underpowered and i still dont get it why people are always saying that he is.
A human will never be as strong as a Thursar as tanky as an Oghmir or as fast as an Alvarin. Why should he be?
Kallard Human is like Thursar but less dmg but with slightly more speed and more magic resist.
Khurite is like Alvarin but slower yet way stronger.
Sidoyan makes a good fatmage. he does not get the tank clades from oghmir but gets 4kg extra armor with mana. well 2 int less i guess for the human.
And everyone of these builds get huge amount points as soon as they go mounted, which in my opinion is the real strengh of the human.
Mounted is kinda necesarry as long as you dont go some sort of hybrid.

The thing you're missing is that the curve is steep from 115-12(3) str. For dex, I can roll my sheev bulging and still be human fast (250.)

Those are the relevant atts holding human back.

 

[Hodo]

Wow, If you implement all of this then you will have Guys in Steel armor throwing arounds fulms and flamestrikes just for fun before going into fight with 22% melee dmg and speeds faster then a thursar. Id trade that for my Alvarin anytime.
I still dont think that my human is underpowered and i still dont get it why people are always saying that he is.
A human will never be as strong as a Thursar as tanky as an Oghmir or as fast as an Alvarin. Why should he be?
Kallard Human is like Thursar but less dmg but with slightly more speed and more magic resist.
Khurite is like Alvarin but slower yet way stronger.
Sidoyan makes a good fatmage. he does not get the tank clades from oghmir but gets 4kg extra armor with mana. well 2 int less i guess for the human.
And everyone of these builds get huge amount points as soon as they go mounted, which in my opinion is the real strengh of the human.
Mounted is kinda necesarry as long as you dont go some sort of hybrid.

Not sure where you are getting the Khurite is like Alvarin but slower yet way stronger, from.

Veela pure 31 years old with age clade has 88str before stout and 93str after. This doesnt include the archers shoulder and arm clades which give them an effective bow draw of 113. The dex is without a doubt FAR better than a Khurite with 121 fit, and 116 stout. Combat speed of 436 without clades and 447 with clades. Khurite 104str fit, 109 stout and 110dex down to 105 stout with a combat movement speed of 429 max. I wont go into the fact that a Khurite has LESS attribute points than the Veela does and that "big" strength advantage is laughable at best. 16pt difference when stout without archery clade bonuses, and a deficit of 4 pts when including archery for bows. Which is big when you're using longbows. And seeing as Asymetrical bows are a joke and pretty much everyone uses the same shortbows of 77-81str and 75-78 range. Your HUGE strength advantage means nothing.

The melee damage bonus of a Khurite peaks at 21% vs the Veela peak at 11%. But that ability to engage and disengage at will is the strength of the Veela. You can whittle down any opponent unlike the Khurite which is not fast enough to disengage, and not strong enough to stay in a fight and doesnt have enough attributes to be like other humans and hybrid or be a decent psy fighter like most Veelas. And doesnt have the strength in archery to be a better archer or mounted archer than an Alvarin.

Everyone pretty much agreed that Khurites are in a bad spot and need a buff.

 

[Domtomsen]

I never had so many problems when fighting alvarins. its nice that they run away, but they either get eaten by terrorbirds or gunned down by longbows. I have way more problems with thursar and kallards that just do overwhelming dmg. And 10% does not sound insignificant.
If i just wear heavy enough armor i always have to kinda laugh at alvarin dmg. Sure i dont do any 1vs1 fighting at all. But i think it would be the downfall for the game.

But i agree that Khurite should be able to use somewhat better bows. But that would mean you would need Racial clades for humans/strengh buff.

 

[Xronim]

Humans really need a change in their clade gifts, and most of these are pretty nifty and would give them the niche they need.

imo their stat caps also need work, why would the canon mage human have under 100 int and the tiny horse archers have way more con than the race of humans who walk around in metal plate armor 24/7.

one of the other issues is that oghmir are supposed to be slow but they can keep up with khurites, tindremenes and sarducaans since the dex gap is so slim that 422 (tind/sard) vs 418 blainn isnt even fair lmao.

 

[Jasa]

Humans really need a change in their clade gifts, and most of these are pretty nifty and would give them the niche they need.

imo their stat caps also need work, why would the canon mage human have under 100 int and the tiny horse archers have way more con than the race of humans who walk around in metal plate armor 24/7.

one of the other issues is that oghmir are supposed to be slow but they can keep up with khurites, tindremenes and sarducaans since the dex gap is so slim that 422 (tind/sard) vs 418 blainn isnt even fair lmao.

Our Niche would be outlasting other Clades. If we do not die immediately, we can persist. I was thinking about the strength of humans and why they would be the dominant race in most locations. Thursars win battles, Elfs can hunt us in Gerrilla warfare, Ogmir out tank us, humans do a little bit of everything but not good enough, than it hit me. Persistence and Endurance, if a human is not taken down, they will be back in combat.

Humans would be the true Hybrids, 10kg of armor weight before regen impact, making Hybrids the true healing class since you cannot dive them without a decent fight. Footfighters having more points to invest in other skills, human mages being able to invest in more schools. Then we can knock off debuffs and get a second wind, 2-3 debuffs means a 10% to 15% restock of all stats. The Regen lasting so long and only being 3 per tic would make it so I'm not going to outheal the damage of someone that is doing insane damage to me and humans while slower than Alvar will be able to run for longer than them. I do believe that the Warcry buffs need to last at Min 30s duration this includes alvarin.

Imo the changes I suggest would make you sit down and really think about the clades you pick up since all of them are just so good. Do you go for more points, or those clades you know will be needed for your build? What could you reasonably sacrifice, as a human right now, I can count easily the things that can go out the window, with these changes I'd beg henrik for more clade points over veterancy.

Also I 100% agree on the stat caps needing to be a bit higher. I was tempted to make it +4 raw on stats but the other changes were too impactful to even consider it.

 

[Emdash]

Not sure where you are getting the Khurite is like Alvarin but slower yet way stronger, from.

Veela pure 31 years old with age clade has 88str before stout and 93str after. This doesnt include the archers shoulder and arm clades which give them an effective bow draw of 113. The dex is without a doubt FAR better than a Khurite with 121 fit, and 116 stout. Combat speed of 436 without clades and 447 with clades. Khurite 104str fit, 109 stout and 110dex down to 105 stout with a combat movement speed of 429 max. I wont go into the fact that a Khurite has LESS attribute points than the Veela does and that "big" strength advantage is laughable at best. 16pt difference when stout without archery clade bonuses, and a deficit of 4 pts when including archery for bows. Which is big when you're using longbows. And seeing as Asymetrical bows are a joke and pretty much everyone uses the same shortbows of 77-81str and 75-78 range. Your HUGE strength advantage means nothing.

The melee damage bonus of a Khurite peaks at 21% vs the Veela peak at 11%. But that ability to engage and disengage at will is the strength of the Veela. You can whittle down any opponent unlike the Khurite which is not fast enough to disengage, and not strong enough to stay in a fight and doesnt have enough attributes to be like other humans and hybrid or be a decent psy fighter like most Veelas. And doesnt have the strength in archery to be a better archer or mounted archer than an Alvarin.

Everyone pretty much agreed that Khurites are in a bad spot and need a buff.

Age 26 Khurite is 24 dmg. LEAN Khurite is 20% dmg (full clade.) You do lose a lil going from 108-107 dex (1 speed,) but nothing fit or lean. You still get a good amount of HP even lean because of being big. Another huge bonus of the Khurite is that they can hit pretty well/have hp w/ human buffs and not disgustingly awful str at min height. Still the dmg bonus, to me, is fine, everything is fine. It's just the speed.

Tindrem is tailor made for hybrid. That was arguably the class they decided to focus on because that was the only thing people rolled other than Khur after dex changes (of humans, maybe Kallards, but I mean more mobile classes.)

Sardu should get more int, psyche, and dex cuz they are just washed out. They don't even have more con than a Sido anymore. Sido keeps int and str, high str but not as high as kallard (why should they be equal, it's stupid.)

 

[Emdash]

Humans would be the true Hybrids

I'd prol run a Khur hybrid right now if they had a lot more points haha.

Also, the changes would make you sit down, is funny because it reminds me of when humans were shammin mid battle.

Your changes might be impactful more overall, but first you have to get them into the realm of playability. I mean, if they get the necessary speed for fast and str for strong, they might not need as much adjusting.

 

[Jasa]

I'd prol run a Khur hybrid right now if they had a lot more points haha.

Also, the changes would make you sit down, is funny because it reminds me of when humans were shammin mid battle.

Your changes might be impactful more overall, but first you have to get them into the realm of playability. I mean, if they get the necessary speed for fast and str for strong, they might not need as much adjusting.

I think that trying to encroach on the other clades playstyles is less about what humans are. We can get close enough with mid maxing though should never reach them in terms of power. These changes are more to give humans a niche rather than try and be a Alvarin, Thursar or Ogmir.

Khurs do need a buff.

Though I do not see how my changes would make humans sit down? If you are able to regen 3 hp/mana/stamina than you can stay standing or sit down to get that buff to shamanistic humans may be able to veto out of battle sit down and be back in the fight sooner than others but getting that opportunity would be as rare as it is now.

 

[Emdash]

I think that trying to encroach on the other clades playstyles is less about what humans are. We can get close enough with mid maxing though should never reach them in terms of power. These changes are more to give humans a niche rather than try and be a Alvarin, Thursar or Ogmir.

Khurs do need a buff.

Though I do not see how my changes would make humans sit down? If you are able to regen 3 hp/mana/stamina than you can stay standing or sit down to get that buff to shamanistic humans may be able to veto out of battle sit down and be back in the fight sooner than others but getting that opportunity would be as rare as it is now.

its just too much that they are mostly under 100 dex or slightly over. youd get better mileage out of fixing that first. 6 armor wt is really good already. its just their trash caps.

i too want a niche and id even like a pie slice of clade to be race based.

Edit: wrote this on ipad. Hope it's comprehensible.