HotFix Patch 0.1.13.11 Discussion

[Albanjo Dravae]

You are probably right, my failure to think the values double per level. Meanwhile I got the first clade point, and the next goes for 120 leveling points. The values look strange in case of a jump from 130 to 310, but maybe StarVault wants us to get the first three points pretty fast and then slows down the leveling speed very much.

From another char I got the information 1650 points from clade point 12 to 13.

Yeah i dont understand why clade shit Is so tedious right now. It was tedious when 100x and now Is just horrible grind. Also every single creature kill should give clade points but hey its SV, some people might even defend the current model just cuz fanbois.

 

[KevinDL]

Yeah i dont understand why clade shit Is so tedious right now. It was tedious when 100x and now Is just horrible grind. Also every single creature kill should give clade points but hey its SV, some people might even defend the current model just cuz fanbois.

I will defend the number of points required to unlock new clade gifts (long-term goals are essential), but I also believe that every creature killed should grant some experience toward the next clade unlock, even if it is just a single point for killing non-fighting animals. Regardless of the sort of mob they are after, players should be rewarded with clade gift experience.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I will defend the number of points required to unlock new clade gifts (long-term goals are essential), but I also believe that every creature killed should grant some experience toward the next clade unlock, even if it is just a single point for killing non-fighting animals. Regardless of the sort of mob they are after, players should be rewarded with clade gift experience.

This is supposed to be skill based game not grind based game, i agree that getting skills up and builds done require time to do so but when a small piece of content, essential to pvp requires massive time effort for completing a build it will create a really big gap between new and old players.
Character progression should be easy, getting materials, gear, spells, pets and mounts should be the challenging part.

Idk, in my opinion having such a grind to complete a clade tree or at least get the basic stuff will make combat to be grind based, the more nolife u put into it the better at combat.

A complete different story would be if the first 15 clade points were easy to get that would level the ground for new and older players.

Look at what combat was when x100, people could bypass shitty game design (accounts, characters and progression) by rerolling and leveling stuff back, with not a super tedious clade points grind players would be on even fields, "when skill matters", everyone could access their clade abilities and this made it fair game.

Now, imagine a 1 month old character with 15+ clade skills vs a starting nublet with 3 clade points. How can anyone compete with that, not only gear crutching but also clade crutching. Do we want pvp to be MORE grind based?

I'm not against progression, at all. I like grind and i used to grind a lot in MO1 but when combat is such a key part of the game, shit should be accessible to players and not a grindfest.

Main problem is the x100 speed was working really well in my opinion, they haven't tried the mechanics with 1x (as far as i know) and i think its gonna suck balls in terms of balance, and i think its going to cripple player income by rewarding grind time the way it does.

To be honest, x100 felt really well. Felt organic, fun and definitely not tedious. 50x would still be amazing good but 1x... They really didn't thought certain progressions very well.

And lets not even mention theres NO CLADE TREE RESET OPTION YET, and until then people will be forced to reroll on 1x and lose any character and materials progression unless you pay to win and get a 2nd account.

Grind has to have a purpose higher than the timeframe for exhausting content. This was one of the issues with MO1, certain mechanics would be completly based in time grind and what should have been challenging was instead tedious. For me, thats a wrong approach. People should be required to think instead of repeat the same action one million times, this repetition based model was from another era of gaming.

edit

Last clade point 19 to 20 on my thursar, takes 18300 clade points. Translated in graveyard zombies thats 3660 zombies, considering GY population and respawn time 1 kill every 45sec thats like 46 hours of constant killing zombies, with an average of 3h of gameplay a day thats 15 days, 3h a day of constant zombie killing to get last clade point.

Bandits give 12 cp, with an average 2m per kill thats almost 51 hours of constant bandit killing.

Idk how many points the other clade lvls take but by the looks of it seems like a severals months of farming.

Its understandable the very last clade point takes a while to get, but it would be cool to know how many points per lvl till reaching max lvl.

 

[nazgo]

This is supposed to be skill based game not grind based game, i agree that getting skills up and builds done require time to do so but when a small piece of content, essential to pvp requires massive time effort for completing a build it will create a really big gap between new and old players.
Character progression should be easy, getting materials, gear, spells, pets and mounts should be the challenging part.

Idk, in my opinion having such a grind to complete a clade tree or at least get the basic stuff will make combat to be grind based, the more nolife u put into it the better at combat.

A complete different story would be if the first 15 clade points were easy to get that would level the ground for new and older players.

Look at what combat was when x100, people could bypass shitty game design (accounts, characters and progression) by rerolling and leveling stuff back, with not a super tedious clade points grind players would be on even fields, "when skill matters", everyone could access their clade abilities and this made it fair game.

Now, imagine a 1 month old character with 15+ clade skills vs a starting nublet with 3 clade points. How can anyone compete with that, not only gear crutching but also clade crutching. Do we want pvp to be MORE grind based?

I'm not against progression, at all. I like grind and i used to grind a lot in MO1 but when combat is such a key part of the game, shit should be accessible to players and not a grindfest.

Main problem is the x100 speed was working really well in my opinion, they haven't tried the mechanics with 1x (as far as i know) and i think its gonna suck balls in terms of balance, and i think its going to cripple player income by rewarding grind time the way it does.

To be honest, x100 felt really well. Felt organic, fun and definitely not tedious. 50x would still be amazing good but 1x... They really dind't thought certain progressions very well.

And lets not even mention theres NO CLADE TREE RESET OPTION YET, and until there is people will be forced to reroll on 1x and lose any character and materials progression unless you pay to win and get a 2nd account.

Grind has to have a purpose higher than the timeframe for exhausting content. This was one of the issues with MO1, certain mechanics would be completly based in time grind and what should have been challenging was instead tedious. For me, thats a wrong approach. People should be required to think instead of repeat the same action one million times, this repetition based model was from another era of gaming.

agreed

It would be fine, if I had to grind months for that +10% extra yield from extracting, or an ability to sense "otherwordly" creatures around you, or a passive skill which will have a chance to tell you wether there are valuables in a tree or not. These are all things I would gladly grind towards. But oh god, when a new player is trying to fight against a player who (on top of having better skill and gear) has passive stam boost, passive movement buff, passive reduction of fall dmg, active ability to heal/cleanse/speed boost.... Its gonna widen the cap between a vet and a newbie greatly, and I dunno if thats a good thing.

Its also gonna widen the cap between casuals and veterans. Veterans are gonna do the tedious grind of killing thousands of skeletons for max clade gifts right after release. While casual players will most likely try to level up by actually enjoying the game. So a month after release, casuals are gonna be level ~10 while grinders are gonna be close to max.

For pvp players, getting almost all those clade gifts is essential. So instead of being that longterm content which people will work towards for years, its gonna be short term deadboring grind for few months for many players.

 

[Jatix]

Nobody is a crafter only! Everybody can get some clade gifts just by running through the graveyard. The first clade gift needs 100 points = 20 walking dead, the second 200, then 400 and 800 (if I remember the old values right, I just rerolled yesterday and did not finish the first level yet). 700 points = 120 walking dead are easy going even for "crafters". And for some clade gifts about crafting you don't need much more clade gifts.

But I like your idea to get points for maxing a crafting skill (once).

So let me get this straight. They made the world bigger so it can hold more players. But progression of a character is practically limited to farming GY, which are 1 per town, just like in MO1, and cant hold many players at all? I don't get it.

Also is farming walkers supposed to be fun? Because personally if I got a game on steam and the first thing someone told me to do was kill 2000 walkers to max my character I'd log out and refund the game.

And then when someone realizes their race sucks and needs to make a new character, they get to do it all again. Assuming they dont want to spend more $$$$$$$ in the cash shop, which is where rerolls will most likely be, in their paid game that also has a sub.

Every update this game makes even less sense to me. Making a open pvp game more grindy just puts new players at a bigger disadvantage. Characters need to get max combat efficiency asap, so that when they get jumped its at least not about their build being unfinished.

 

[pooternackle]

agreed

It would be fine, if I had to grind months for that +10% extra yield from extracting, or an ability to sense "otherwordly" creatures around you, or a passive skill which will have a chance to tell you wether there are valuables in a tree or not. These are all things I would gladly grind towards. But oh god, when a new player is trying to fight against a player who (on top of having better skill and gear) has passive stam boost, passive movement buff, passive reduction of fall dmg, active ability to heal/cleanse/speed boost.... Its gonna widen the cap between a vet and a newbie greatly, and I dunno if thats a good thing.

Its also gonna widen the cap between casuals and veterans. Veterans are gonna do the tedious grind of killing thousands of skeletons for max clade gifts right after release. While casual players will most likely try to level up by actually enjoying the game. So a month after release, casuals are gonna be level ~10 while grinders are gonna be close to max.

For pvp players, getting almost all those clade gifts is essential. So instead of being that longterm content which people will work towards for years, its gonna be short term deadboring grind for few months for many players.

It's a stretch to say any clade gift is essential. Some are important (not essential) for narrowly focused builds, but if a particular clade is particularly important, it's not a long grind to get it early. That +2 max strength isn't gonna make or break anyone's pvp capabilities. The most essential clade gift is probably the Alvarin age gift, but that can be accessed immediately since it's a tier 1 clade. Really thursar is the only clade that doesn't have a bis gift in the tier 1 slot.

Some people in this thread think being min-maxed is the only way to succeed in pvp, when it's not. A player with all 20 clade gifts isn't going to do much better than one with just 10. Or 5, even.

 

[Deleted member 44]

Really? No one is going to compliment SV or add any comments on this change?

• Improved female soft body physics performance.

Not sure if this is a true change, or a joke buried in the patch notes......

It's ironic that the best working physics in the game have to do with breast and genitalia.

 

[Deleted member 44]

So let me get this straight. They made the world bigger so it can hold more players. But progression of a character is practically limited to farming GY, which are 1 per town, just like in MO1, and cant hold many players at all? I don't get it.

Also is farming walkers supposed to be fun? Because personally if I got a game on steam and the first thing someone told me to do was kill 2000 walkers to max my character I'd log out and refund the game.

And then when someone realizes their race sucks and needs to make a new character, they get to do it all again. Assuming they dont want to spend more $$$$$$$ in the cash shop, which is where rerolls will most likely be, in their paid game that also has a sub.

Every update this game makes even less sense to me. Making a open pvp game more grindy just puts new players at a bigger disadvantage. Characters need to get max combat efficiency asap, so that when they get jumped its at least not about their build being unfinished.

I'm not following your logic. SV wants clades to become something specialized and worked for just like your chosen skills. Higher level monsters give a lot of clade experience and it really isn't much of a grind if you are playing and exploring the world. This isnt a survival game, it's an MMO. The idea is to make the character progression a journey and not something you do in a day.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

It's a stretch to say any clade gift is essential. Some are important (not essential) for narrowly focused builds, but if a particular clade is particularly important, it's not a long grind to get it early. That +2 max strength isn't gonna make or break anyone's pvp capabilities. The most essential clade gift is probably the Alvarin age gift, but that can be accessed immediately since it's a tier 1 clade. Really thursar is the only clade that doesn't have a bis gift in the tier 1 slot.

Some people in this thread think being min-maxed is the only way to succeed in pvp, when it's not. A player with all 20 clade gifts isn't going to do much better than one with just 10. Or 5, even.

You obviously not aware of all the active and passive alvarin, thursar, oghmir and human clade skills, denying these skills affect pvp significantly doesn't make it true. I would explain you why but i rather not to be honest.
And yes we ain't talking about the +4 STR in humans in case you didn't notice.

 

[Skydancer]

Many other things give gift experience beyond the graveyard, and having both short and long-term progression items make sense in an MMO. Player skill trumps minor in-game stat bonuses in this game, right?

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

I'm not following your logic. SV wants clades to become something specialized and worked for just like your chosen skills. Higher level monsters give a lot of clade experience and it really isn't much of a grind if you are playing and exploring the world. This isnt a survival game, it's an MMO. The idea is to make the character progression a journey and not something you do in a day.

bla bla bla bla, everyone knows theres progression dude you ain't inventing gunpowder. We talking about the nature of the progression and the balance regarding PVP and PVE in the scale of time. If you wanna be a fanboi and defend shit just cuz at least make a point.

 

[pooternackle]

You obviously not aware of all the active and passive alvarin, thursar, oghmir and human clade skills, denying these skills affect pvp significantly doesn't make it true. I would explain you why but i rather not to be honest.
And yes we ain't talking about the +4 STR in humans in case you didn't notice.

You can pvp fine without active clade gifts. But even if you are someone that is unable to get a kill without them for some reason, it takes a max of 3 clade gifts to get an active - not much of a grind.

 

[Mahoneofficial]

It's a stretch to say any clade gift is essential. Some are important (not essential) for narrowly focused builds, but if a particular clade is particularly important, it's not a long grind to get it early. That +2 max strength isn't gonna make or break anyone's pvp capabilities. The most essential clade gift is probably the Alvarin age gift, but that can be accessed immediately since it's a tier 1 clade. Really thursar is the only clade that doesn't have a bis gift in the tier 1 slot.

Some people in this thread think being min-maxed is the only way to succeed in pvp, when it's not. A player with all 20 clade gifts isn't going to do much better than one with just 10. Or 5, even.

Then i can't see why we need to lock behind for half year grind. I think its not the real progression that players seeking or want.
If we do then make every ingame activity give a small amount clade xp. The players need to feel their progression continuously. We can call this a game developer psychology.

 

[Deleted member 44]

bla bla bla bla, everyone knows theres progression dude you ain't inventing gunpowder. We talking about the nature of the progression and the balance regarding PVP and PVE in the scale of time. If you wanna be a fanboi and defend shit just cuz at least make a point.

Uhh. I got to level 2 clade by spending 10 min in the Haven dungeon from the moment I made my character. Nothing fan boy about it being really easy to level clades up to at least level 10. Maybe you haven't explored the world enough but I can fully clade my character in a single day if I really wanted to.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

So let me get this straight. They made the world bigger so it can hold more players. But progression of a character is practically limited to farming GY, which are 1 per town, just like in MO1, and cant hold many players at all? I don't get it.

Also is farming walkers supposed to be fun? Because personally if I got a game on steam and the first thing someone told me to do was kill 2000 walkers to max my character I'd log out and refund the game.

And then when someone realizes their race sucks and needs to make a new character, they get to do it all again. Assuming they dont want to spend more $$$$$$$ in the cash shop, which is where rerolls will most likely be, in their paid game that also has a sub.

Every update this game makes even less sense to me. Making a open pvp game more grindy just puts new players at a bigger disadvantage. Characters need to get max combat efficiency asap, so that when they get jumped its at least not about their build being unfinished.

It makes litle sense cuz what should be challenging and skill based it ain't and its grind based, timesink mechanics. SO NICHE roflmao.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Uhh. I got to level 2 clade by spending 10 min in the Haven dungeon from the moment I made my character. Nothing fan boy about it being really easy to level clades up to at least level 10. Maybe you haven't explored the world enough but I can fully clade my character in a single day if I really wanted to.

You are obviously clueless on the amount of CP it requires to get a max tree done, otherwise you wouldn't say such a noob thing like that.

 

[Deleted member 44]

You are obviously clueless on the amount of CP it requires to get a max tree done, otherwise you wouldn't say such a noob thing like that.

Nope. Not clueless, I just know more about the game than you do. It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be.

 

[Albanjo Dravae]

Nope. Not clueless, I just know more about the game than you do. It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be.

Well if you know that much, tell me how many CP till completion of the tree and what do you kill and how many times till you have the build done. Cuz im really eager to know your facts here, unless you can't prove it.

 

[Mahoneofficial]

Uhh. I got to level 2 clade by spending 10 min in the Haven dungeon from the moment I made my character. Nothing fan boy about it being really easy to level clades up to at least level 10. Maybe you haven't explored the world enough but I can fully clade my character in a single day if I really wanted to.

Almost everybody done with the clade. Just some people hanging around as new player or reroll test something before wipe so there you dont have competition for place of bandit & zombies. But it will change after the relase. After when you know about the game you need to know about peoples and their goals.

I can fully clade my character in a single day if I really wanted to.

Somebody math 40-50hour just for the last clade. tell me how you do the whole in 24h.

 

[nazgo]

It's a stretch to say any clade gift is essential. Some are important (not essential) for narrowly focused builds, but if a particular clade is particularly important, it's not a long grind to get it early. That +2 max strength isn't gonna make or break anyone's pvp capabilities. The most essential clade gift is probably the Alvarin age gift, but that can be accessed immediately since it's a tier 1 clade. Really thursar is the only clade that doesn't have a bis gift in the tier 1 slot.

Some people in this thread think being min-maxed is the only way to succeed in pvp, when it's not. A player with all 20 clade gifts isn't going to do much better than one with just 10. Or 5, even.

nothing is "essential" unless you want to be competetive. Min-maxin itself does not guarantee anything, but in a competetive environment, such as small scale pvp, they do make a difference. Gifts like 2x "+1.25% movement speed and +5stam" and "+25 levels to all archery skills" are the source of false accusations, as new players find themself in a situation where the enemy player has more speed, bigger stamina pool and effectively almost 100 "free" skill points. People are really underestimating the impact of these free skill point clades, in the best case scenario they can make or break a build.

Sure you dont need all 20 gifts for min-maxing, that +4 psy or +10% skinning yield is not gonna make a difference in anything, but a good 13-15 gifts are pretty much required for an even playing field