Human Clade rebalance suggestion

[Komodor]

Im my opinion, at this moment, human race is weak and under-represented outside new player sphere. It has no identity like the 3 other races. Its not even universal, because its just underwhelming in every department.
Oghmirs clade gifts orbit around tankiness and metallurgy; Thursars aroud defensive and aggresive combat; Alvarins around swiftness, hunting and alchemy. Humans main selling point is discount at vendors and "more" skillpoints, which is not even true. They are weak in magic compared to oghmirs and alvarins, they are slow and they are the worst in combat.
My suggestion is to give human race an identity like no other race. A true magery archetype, which could be accomplished by few simple tweaks.

1. First of bake some attributes adding gifts together to make space for more interesting things. 12 identical placeholders is too much.
2. Double "Cleric" clade gift same way oghmirs have armor, and buff it by 1. It would end as 2x 3kg to mana regen, so 4 + 3 + 3, giving 10 armor weight of no mana regen penalty.
3. Completely new passive clade gift "Mastery" that allow humans to cast with weapons out. Or like Serverus suggested, cast with free hand while wielding 1h weapon.

It would bring new original archetype to the game, something between hybrid and paladin playstyle. Access to medium/heavy armors as a paladin would help with poor survivabilty as humans don't have any defensive perks and have low Health Pool. Make humans at least decent in anything.

 

[Tzone]

Humans are the weakest of the clades in PvP. The data however shows them being the most played race and by a decent amount.

Hopefully Henrik realize there is context to a lot of the data and not to just balance just based on data.

Humans are very RP favorited and have good crafting clades. Along with a lot of people not understanding or being at high enought PvP prowess for being a bad clade to matter.
Ogh is just so good compared to all the clades. Veela is better in some scenarios then ogh. Thursar is not that behind Ogh in the same scenarios that ogh is best in.

Humans need a little bit of a buff to be not too far behind Ogh/Thursar.

 

[Teknique]

A cool clade would be gain mana equal to 50% of your strength, or 25% you get the point.

 

[Woody]

Humans arent meant to be a min max clade therefore there will obviously always be better choices for pvp in the other clades when it comes to a single role. This is intentional. Their strength comes in the form of build flexibility and being able to hybrid better than other clades and therein lies their strength.

Not to mention as the game adds more skills, build options and especially magic, humans are only going to get better.

That said, I dont disagree that their clade gift choices arent as interesting as other clades. They certainly are very, vanilla.

 

[Piet]

Human's are awesome and very strong. The strongest for hybrid. They have amazing for damage bonus, solid speed, self purify, and the most attribute points by far. You want to add on top of that already very very strong race an insanely broken skill like that which would make it so the human could have hybrid regen in heavy plate? Everyone would play that because it be broken af.

 

[ArcaneConsular]

That faster reading speed is their main perk imo

 

[Xronim]

The charismatic and standing gifts are worthless trash, and cleric is undertuned, as well as having 2 temperature related gifts while Thursar has that merged into 1 gift. Some of their bigger issues are underpowered ancestries themselves like Sidoian and Khurite which gimp characters more than they adjust them to certain stat spreads. I have been playing a mixed Sarducaan throughout my time playing and find the utility of it great for teamplay but in a 1v1 perspective it obviously flops to Oghmir and Thursar. I would argue that Oghmir are extremely overtuned if theyre not even 1% slower than most Humans and Thursar builds (417 speed vs 420) when their speed is supposed to the the lowest point of the race.

The active abilities of the other 3 clades are all strong and serve purposes while Humans only get a self cleanse and a tiny magic warcry, Humans could benefit from having 1-2 more actives that might be magic related.

I still see far more Alvarin in both haven, meduli and tindrem than any Humans, and alot of Oghmir when fighting particular guilds on roams, not sure where human being the most played is when I rarely ever see humans, I know the hurt sounds just from hitting various people enough.

 

[WolfAchilles]

Foot mage I think is the only role where there is really no debate for what clade is best. There are arguments for three of the four clades for foot fighter, mounted combat and archery also have a few different options. It would be cool to see another kind of foot mage.
Casting with your weapon out sounds pretty OP to me, but we could see how it goes as it would only really change hybrid players. I like the idea of having double cleric like the oghmir have double armor weight, that sounds like a good way to make a new definable playstyle. I'd really like to see human mages be better. Also, I think human hybrids are more fun to play against than alvarin hybrids. I'd love to see more human hybrids around.

 

[Tashka]

Dunno. Humans don't have that many good PvP gifts but they get QoL features many are willing to give up orghmir's pipe for.

Increased standing gain? Surely thursar is great for PvP but if they want to utilize that greateness they better move to lawless right away, while full Kallard can make a living praying on newbies in GY and still live next door to you in a guarded town.

50% less damage to allies - immensely useful in group fights especially for inexperienced players.

50 discount points in mounted skills, and 20 on top for ecumenical? Guess waht, 70 points to throw in whatever luxury skill i like!

Human is a very strong pick in a game that only allows one character per account, and there will be more of them on release. The only thing that's really bad about human clade is khurite. Literally never seen a khurite since i started playing. Pointless and hated by the devs just like their capital.

 

[pakostnyi]

mages.... mages... mages... BUT what about melee and archery gifts for human? Why Khurite not MA and dont have many str? Because all lore and arts Khurite mounted archer. I dont undestand why Devs hate Khurite clade.

And we need separate gifts for each clade, not race. Tinfremine, Kallard, Sheevra, Veela, Blaine etc. they must have unique gifts.

 

[Serverus]

Im my opinion, at this moment, human race is weak and under-represented outside new player sphere. It has no identity like the 3 other races. Its not even universal, because its just underwhelming in every department.
Oghmirs clade gifts orbit around tankiness and metallurgy; Thursars aroud defensive and aggresive combat; Alvarins around swiftness, hunting and alchemy. Humans main selling point is discount at vendors and "more" skillpoints, which is not even true. They are weak in magic compared to oghmirs and alvarins, they are slow and they are the worst in combat.
My suggestion is to give human race an identity like no other race. A true magery archetype, which could be accomplished by few simple tweaks.

1. First of bake some attributes adding gifts together to make space for more interesting things. 12 identical placeholders is too much.
2. Double "Cleric" clade gift same way oghmirs have armor, and buff it by 1. It would end as 2x 3kg to mana regen, so 4 + 3 + 3, giving 10 armor weight of no mana regen penalty.
3. Completely new passive clade gift "Mastery" that allow humans to cast with weapons out.

It would bring new original archetype to the game, something between hybrid and paladin playstyle. Access to medium/heavy armors as a paladin would help with poor survivabilty as humans don't have any defensive perks and have low Health Pool. Make humans at least decent in anything.

Very interesting. The double "Cleric" idea is a nice idea. I am not sure about casting mastery with weapons out. I like that you shealthe your weapon when casting. Maybe one hand casting which may be weaker than two hand casting, this way you can cast and still wield your blade, but your spell will be halfed. That would be kind a cool.

 

[Tzone]

Humans are objectively the worst clade.

They might be one of the only viable hybrids but that doesn't mean hybrids are good. Hybrids can do fine in smaller scale ratting fights when you might not have a full mage or full fighter.

People just dont understand the meta which means the data will be clouded. Ogh, and thursar are great to crutch on, with ogh being more crutchable. Veela allows players to just leave if they dont feel the fight is going well for them. Humans dont have any crutches

Humans have good QoL but thats no reason to make them so poor meta wise to the point there isnt a reason to play them if you are serious.

Humans are relegated to being hybrids and mounted. Hybrid has a small niche it can fill but is not meta at all.

 

[Komodor]

Maybe one hand casting which may be weaker than two hand casting, this way you can cast and still wield your blade, but your spell will be halfed. That would be kind a cool.

Sounds super cool. Imagine human paladin in heavy armor, wieling 1h mace and casting spells with other hand. I'd play it

 

[ArcaneConsular]

The charismatic and standing gifts are worthless trash, and cleric is undertuned, as well as having 2 temperature related gifts while Thursar has that merged into 1 gift. Some of their bigger issues are underpowered ancestries themselves like Sidoian and Khurite which gimp characters more than they adjust them to certain stat spreads. I have been playing a mixed Sarducaan throughout my time playing and find the utility of it great for teamplay but in a 1v1 perspective it obviously flops to Oghmir and Thursar. I would argue that Oghmir are extremely overtuned if theyre not even 1% slower than most Humans and Thursar builds (417 speed vs 420) when their speed is supposed to the the lowest point of the race.

The active abilities of the other 3 clades are all strong and serve purposes while Humans only get a self cleanse and a tiny magic warcry, Humans could benefit from having 1-2 more actives that might be magic related.

I still see far more Alvarin in both haven, meduli and tindrem than any Humans, and alot of Oghmir when fighting particular guilds on roams, not sure where human being the most played is when I rarely ever see humans, I know the hurt sounds just from hitting various people enough.

Humans are seen a lot in stress tests because new players pick them. Everyone that's hardcore and serious about the game usually doesn't play them

 

[pooternackle]

Foot mage I think is the only role where there is really no debate for what clade is best. There are arguments for three of the four clades for foot fighter, mounted combat and archery also have a few different options. It would be cool to see another kind of foot mage.
Casting with your weapon out sounds pretty OP to me, but we could see how it goes as it would only really change hybrid players. I like the idea of having double cleric like the oghmir have double armor weight, that sounds like a good way to make a new definable playstyle. I'd really like to see human mages be better. Also, I think human hybrids are more fun to play against than alvarin hybrids. I'd love to see more human hybrids around.

With mounted mage changes, there is some nuance/debate. Sidoian fat mage is faster than oghmir with slightly less damage and less tankiness. Alvarin fat mage is faster than both oghmir and sidoian but less damage and less tanky than both. All three are viable for different reasons.

Sidoian dex foot mages are also viable, but their damage gains compared to alvarin foot mages are definitely outclassed by alvarin speed advantage.

 

[Tzone]

With mounted mage changes, there is some nuance/debate. Sidoian fat mage is faster than oghmir with slightly less damage and less tankiness. Alvarin fat mage is faster than both oghmir and sidoian but less damage and less tanky than both. All three are viable for different reasons.

Sidoian dex foot mages are also viable, but their damage gains compared to alvarin foot mages are definitely outclassed by alvarin speed advantage.

Mage = buldging sheeva, or obese mounted ogh
No room for a human mage, you need speed to play mage effectively. You should never be getting hit as a mage in PvP.

Human mage is not viable meta wise. Human Hybrid or paladin is the only viable foot playsyle for human and even then its not good. You have to play much better then other classes and have no crutches. A mage is better at magic then a hybrid and fighter is better at fighting then a hybrid. Only a very narrow niche of small groups is hybrid viable and thats the humans only meta that it fits in.

 

[pooternackle]

Mage = buldging sheeva, or obese mounted ogh
No room for a human mage, you need speed to play mage effectively. You should never be getting hit as a mage in PvP.

Human mage is not viable meta wise. Human Hybrid or paladin is the only viable foot playsyle for human and even then its not good. You have to play much better then other classes and have no crutches. A mage is better at magic then a hybrid and fighter is better at fighting then a hybrid. Only a very narrow niche of small groups is hybrid viable and thats the humans only meta that it fits in.

Many foot fighters can catch a bulging sheev, or at least not let it gain enough distance to do damage. Bony sidoian goes just as fast but does more damage than bulging sheev (clade skills change this up a bit, but not much). Skinny sidoian goes faster (absent temporary speed boost from clade) and does the same damage. Only serious downside is lower health, but as you say, a foot mage shouldn’t be getting hit anyways.

 

[Emdash]

Humans are the weakest of the clades in PvP. The data however shows them being the most played race and by a decent amount.

Hopefully Henrik realize there is context to a lot of the data and not to just balance just based on data.

Humans are very RP favorited and have good crafting clades. Along with a lot of people not understanding or being at high enought PvP prowess for being a bad clade to matter.
Ogh is just so good compared to all the clades. Veela is better in some scenarios then ogh. Thursar is not that behind Ogh in the same scenarios that ogh is best in.

Humans need a little bit of a buff to be not too far behind Ogh/Thursar.

There need to be more crafting buff, but I'm cool with speccing human. It sucks because I'd rather be an elf, but humans are ALMOST as they should be for crafting, that lore stuff helps a lot. I'm runnin a char w/ lol... 110 str, 94/95 dex, 107 con, 80 int and 10 psyche. Can do a lot. Was MA/MC and crafter but I duno how I'm feeling MC. All the old heavy axes are too heavy. :*( But I think I'll roll human at release for crafts. They aren't trash in pvp if you know how to build it. They can gain a lot thru some experimentation, even tho in each meta slot they are objectively worse. I def miss the footspeed of a lean veela, haha. The whole "don't worry, I got this" part. That's why I really wish they would give us 2 slots to spec a crafting oriented character, probably a human cuz even w/ refining gifts I dunno if dwarf is as good of a crafter. And they can actually be on the ground. Then let us roll a more fighting oriented char. I think more Thursars would be legit because they are monster buffed, but it's hard to spec one cuz it's like well I wanna craft something. I would pound ass with a heavy dmg bonus Thur. I'd just be smashing people's parries, wouldn't care if my hitbox was huge.

I don't think it's fair to make people spec into pure fighter or crafter. Even putting 50 int in for human and +50 clade is good. Then +10 to all lores. +15 All the riding skills. It all works out, more or less, but I'd just like to see a little more crafting. If we got another extra skill like +150 or something I think it would be perfect... or that's what would let me perfectly spec my build!

So I mean in a way human is set up for making runs (MA/MC)/crafting. But like I said I'm not feeling MC. But I'm gonna have to start parrying, so I might have to use a lance, too. :*( Ogh is gonna get more armor wt, but as a human I can take taming, some CC (which will eventually matter), MA/MC, etc. Be completely self sufficient, at least in terms of craft and pvp. It's just "I'm just a dude." or in my chars' case, she's just a chic. But buff the crafting imo. I think human can be good enough to fight. I think their purify mind thing is prol pretty good. I feel like a lot of shit hasn't even been figured out in terms of what the actual meta will be at release when there are way more people playing. being able to be mounted will be good tho. If humans had a MA/MC buff like +25 to archery (one) +25 to lances (the other) that would spec them out even harder.

I do think SV is confused, and it mostly has to do with the fact that humans are so diverse. They really do need per race clade gifts. And then just let you pick two incase you spec all four. But I still think 'townsperson' is a legit role in the game. Plus humans will be able to PK more w/ rep haha. Supposedly. If they flesh the rep system humans are basically like 2x as reppy and 2x as fast at reading. So it ain't too bad.

 

[Serverus]

The only issue I have with the human clade gifts are that they are all defensive. Maybe give the humans a few offensive clade gifts. Since the Thursar and Oghmir get so many its hard to choose from. A proper balance would be giving humans some more clade options.

Ideas....
Offensive Clade: Bonus 10 damage when using a sword, spear or dagger
Offensive Clade: Poison damage upon first melee attack (not anything too crazy maybe like a poisonous corruption 5hp damage per second for five seconds)

 

[Komodor]

I do think SV is confused, and it mostly has to do with the fact that humans are so diverse.

They are far more than diverse. They are diluted.