Horse Stats Suggestion: Preventing Perfection

sigrace

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Dec 10, 2020
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Before I post let me preface this by saying we don’t know what we don’t know. There’s little information to go on about mounts and pets other than what we already have in Mortal Online 1. I believe animal gameplay has room for improvement from MO1 and hope the devs are hard at work making an immersive system!



Background:

To begin, let me label off the current MO1 stats a horse has and what they do:

Health: Amount of Hit Points

Stamina: Amount of stamina points.

Level: Creatures power Level (Raises all other stats)

Strength: Reduces how fast your mount can break, increases piercing and slashing defence, increases stamina drain. It also increases your mount’s carrying capacity.

Constitution: Reduces mount stamina drain

Dexterity: Increases max jump height, max speed, turn rate and how fast the mount speeds up/down

Psyche: Used for magic damage reduction and increase boost time as well as decrease stamina drain when boosting.

Intelligence: Higher INT means less chance that the mount will throw you off.

Max Speed: Effects and lists the Speed stat and max jump.

Size: Adds chance to knock someone down, Increases blunt defense, increases stamina drain, increases speed.

Weight: Increases chance of knocking down, increases stamina drain

While some of the stats have downsides, the upsides more than make up for the small loss and maxing out ALL stats was what a breeder ultimately wants. After long, the “perfect” horse was far more common (and cheaper). There were other systems in place to ensure newly born horses were not always perfect like their parents, but the problem lies in having only one “best” to strive for. It goes against the great variety this title has to offer.


My Suggestions:

The most important change I believe would help is treating pets like player characters in terms of how attributes are done. Horses should have a pool of free attribute points that can be used by training, like players. Ex: Riding a slightly over encumbered horse will start to raise it's strength or riding at full speed will increase dexterity. The horses parents will determine each of its stat caps, like Clades do in MO1.

Horses should have stat caps that are limited by other stats.
Horse Idea MO2@0.5x-80.jpg
The Graphic
In my mind, there are three major stats: Dex, Con, and Str. There should be a trade off between these three, much like a sprinter, distance runner, and weight lifter. A weight lifter is sturdy, but he's likely not running as far or as fast as a distance runner and sprinter respectively.

The other stats would be more linear, depending on where the horse falls on the stat triangle. Ex: A sprinter has a high boosted speed. A weightlifter not so much, but is still explosive. A distance runner does not have the body to hold a sprint very long.

Each stat should have a breeding deviation. Basically a range of numbers the horse might pass on calculated with it's mate's numbers.

In the example horse, we have a horse that has good Dex, but bad Con and Str. The horse was trained to maximize it's dex, con and stamina. It's Str, boost, and health were almost maxed, but the rider ran out of free attribute points. Psy and Int were not trained on this horse at all, meaning the rider needs to have very good horse skills or this horse is likely to buck him off.

Intelligence
Intelligence should be separate, but with the highest breeding deviation to ensure it is difficult to max.

Psyche and Boosted Speed
Psyche should deal more with pain tolerance and magic defence, rather than boosting stats. Have it work with intelligence, where an intelligent horse is less likely to throw you off all around, but an intelligent horse with high psyche is less likely to throw you off while at low health and stamina. Basically, Psyche helps keep the intelligence buff while the horse is under stress. A horse with high psyche and low int will throw you off as much as a horse with low pysche and low int.

Boosted Speed, would determine the efficiency and speed at which you can boost based on a you mounts top unboosted speed. It's basically a percentage of your top speed added on top that drains stamina at a fixed rate. Increasing this stat would increase the percentage added and slightly lower the stamina drained.

Level
Level was always a strange stat to me in a game that emphasizes players having no level. I think this should be changed to age with the non-numeric descriptors Young, Mature, and Elder. Time would cause these to change. Taming a creature Young would start it off with lower stats but allow the creature to be trained faster. A Mature creature has reach breeding age but is now trained at a normal rate. An Elder creature can no longer be bred, and its attributes are trained at half the speed. That way horses have a breeding shelf life and can't simply be bred indefinitely.

------

I know this was long and is far from perfect. This is to get people thinking and talking (and hopefully SV thinking more). I'd love to hear what others think and perhaps get our voices in on the pet stat system before it's set in stone.

Edited 12/19/2020 to try and break up long post*
 
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Handsome Young Man

Well-known member
Jun 13, 2020
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Before I post let me preface this by saying we don’t know what we don’t know. There’s little information to go on about mounts and pets other than what we already have in Mortal Online 1. I believe animal gameplay has room for improvement from MO1 and hope the devs are hard at work making an immersive system!



Background:

To begin, let me label off the current MO1 stats a horse has and what they do:

Health: Amount of Hit Points

Stamina: Amount of stamina points.

Level: Creatures power Level (Raises all other stats)

Strength: Reduces how fast your mount can break, increases piercing and slashing defence, increases stamina drain. It also increases your mount’s carrying capacity.

Constitution: Reduces mount stamina drain

Dexterity: Increases max jump height, max speed, turn rate and how fast the mount speeds up/down

Psyche: Used for magic damage reduction and increase boost time as well as decrease stamina drain when boosting.

Intelligence: Higher INT means less chance that the mount will throw you off.

Max Speed: Effects and lists the Speed stat and max jump.

Size: Adds chance to knock someone down, Increases blunt defense, increases stamina drain, increases speed.

Weight: Increases chance of knocking down, increases stamina drain

While some of the stats have downsides, the upsides more than make up for the small loss and maxing out ALL stats was what a breeder ultimately wants. After long, the “perfect” horse was far more common (and cheaper). There were other systems in place to ensure newly born horses were not always perfect like their parents, but the problem lies in having only one “best” to strive for. It goes against the great variety this title has to offer.


My Suggestions:

The most important change I believe would help is treating pets like player characters in terms of how attributes are done. Horses should have a pool of free attribute points that can be used by training, like players. Ex: Riding a slightly over encumbered horse will start to raise it's strength or riding at full speed will increase dexterity. The horses parents will determine each of its stat caps, like Clades do in MO1.

Horses should have stat caps that are limited by other stats.
View attachment 570
In my mind, there are three major stats: Dex, Con, and Str. There should be a trade off between these three, much like a sprinter, distance runner, and weight lifter. A weight lifter is sturdy, but he's likely not running as far or as fast as a distance runner and sprinter respectively.

The other stats would be more linear, depending on where the horse falls on the stat triangle. Ex: A sprinter has a high boosted speed. A weightlifter not so much, but is still explosive. A distance runner does not have the body to hold a sprint very long.

Each stat should have a breeding deviation. Basically a range of numbers the horse might pass on calculated with it's mate's numbers.

Intelligence should be separate, but with the highest breeding deviation to ensure it is difficult to max.

Psyche should deal more with pain tolerance and magic defence, rather that boosting stats. Have it work with intelligence, where an intelligent horse is less likely to throw you off all around, but an intelligent horse with high psyche is less likely to throw you off while at low health and stamina. Basically, Psyche helps keep the intelligence buff while the horse is under stress. A horse with high psyche and low int will throw you off as much as a horse with low pysche and low int.

Level was always a strange stat to me in a game that emphasizes players having no level. I think this should be changed to age with the non-numeric descriptors Young, Mature, and Elder. Time would cause these to change. Taming a creature young would start it off with lower stats but allow the creature to be trained faster. A mature creature has reach breeding age but is now trained at a normal rate. An Elder creature can no longer be bred, and its attributes are trained at half the speed. That way horses have a breeding shelf life and can't simply be bred indefinitely.

------

I know this was long and is far from perfect. This is to get people thinking and talking (and hopefully SV thinking more). I'd love to hear what others think and perhaps get our voices in on the pet stat system before it's set in stone.

It's a good idea with a visual, that I agree with.

Horses should not ever be bred to perfection, there should only be perfect horses of their category.
 

Teknique

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Jun 15, 2020
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I think they tried to do that, but the net effect was just a bunch of breed fails, while not actually changing anything about horses.

I would be for breeding being only viable from a wild parent. So maybe you can get one exceptional horse from the wild and breed it once or twice and thats it, and the offspring can only mate with wild horses.

You might be able to make an above average horse then, but not fill your bank with all perfect horses.

That sounds lame on paper but in reality perfect horses just made mounted less interested by not being to just tame a horse and go.

Maybe a bonus system for breeding exceptionals, a chance to get a significantly better horse but not such a thing as a perfect horse lineages spanning forever. Where they're all just breeding with their great cousins twice removed forever and maybe a random horse with 1 int got thrown in there somewhere.
 
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Handsome Young Man

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Taming should become more prominent and important, and remain prominent and important. I disliked how it transitioned from tamers having actual roles in the game, to just doing it a bunch one time then never needing to do it unless you absolutely ran out of everything in stables (Which most smart people didn't).
 

sigrace

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Dec 10, 2020
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Taming should become more prominent and important, and remain prominent and important. I disliked how it transitioned from tamers having actual roles in the game, to just doing it a bunch one time then never needing to do it unless you absolutely ran out of everything in stables (Which most smart people didn't).


Perhaps
I think they tried to do that, but the net effect was just a bunch of breed fails, while not actually changing anything about horses.

I would be for breeding being only viable from a wild parent. So maybe you can get one exceptional horse from the wild and breed it once or twice and thats it, and the offspring can only mate with wild horses.

You might be able to make an above average horse then, but not fill your bank with all perfect horses.

That sounds lame on paper but in reality perfect horses just made mounted less interested by not being to just tame a horse and go.

Maybe a bonus system for breeding exceptionals, a chance to get a significantly better horse but not such a thing as a perfect horse lineages spanning forever. Where they're all just breeding with their great cousins twice removed forever and maybe a random horse with 1 int got thrown in there somewhere.

While this is still Beta, taming and it's associated skills share the same pool of skill points as combat skills. I think this will make taming quite a bit uncommon, but who knows.

Since crafting has an exceptional item system, perhaps allowing only wild horses to have a small chance to produce exceptional offspring, but domesticated have no chance. Exceptional offspring should have a small chance to create an exceptional child as well, but at a far smaller rate than wild horses. This let's pure breeders still have a shot at exceptional mounts, but keeps taming viable since a well stated wild horse is better breeding stock to get that exceptional.

There could also be negatives to over breeding for a certain stat. Real Life Ex: Big dogs, like the newfoundland and Saint Bernard are bred for size and strength but have shortened life spans and hip problems.
 
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Bernfred

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the system in MO1 was like this you couldnt breed the perfect horses. they had a pool and you had to sacrifice 2 stats to max all others to the effective limit. what was missing was a wider variety. the stats cap was too high so you throw away 2 stats who are making no difference like psyche so people had practicaly the same horses.
breeding was too easy if you had 2 good horses some sort of negative genetic drift so you need to tame new horses once in a while would be nice.

EDIT: add the ability to breed the perfect horse with a super low chance.
 
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sigrace

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Dec 10, 2020
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the system in MO1 was like this you couldnt breed the perfect horses. they had a pool and you had to sacrifice 2 stats to max all others to the effective limit. what was missing was a wider variety. the stats cap was too high so you throw away 2 stats who are making no difference like psyche so people had practicaly the same horses.
breeding was too easy if you had 2 good horses some sort of negative genetic drift so you need to tame new horses once in a while would be nice.

EDIT: add the ability to breed the perfect horse with a super low chance.

I see what you're saying. In MO1 there are throw away stats for sure and that made it a no brainer when it came to what was best in terms of stats.

What I'm suggesting is making the 3 main stats (Dex, Con, and Str) a compromise. Maximizing one comes at the cost of the other 2. Ex: If you want the fastest horse, you'll lose out on stamina use reduction and carrying capacity. I'm sure metas would form if something like this was implemented. What I'm hoping is it won't be one end all be all horse stat block and instead be based on what the player would like to do.

Mounted melee might tend towards a mount with an even Dex and Str caps to try and maximize their charge, while a mounted archer may favor a horse with more con and a little dex to stay at range of their opponent.
 
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barcode

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Jun 2, 2020
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i dont see mention of HP in these balances you suggest, nor anything about reducing the max level from 125 to something more reasonable.

-barcode
 
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sigrace

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i dont see mention of HP in these balances you suggest, nor anything about reducing the max level from 125 to something more reasonable.

-barcode

The post is a giant, so things can easily be missed.

I wrote health instead of HP. Basically my thought with those linear graphs is the three main stats will drive those secondary stats. A sturdy/Str horse would tend to have more health than a top speed/dex horse, but both would have more than a pure energy stable/con horse. If someone bred a purely sturdy horse with a purely energy stable horse, it's health would tend to be similar to a pure top speed horse.

For level, I'd simply like to see it gone and changed to age with the modifiers young, mature, and elder. I'd like horses to be treated like players.
Stat caps are set from breeding like clades, but actual stat points come from a pool of 'free' stats that have to be trained like player have to. The age modifiers simply determine if the animal is old enough to breed and the rate they can be trained (Young learning at a fast rate and elder learning at a slow one).