How does the Murder Count system work?

[Theox]

Hey,

so how does this system work?

I kill (or just hit one who dies later?) someone, he reports me at a priest and my count increases.
At 5 i'm a so called "criminal".

At this point every guard in any town will attack me on sight? Or does this mean players can attack me in town and guards look away? And if i fight back guards attack me?

What if some Guild attacks me with 3 ppl, i defend myself and make a firsthit on 2 of them. If i kill all 3, 2 of them can report me for murder?

Seems quite complicated, i need some enlightment.

Thanks

 

[Kelzyr]

I kill (or just hit one who dies later?) someone, he reports me at a priest and my count increases.

Hopefully in the future there will be some fixes to when and where you can report a murder (see other threads for people's suggestions)

At this point every guard in any town will attack me on sight? Or does this mean players can attack me in town and guards look away? And if i fight back guards attack me?

If you have 5 murder counts you won't get attacked by guards unless your reputation with the respective faction is low enough. Other players have free reign to attack you in town and the guards will look the other way (but they'll need to know you're a murderer or risk hitting an innocent). If they hit you first you are free to defend yourself...just be careful...you could hit someone who hasn't attacked you yet and then the guards will attack you.

What if some Guild attacks me with 3 ppl, i defend myself and make a firsthit on 2 of them. If i kill all 3, 2 of them can report me for murder?

Currently you can only defend yourself against someone who has hit you first. If you kill all 3 and you hit 2 before they hit you...yes you'll get 2 murder counts (a huge flaw in the system if you ask me)
I've considered the idea of an entire guild turning 'local grey' if one of their members initiates combat, but I haven't posted it anywhere

 

[Jackdstripper]

Getting murder counts does lower your reputation with the local guards though. So if you get enough murder counts you will be attacked on sight by guards of that particular faction, at least until you can farm your rep back up.
basically they made the red flag hidden and localized to the specific faction.

frankly this new system is even more confusing than the old system. Sure, the old system had flaws, but making it more confusing and convoluted isn’t the answer.

 

[Theox]

Alright thanks guys.

I've considered the idea of an entire guild turning 'local grey' if one of their members initiates combat, but I haven't posted it anywhere

This sounds like a good idea.

 

[Kelzyr]

Getting murder counts does lower your reputation with the local guards though. So if you get enough murder counts you will be attacked on sight by guards of that particular faction, at least until you can farm your rep back up.
basically they made the red flag hidden and localized to the specific faction.

frankly this new system is even more confusing than the old system. Sure, the old system had flaws, but making it more confusing and convoluted isn’t the answer.

I don't think the new system is that confusing....it may be harder to determine who is red/blue like before...but that's about all that is 'confusing'. I agree that the rep system needs to be explained more to newer players, but once you know, you know.

I noted this in another thread, but I think its valid to want a change in name color if someone is currently flagged as a criminal (or 'local grey') so it is easier to determine if someone is able to be attacked.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Alright thanks guys.


This sounds like a good idea.

Not a good idea. This will only increase blue blocking ten folds as people will intentionally start fights to then have their non guilded friends blue block to turn entire guilds local gray. You’d be minding your own business afk at the bank and not even realize you got turned gray and have everyone jump you and kill you just cause they can. Absolutely horrible idea.

 

[Kelzyr]

Not a good idea. This will only increase blue blocking ten folds as people will intentionally start fights to then have their non guilded friends blue block to turn entire guilds local gray. You’d be minding your own business afk at the bank and not even realize you got turned gray and have everyone jump you and kill you just cause they can. Absolutely horrible idea.

The local grey would only apply to the random blue blocker who got hit....the entire guild wouldn't turn criminal. Do you not remember how the 'local grey' system worked?

Guild1 is fighting Guild2 in town (war). A random blue person gets hit by Guild1. Random blue person has free reign to hit any member of Guild1 without being a criminal.

A system like this would also avoid the following situation.
Guild1's party attacks a player in Guild2's party, Guild2 retaliates and kills all of Guild1. 3 mages in Guild1 didn't attack (or go local grey) to 2 of the players in Guild2 who killed said mages...these players now get murder counts when defending their party.

 

[Jackdstripper]

I don't think the new system is that confusing....it may be harder to determine who is red/blue like before...but that's about all that is 'confusing'. I agree that the rep system needs to be explained more to newer players, but once you know, you know.

I noted this in another thread, but I think its valid to want a change in name color if someone is currently flagged as a criminal (or 'local grey') so it is easier to determine if someone is able to be attacked.

it is more confusing because you can’t tell out in the world anymore who are player killers and who aren’t. No more flags. This gives player killers all the advantage as you can no longer tell them apart from a distance. You besically have to wait and see if they attack you or not. Before, you saw a red flag and you stayed clear. Now you pretty much have to wait and see if they hit you. This swings all the advantage to player killers, and leaves lawful players always unsure. It’s it more complicated.

 

[Kelzyr]

it is more confusing because you can’t tell out in the world anymore who are player killers and who aren’t. No more flags. This gives player killers all the advantage as you can no longer tell them apart from a distance. You besically have to wait and see if they attack you or not. Before, you saw a red flag and you stayed clear. Now you pretty much have to wait and see if they hit you. This swings all the advantage to player killers, and leaves lawful players always unsure. It’s it more complicated.

It requires players to have more knowledge of which guilds are RPK/murder guilds or not. If you don't have the knowledge then just steer clear of everyone. It may be more difficult than just seeing the color, but its not like knowing is impossible without the old system.

And if you were close enough to see the red flag they'd be attacking you anyways. Bad point IMO.

 

[Jackdstripper]

The local grey would only apply to the random blue blocker who got hit....the entire guild wouldn't turn criminal. Do you not remember how the 'local grey' system worked?

Guild1 is fighting Guild2 in town (war). A random blue person gets hit by Guild1. Random blue person has free reign to hit any member of Guild1 without being a criminal.

A system like this would also avoid the following situation.
Guild1's party attacks a player in Guild2's party, Guild2 retaliates and kills all of Guild1. 3 mages in Guild1 didn't attack (or go local grey) to 2 of the players in Guild2 who killed said mages...these players now get murder counts when defending their party.

And how does the random guild member that just turned local gray for said blue blocker, know who this guy is (he still looks blue) ? Especially if that guild member isn’t even close to or involved in the original altercation.

the whole thing is just ridiculously complicated just fix a complication of an already complicated system.

 

[Jackdstripper]

It requires players to have more knowledge of which guilds are RPK/murder guilds or not. If you don't have the knowledge then just steer clear of everyone. It may be more difficult than just seeing the color, but its not like knowing is impossible without the old system.

And if you were close enough to see the red flag they'd be attacking you anyways. Bad point IMO.

You can’t know every person on the server and what current guild they are in. Also people can just turn their tags off.

also not true. I’ve avoided red foot groups countless times in MO1.

 

[Kelzyr]

You can’t know every person on the server and what currntnguild they are in. Also people can just turn their tags off.

also not true. I’ve avoided red foot groups countless times in MO1.

I'd suggest not letting people turn off their tag...If you're in the guild you should represent it. Not sure what the point of not having your tag off is...unless you're doing shady shit.

I think your points are moot. If its a foot group I assume you got away because you are on a mount.....I'm sure the same would apply here especially with the speed changes. Why would you run into the middle of a foot group in the first place....blue or otherwise?

 

[Jackdstripper]

I'd suggest not letting people turn off their tag...If you're in the guild you should represent it. Not sure what the point of not having your tag off is...unless you're doing shady shit.

I think your points are moot. If its a foot group I assume you got away because you are on a mount.....I'm sure the same would apply here especially with the speed changes. Why would you run into the middle of a foot group in the first place....blue or otherwise?

You assume a lot of things that aren’t true. You could easily spot a red group sitting outside of town and choose a dif route or just don’t go out. Now you just don’t know. Like I said, this system works all in favour of player killers and makes life harder for law abiding players.

 

[Kelzyr]

And how does the random guild member that just turned local gray for said blue blocker, know who this guy is (he still looks blue) ? Especially if that guild member isn’t even close to or involved in the original altercation.

the whole thing is just ridiculously complicated just fix a complication of an already complicated system.

Either I'm not explaining myself well or you're not understanding me.

In this case a random guild member wouldn't know...and I think that's an acceptable side effect. If the guild member who hit the blue doesn't relay that info to the rest of the guild...that's their problem IMO.

 

[Kelzyr]

You assume a lot of things that aren’t true. You could easily spot a red group sitting outside of town and choose a dif route or just don’t go out. Now you just don’t know. Like I said, this system works all in favour of player killers and makes life harder for law abiding players.

Yes, there are going to be some situations that it will give the murdering guilds the advantage, especially for someone who has no knowledge of guilds/bands of red players. I just think the system isn't as hard as you make it out to be.

 

[Jackdstripper]

Either I'm not explaining myself well or you're not understanding me.

In this case a random guild member wouldn't know...and I think that's an acceptable side effect. If the guild member who hit the blue doesn't relay that info to the rest of the guild...that's their problem IMO.

This is nothing but a greefing tool. Not knowing is not an acceptable mechanic. Now I know you are just trolling.

 

[Kelzyr]

This is nothing but a greefing tool. Not knowing is not an acceptable mechanic. Now I know you are just trolling.

I'm not trolling but you can think that way if you'd like. If we were in spoken comms I'm sure I would be able to explain it in a way that would be more acceptable yet here we are in text.

I can explain away most of the griefing tactics you think arise from a system like this.

 

[Kelzyr]

Also this blue blocking scenario would only really arise when fighting in towns...and if you're war-fighting in town and don't have the 'no blue blocking' option turned on you're kinda dumb IMO.

 

[Eldrath]

The standing system seems unfinished. It also needs to be explained properly by the developers.

Flagging has a lot of bugs and weird exploits. Casting fulmination on someone does not turn you grey till you do damage. Someone shot my horse while I was blue and he did not get a criminal flag, but when I retaliate I got one.

The current state is worse than it was in MO1. It needs serious work.

Furthermore, I consider that flagging must be removed.