Horse Archer Meta

[Zandragal]

So is this actually fun for anybody? Seems like the only reliable way to compete vs. Horse Archers is to roll as a Horse Archer. Considering most of the game's content is outdoors in large, open areas that creates an imbalance with... well, every other build that's not Horse Archer. My footie can probably wreck you deep inside a spider cave, but that's about 2% of the game for right now. The other 98%? Horse archers.

Should something be done about this? If so, what? Nerf mounted archery damage perhaps?

 

[Fisher(Sath)]

Try shooting the horse. MA is only meta in the sense that farming is easiest with it. In pvp MA are dismounted in the first few seconds if you know whats going on.

 

[Jhackman]

Get good. There’s always a way to outplay a play style. It just might require an extra skill.

A footie with a long bow gets me to fuck off real quick on my ma. Mounted mages used to be a thing till they nerfed them into the ground. Have yet to even see a Mc. But people will complain about mounteds until there’s no way to deal damage on a mount and even then they’ll say they’re op because they move faster then a footie.

 

[Jatix]

The issue with the MA meta, is that while you can just shoot their horse, they can also just ride off. But you need a horse to get around so you also have to be an MA. And if your horse dies your screwed and get to walk. So it just makes a questionable gameplay loop of you have to have a horse but it dies every fight.

MA isn't 'op' because horses are glass (which as a MO1 player, is an amazing change, MO1 horses were way too good). So if they want to stay and fight their horse probobly died, and then they are on foot anyway. MA is mostly just op for hard zerging because you cant run and killing their mount is harder when theres 5 of them. But theres not really a way to fix that, zerging will always be op.

 

[Zandragal]

Get good. There’s always a way to outplay a play style. It just might require an extra skill.

A footie with a long bow gets me to fuck off real quick on my ma.

Must not be a very good MA my guy. Once the footie is dismounted because he can't shoot from horseback you can skate back if your mount takes any hits, heal/bandage and go back in at will. Meanwhile footie is ducking for cover and trying to heal himself while you've only taken mount damage.

Add the fact that everyone and their mom is playing MA and you have the clammy porridge of the current meta.

 

[Deleted member 44]

Must not be a very good MA my guy. Once the footie is dismounted because he can't shoot from horseback you can skate back if your mount takes any hits, heal/bandage and go back in at will. Meanwhile footie is ducking for cover and trying to heal himself while you've only taken mount damage.

Add the fact that everyone and their mom is playing MA and you have the clammy porridge of the current meta.

No, you're just bad. The foot fighter isn't ducking for cover and try to heal. The foot fighter gets out a long bow and deletes the MAs mount, put it in mercy mode and deletes the MA with melee before they can do shit. Idk why I have to constantly say the same thing on these forums. Mercenary plate armor takes 8~10 from a MAs short bow with Draco Plate taking even less.

 

[Tzone]

yeah actually shooting a on foot player as MA is challanging because of the arrow speed and the direction you are shooting at them from. With even on foot archering if you just move side to side you cant get hit.

But still fighting against mounted as FF is just supper frustrating as any competent MA will just ride off, heal and come back. But again hitting a player who is on foot is extremely challenging if they know what to do. And its not because of a skill thing, you have to guess if they will stop or move and which direction they will move to when they are dodging you.

Lots of rebalancing needs to be done to allow FFs to have some real counter vs mounts and then allow mounts to actually sit and trade to a degree with foot players.

 

[Teknique]

People can say whatever they want (and they will) but when the whole population of the game is playing 1 build its busted unequivocally.

 

[Kuthara]

Everyone requires a mount to get around the map, unfortunately that is the state of the game due to the size of the environment.

MA is simply used as a method to actually begin an engagement in PvP. I have a Heavy Foot Fighter with some MA to allow me to dismount other players so that I can then dump my horse and take them on foot. Trying to actually kill someone as an MA is hilarious. A good mage with a shield that is not out in the open will out heal you and a foot fighter will blast your horse away with a bow.

Foot always beats mounted on equal numbers.

I think the issue at the moment is generally there are a lot of new players who will be utterly demolished by anyone half decent with an MA because they do not know how to fight them, are in terrible gear and panic.

 

[Emdash]

People can say whatever they want (and they will) but when the whole population of the game is playing 1 build its busted unequivocally.

once sieges get in, MAs will lose value. Like I said you can't push w/ MA. They are just the roaming ganker. Would be MC if MC wasn't trash. Jatix said exactly what I said and I agree, it's just that you need a horse and if you're gonna have a horse you might as well take MA regardless, otherwise you're just a soft gank.

But all of the farming etc, hunting, bringing carcs, that's all horse content. If there were places close to each town that required large foot fighter groups and gave good rewards, it might change a little.

I dunno if it's broken tho, per se, because I'm still gonna take the necessary skills to foot fight (and take the gimp, but elf gets +25 and human gets +30, which is aight I guess.) It's just a derp to not have MA if you're gonna ride a horse, and even if you're mining stax, it makes almost no sense to not have MA.

I dunno how else to fix it. The biggest thing is carry weight. I had a dream, real talk. lol... this is kinda unrelated, but I'm gonna put it here. I didn't even realize it was a dream or remember I had it until just now. But there were like farming equipment that you could get in MO2 and push around, like into fields of grain that would auto gather en mass and hold a lot. Same w/ shit not in the dream like mining carts to push, but outside of just doing that around town, I don't see any real way to fix that you need a horse to bring back stax or even if you're not gonna use table, to bring back field butched mats.

And you can farm some things on foot and load them onto your horse, but then you're on your horse and you're a big loot bag without MA. IMO it's not as big of a problem as it seems, there are just a lot of MAs because there are a lot of people transporting/farming. The MA army thing is a joke vs any sort of a force.

I call shit meta, but I don't even know if I'd call MA... which is in this case just being mounted and having the only real viable attack skill on it for pve... meta. It's just the way the game is. It always was like that for MA. Almost everyone who farmed for real had a MA. It's just that some of us had MCs too and could shit on MAs lol.

Once again, add in a skill under MC or add it into mounted charge to make it so that the top speed is much less decreased by heavy armor (but their acceleration and turn is, still, like w/ dex) so that eventually you can catch up to an MA even if they kite you. You might need to do draw some intuitive lines, per se, but that's the hard counter to MA, a horse w/ armor that can absorb the arrows and a rider w/ armor that absorbs arrows, too, then just pop dude off his horse and he's bbq. Of course, that doesn't change that people are gonna be running MC then, too, but at least you will have MAs as they were, but they won't be an apex predator anymore.

 

[Tashka]

So is this actually fun for anybody? Seems like the only reliable way to compete vs. Horse Archers is to roll as a Horse Archer. Considering most of the game's content is outdoors in large, open areas that creates an imbalance with... well, every other build that's not Horse Archer. My footie can probably wreck you deep inside a spider cave, but that's about 2% of the game for right now. The other 98%? Horse archers.

Should something be done about this? If so, what? Nerf mounted archery damage perhaps?

Nerfing damage won't do anything, as long as MA can do 1 damage versus a horse it will be a meta. You need MA to initiate combat and dismount your opponents, that's why most footies have it, not because it's strong or something. Until there's a way to travel around the world on foot that doesn't take 2 hours to get anywhere (like some speed buffs or something, it's probably impossible at all) the meta isn't going away.

 

[Teknique]

The players in this video were obviously noob.

After getting used to the MA arrow archs I actually FUCKING LOVE the MA aiming in MO 2.

Its not like i'm just getting wrecked or something and i'm mad

I just think there needs to be a solution to every single person playing an MA. Or the fact that the game just feels fucking awful off of an MA foot hybrid right now.

 

[Kuthara]

The players in this video were obviously noob.

After getting used to the MA arrow archs I actually FUCKING LOVE the MA aiming in MO 2.

Its not like i'm just getting wrecked or something and i'm mad

I just think there needs to be a solution to every single person playing an MA. Or the fact that the game just feels fucking awful off of an MA foot hybrid right now.

It is just a way to initiate the actual fight. You need to be able to get people off their mounts otherwise they would run forever and no one would ever actually get into a fight. MA is just a means to do that. It starts most engagements which then normally always end up on foot.

I mean the guy you are fighting in that video is absolute trash.

 

[GMACK]

mounted mage and mounted melee combat used to be able to do the same thing. but both of them are complete trash when against a mounted archer in MO2. and that was not the case in MO1. It was way more balanced. your missing the point

 

[Kuthara]

mounted mage and mounted melee combat used to be able to do the same thing. but both of them are complete trash when against a mounted archer in MO2. and that was not the case in MO1. It was way more balanced. your missing the point

Have you tried killing a good MM on an MA? They can kite you across the map like its nothing.

 

[Zandragal]

No, you're just bad. The foot fighter isn't ducking for cover and try to heal. The foot fighter gets out a long bow and deletes the MAs mount, put it in mercy mode and deletes the MA with melee before they can do shit. Idk why I have to constantly say the same thing on these forums. Mercenary plate armor takes 8~10 from a MAs short bow with Draco Plate taking even less.

Assuming I'm not shooting back. I've got a Longbow bud.

If you are doing 8-10 dmg you are doing it wrong. I take closer to 30-40 per shot from MAs in full plate, usually Molarium or better with 45 slash / 50 piercing. And shortbow? Rly? Every MA is running Asym bow. Also if the argument is "get end game armor nub" then you have proven my case because it's extremely easy and cheap to craft a 90+ range Asym bow with 100-120 str req. It shouldn't defeat all armors beneath Cronite or even Steel like they are nothing. Add to this that MA only cost 200 primary skillpoints to become the most dominant build in the game and even when they are dismounted they are not at any significant disadvantage vs. pure footies.

Thank you, do not pass go, do not collect 200g.

 

[Zandragal]

Nerfing damage won't do anything, as long as MA can do 1 damage versus a horse it will be a meta. You need MA to initiate combat and dismount your opponents, that's why most footies have it, not because it's strong or something. Until there's a way to travel around the world on foot that doesn't take 2 hours to get anywhere (like some speed buffs or something, it's probably impossible at all) the meta isn't going away.

Nerfing damage from Mounted Archers will:

1. Extend the ability for mounted characters without MA to escape and evade, or at least delay long enough to reach allies. Or provides extra time to dismount and return fire before the horse dies.

2. Addresses the lopsided advantage of MA's vs. foot archers. If MA is dinging for 25 while longbows slap with 50+ the meta shifts rather sharply.

That said they could give plate armors just a flat piercing buff, but that impacts melee balance in unnecessary ways.

 

[Tashka]

Nerfing damage from Mounted Archers will:

1. Extend the ability for mounted characters without MA to escape and evade, or at least delay long enough to reach allies. Or provides extra time to dismount and return fire before the horse dies.

2. Addresses the lopsided advantage of MA's vs. foot archers. If MA is dinging for 25 while longbows slap with 50+ the meta shifts rather sharply.

That said they could give plate armors just a flat piercing buff, but that impacts melee balance in unnecessary ways.

If you can escape and evade without MA vs someone with MA then why would anyone take MA at all? That's exactly what people take MA for in the first place. If they nerf MA to this point then the large part of PvP in this game becomes almost consensual.

Foot archers already have a massive advantage over MA. Smaller hitbox, better maneurability, significantly more damage, better armour.

 

[oykd]

good long bow can 3-4 shot down 125level horse

 

[Emdash]

lol I was just finishing up farming some horses for 100 lore, picked some water to level advanced cooking to 100, too, and was riding home on my lean veela w/ 30 MA and less than 70 archery. Jungle horse, no armor, non max riding skillz cept riding. Someone blasted my horse for 80 , looked behind to see a mola armor mage dood so I shot his horse for bs dmg, we kinda disengaged and he played the mountain to charge a spell. I waited by bush pigs (on the path down to jungle around bakti) cuz he was getting on my non shooting side. Dude started to come in and I popped him w/ 2 arrows for 20-ish. Like long range shots, CHARACTER HITS. Dude probably thought I was fucking good or something LOL cuz he left, but yea I mean... MA is good even at low skill level. I am not mad. Even tho the crosshair aim 'fire point' offends my sense of physics, I agree w/ Tek in that MA is working as intended.

Still yea, I like the level of skill associated with MA, but I do think MC needs to make a comeback for reaaaal. Mounted gets way too much hate IMO and mounted is prol at the lowest level of effectiveness, that's why MA is so high tier. Just keep fleshin' SV! Playing games w/ horses where you can't fight on them is fucking WACK.