How Do We Fix The Economy(/Game)?

[Gulith]

none of you know the amount of duped gold that hasn't been removed from the game already ... why do you keep up with this fantasy?
just because a few traders are buying all the 1000g books to sell them 4000g?
Don't you see these books are not really selling fast AT ALL?
Or is it due to the fact that not enough people farm these books?

 

[Gulith]

However to have a real economy, you have to have limited resources and cyclical shortages ... for now resources are infinite (or not that hard to stack), and npc buys everything back ... so it's impossible to have a real economy.
but again, not many games have a solid economy, not based on pure inflation.

 

[MolagAmur]

Can't be fixed until Star Vault has the ability to track duped items and gold. They never have had that ability even though they claim to. They can ban cheap accounts all day long, but they are just replaced by another to dupe even more.

I know people who have duped. I know people who are still duping. None of the items were taken away.

Its the sad reality. Until they can track these people and items, even a wipe won't help.

 

[Emdash]

The realistic goal for SV should be that the game is

accessible to anyone who wants to put in the effort. Gains should be multiplied by how 'well oiled' the machine is, not hard multiply like zerg bosses or fluxfarm. Big problem.

They do need to add fire arrows, though. I was just thinking, again, how it'd be nice to roast some marshmallows and clear out some tc.

 

[Kaquenqos]

I think it's possible that, if the sandbox mechanics behind PKing, PvP, TC, wardecs & sieges actually work well and create a fun PvP endgame, fixing the economy might not be a major issue. My impression is that, if the game is active with 2k+ people goods will be in such constant flux, and gold easy enough to farm, that most guilds will probably be able to outfit their members in competitive gear almost indefinitely.

If that's not the case, at that point, barring a server wipe, maybe making some of the higher tier metals easier to obtain or just breaking the economy for everyone so everyone has ample access to high end gear would be a good idea... Otherwise, it's hard to say, but, yeah, people who got away with duping & exploits(that aren't exploits, but aren't intended, just don't worry about it it's gonna be patched out once test guys get rich) might be at an unfair advantage, ruin the competitive nature, and have the PvP dynamic fail in spite of things working as intended.

At that point, having PvP and/or PvE related turn-ins that reward you with x amount of ingots/other resources, or even straight up sets of gear, weapons or customizable good trinkets, would be another option. In fact, I think faction reward stuff like this would be a good way to create a more fun gameplay loop either way-- provided that they are not so easy to farm that it causes people to stop using broker entirely.

If PvP endgame ever works mechanically, I think MO2 would be wise to lean into the fact that it's not a heavy 'grind' progression game, and let everyone make war.

 

[TheHeretic]

Didnt read to much words, but what i think.
1. Price for metalls is to low - MO1 got same (+- 10-15%) on the metalls. But MO2 eat more materials on crafting in half or more.
2. Price for trinkets is to high without any reason. Yep, trink luck and loot amount give you chance, but this is a chance.
3. Price for the house with stable\priest and other stuff is to high, then yes bro, u lost tons of money on this.
Material need to make armor and weapon, then price for it need to bew more high then now. Trinket give you not so many to got this price.
Aboput all other - game still have enough lots to lose money. If you only collect it, yes, you got it enough. If you are fight and got no chance to collect all of you need - you are goint to be pure for sure.

 

[Kaquenqos]

Didnt read to much words, but what i think.
1. Price for metalls is to low - MO1 got same (+- 10-15%) on the metalls. But MO2 eat more materials on crafting in half or more.
2. Price for trinkets is to high without any reason. Yep, trink luck and loot amount give you chance, but this is a chance.
3. Price for the house with stable\priest and other stuff is to high, then yes bro, u lost tons of money on this.
Material need to make armor and weapon, then price for it need to bew more high then now. Trinket give you not so many to got this price.
Aboput all other - game still have enough lots to lose money. If you only collect it, yes, you got it enough. If you are fight and got no chance to collect all of you need - you are goint to be pure for sure.

How would having metals cost more help the economy in light of people hoarding exploited wealth?

If anything metal costs being low is a good thing because it means people can easily outfit their crew even against people who have duped & exploited stacks and stacks of gold.

Your other points I agree on, but I definitely think low costing metal & consequently low costing high-tier gear is a good thing and helps everyone participate against exploited gold, & new guilds to be able to compete against old-money.

If you want a 'realistic' economy, that means all duping & exploits need to be addressed and the server needs to be wiped-- and I don't think that will happen.

 

[Emdash]

How would having metals cost more help the economy in light of people hoarding exploited wealth?

If anything metal costs being low is a good thing because it means people can easily outfit their crew even against people who have duped & exploited stacks and stacks of gold.

Your other points I agree on, but I definitely think low costing metal & consequently low costing high-tier gear is a good thing and helps everyone participate against exploited gold, & new guilds to be able to compete against old-money.

If you want a 'realistic' economy, that means all duping & exploits need to be addressed and the server needs to be wiped-- and I don't think that will happen.

Metal is hard gated, basically the only hard gated part of the game unless you are talking about processing stuff for alchemy or food which does not come in such bulk. I heard Heretic, joking or not, say something about having 30-50 stacks of coke. :/ :/ That's a lot of time invested. If you want metals to be low cost, increase mining yields.

People who put in the work should be rewarded, and brute work mining and I guess fishing (didn't remem that one, tho that's not an economy booster as much) are the only things. I told the story many times of talking to my friend in MO, and he was the cool nice guy, so he was like yah today I got 1xx stacks to butcher, and it's like aw man. Cuz it wasn't hold and slop out the mats, it was wait 45 seconds each time.

They kept yields the same across the board. Metal isn't as good as it should be (steel armor might be monster, but it might be more to the point that steel weps aren't good enough against it.)

The steel is gonna get made. There needs to be a bigger economy for metal. Some prices have gone up, like cuprum in bakti is stupid. I was selling @ 80 or something. People are making steel thru the attract so steel is kinda a special case, but still... mining is definitely at a low point. Why mine when you can farm more worthless shit? Give the miners more yields and they will profit more as well as there will be good supply - shrug -

Again: this is like the only part that is not QoL improved from MO1.

Infact, it almost seems like pseudo-economic theory to try to fix the economy by establishing a 'unit' like that. Mining is a TRUE TIME SINK. Same time, same process time. Jostle that around and see what happens. It's a legit solution to attempt.

 

[TheHeretic]

Kaquenqos
What a big prblem with duping you talked about? Game has exploits, chance of duping, but how i see, villages and lonely houses is gone every day. Yes, someone got somwething good from weak game mechanics, without brake game politics, but it not to ,uch to worry about. That was happened with all games.
If you try to talk about solo and group loot, thit thread not about it.

Emdash
Just for a joke, all likes before - magic is OP. U got Ogh full set and can die from 3 magic cast without any chance to survive. In my openinon, cost of metall craft need to be lowest in half from now, also, metall materials need to have magic reflect chance. High tier - more chance.

We are lost game economy line, but how i say, there is to much wariety to lost money.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Stupid gold amounts are one cause of the economy being 'weird,' but if people were playing and properly demanding, consuming, then it wouldn't be so bad. I don't care what stacks people are holding or what hand shake deals are going on, I mainly base my economic ideas on brokers.

I do honestly think Trinkets and Flux have caused a big problem. Before, it was just people having gold to do w/e with, but now they can get invaluable trinkets. I was reading Heretic talk about mining, and I mean... imagine getting gems that the guys in town could put in your trinkets, change their tier (only +, so people couldn't like... unroll-reroll,) and gen new stats. Not changing from cup to silver, but like... increase gems, add in gems do crush results. Trinkets are such a huge commodity that I believe they are kind of running (I won't say ruining!) the economy, in a way. Thus, one thing we need in the absence of more people to consume is more ways to alter trinkets and more way for different actions to pick up items that modify trinkets because, apparently, that is big biz.

It makes you wonder ( lol not an economist, I just am an economic voyeur,) if in general adding MORE MATS (as in base quantities) to the game would help balance out the gold. Atm tho, not much TC stuff, trinkets... what else is there to spend money on. Capes?

The economy is bad, but it seems like it's going beyond that and affecting the game as a whole, and not just in a 'I can't play a game w/ a trash ass economy!' sort of way. There are things that are obviously incentivized to do, and then there are things that are not really worth it. It should not be that way. Blood, sweat, tears.. that should get you somewhere; that shit is what the economy is based on, base level brute work.

I can ride around and MA people, kill shit... y'know, and as I told other people, I'm not SUPER MAD, so I don't care that much, but definitely it affects my play time that the game is falling into ruins more and more as a functional system. As for systems, I think I understand them better than 'the one system' of economics. Meta-systems... oke.

Problem is the lack of dev criteria, the economy in the game is material and gold usage related. Problem is not the material and gold costs of things, problem is the use", crafting is placeholder, if crafting involved and required more crafting player interaction economy would be another thing.

What do i mean, each crafting class is isolated from other crafting classes. Except 2? Which are refining/extracting and butchery.

But for example a weaponsmith or amor crafter don't require items made from other crafting classes to make specific ítems except the extractors. Not implying self sufficiency shouldn't exist, but for certain specific crafteables would be good if more crafting classes were involved.

The Legendary armor and wepon mechanic is farm related, you gotta get a drop which is rng stupid thing. Different would have been if alchemysts for example made an item to treat armors and weapons respectively to make em "Legendary".
Or that it would be required a amorcrafter item to make a specific horse armor.

Problem is crafting classes are isolated from eachother and they are all placeholder.

Then trinckets yeah, the fact trinckets are not crafteable is the biggest example of lazy development. Would have been a way different result if trinckets were crafteable and would require items from another crafting classes to make good stuff.

This is what i refer when content is isolated and placeholder, because they don't think how" to merge the mechanics and create a system that encourages trading and crafting organically. Theres no perspective is just piling up shitty content.

But thats just part of the problematics, many things contribute to the organic fabric of player interaction. For example it's mind blowing how the pve configuration works around towns.

Towns should be barren, or give the worst type of materials. Not packed with rocks and other gatherables, having to travel off town for gathering should be a requirement and pve wilderness should be rewarding. Among other problematics. But i guess SV likes afk gatherers in towns, go figure.

In this sense, crafting development is exacly the same as MO1 the same and even lesser designs. They probably think they are excelent features and call it a day, no more crafting required.
Crafting might aswell not even exist, just deliver materials to an npc and get shit in exchange.
They didn't give 2 fucks about crafting un MO1 and they are not doing anything now.

Do not expect this to change, the dev agenda is to copy-paste shit from the previous game, not making meaningfull content and learn from previous mistakes, it's embarrassing.

 

[Ichorous]

I'm honestly not convinced that the game economy is "broken" though I suppose that would depend on the specific metrics we'd use to define broken.

I see people referring to duped gold. However, if there were in fact a disproportionately high amount of gold in circulation, there should be a consequent and proportional inflation of pricing in the commodities markets. I'm not seeing any such inflation. Steel prices are still hovering around 500g per stack which is the same price I sold steel for at release. Tungsteel prices are still hovering around 2000g per stack (slightly lower than release). Prices for many common animal materials are even on a downward trajectory, which is counter-indicative of a currency surplus.

The only truly volatile elements in our economy right now, appear to be the trinkets and the flux, which were just added in June. It takes time for new "technology" to establish price stability, and the flux is still reacting to the whiplash of the farming mechanic being changed. I admit, it is alarming to see trinkets being traded for tens of thousands of gold. However, bear in mind a few important facts:

1. There is no resource or product that is comparable to trinkets, in both their extremely high utility and their ability to be retained on death. It follows that they would be extremely valuable, especially when they are first made available.

2. Trinkets are indestructible, difficult to lose, and most players will only buy the few trinkets they need to optimize their character build(s). Consequently, the supply of high quality trinkets will only increase over time, and the demand for high quality trinkets will only decrease over time. This means that in the absence of significant population surges, trinket prices should decrease over time.

 

[Emdash]

I'm honestly not convinced that the game economy is "broken" though I suppose that would depend on the specific metrics we'd use to define broken.

I'd argue it's broken because it's not working on the same level for everyone. Effort doesn't = gains. It's not even like effort /2 or /4 is relevant. It's massively imbalanced.

It's a closed loop. If it's working it's because of outside interference lol. It's working for itself.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

2. People always clown on me for making suggestions despite not bein' an expert, but I mean, they hired programmers, they hired network people, it's hard to imagine they can't hire someone for like 1k euro or 5k euro or w/e to really look at the game and figure out how to start it back toward the direction of economic balance. Might not be a huge resume booster, but everyone likes a lil cash. I wonder why they haven't. One theory is... they want it this way??

MO1 economy was garbage aswell lol, it wasn't better. Same problems but now it's even worse because of how certain systems were symplified instead of correcting".

I agree, instead of hiring capable people and create a team for Pve-crafting-economy they follow their heart and hear some simpletons advices.

 

[Emdash]

MO1 economy was garbage aswell lol, it wasn't better. Same problems but now it's even worse because of how certain systems were symplified instead of correcting".

I agree, instead of hiring capable people and create a team for Pve-crafting-economy they follow their heart and hear some simpletons advices.

Never said it was. I had my own people I did biz with and I paid them more than anyone would pay them because nobody understood value in MO. how hard something was to get did not often define its value, out of a very specific range.

But you know, make mining a bit better, like a job and make it drain stam fast or something so you gotta eat stam food, loop, you know? It's not that complex. It's just not working. And yea it's a very small amount of people. The people who I did biz w/ when we sold shit, we sold it for fair prices or deals in MO1. I only started throwing shit like soph food and mounts on broker when I was mentally checking out of MO due to RAMPING HACKING TBH.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Taking advantage of temporary situations to reap windfall profits won't create an enduring advantage after that temporary situation changes. The surplus just gives them a head start, and they will need to adapt to maintain economic advantage.

Remember, there is always economic inequality in an MMO. It doesn't mean the tables can't be turned. Veteran players will always have more assets than new players. Players who focus on asset collection will always have more assets than players who do not.

Uhmm but theres organic inequality and theres banks full of duped gold.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Never said it was. I had my own people I did biz with and I paid them more than anyone would pay them because nobody understood value in MO. how hard something was to get did not often define its value, out of a very specific range.

But you know, make mining a bit better, like a job and make it drain stam fast or something so you gotta eat stam food, loop, you know? It's not that complex. It's just not working. And yea it's a very small amount of people. The people who I did biz w/ when we sold shit, we sold it for fair prices or deals in MO1. I only started throwing shit like soph food and mounts on broker when I was mentally checking out of MO due to RAMPING HACKING TBH.

Food buffs for pve damn it's so hard to achieve that? Why crafting is so garbage in this game lol, what un the actual fuck. Game is just made of placeholder content.

 

[TheHeretic]

Food buffs for pve damn it's so hard to achieve that? Why crafting is so garbage in this game lol, what un the actual fuck. Game is just made of placeholder content.

If u talk about crafting and pots making, yes i dont like it to. How it works - u can make armor\weps\pots u logged this toon to make something and forgoth about him in next day\week\month. Trying to collect cradfting with other profeccion is false, cuz u got no time to doing it. U wanna mined some calx\sabura\other shit, moved it to miles away and forgoth about PvP and other. in MO1 its being same, but easy, cuz u got 4 toons on 1 acc.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

If u talk about crafting and pots making, yes i dont like it to. How it works - u can make armor\weps\pots u logged this toon to make something and forgoth about him in next day\week\month. Trying to collect cradfting with other profeccion is false, cuz u got no time to doing it. U wanna mined some calx\sabura\other shit, moved it to miles away and forgoth about PvP and other. in MO1 its being same, but easy, cuz u got 4 toons on 1 acc.

The game exists under the premise of player interaction. Crafting is supposed involve player interaction but it doesn't do it organically or in a meaningfull way.

Theres skill pools issues and 1 character slot per account problematics but we are not discussing that right now.

The idea should be to encourage crafting-trading more fluently so defeats the need to have múltiple characters.

When i say crafting classes should work together" and have certain degree of entailment i don't refer to create tediouss systems to force people to trade or have múltiple accounts, i do not vouch for that and crafting classes shouldn't lose their self sufficiency, but there should be a certain spectrum of crafting activities/items" that would require from other crafting classes to work, and that would open the playfield for a lot of people.

 

[Ichorous]

Uhmm but theres organic inequality and theres banks full of duped gold.

I believe there's inequality.

If you can prove there are banks full of duped gold, then do so. I don't see the evidence. People having stacks of gold doesn't mean it's duped.

 

[Jatix]

To the wipe dumbasses. Lets say they did a wipe today. What would happen in 6 months? You'd all be asking for a wipe again. The game needs to get good, wipes are just a bandaid. Anyone whos an actual MO vet knows full well that there will be plenty more dupes, exploits, ect over time. So it blows my mind that its lots of vets asking for a wipe. We got one, it was called MO2, and the eco is already shit. Games not even a year old yet lmao.