Haven needs limits

[Zebeid]

Wipe Haven and its servers every month, including characters, and let people play on it all they want. You could even let free-to-play people on it. Just don't let them bring anything over to the mainland or it will be exploited. Cap the amount of skills that can be gained, like sub vs non-sub, in MO1.

 

[Xunila]

Or even better, no items you can't carry on your person allowed out of Haven.

Or don't allow overloaded players to transfer to Myrland. Then we had a limit of about one stack.

 

[Eldrath]

There's just no valid reason to prevent players bringing everything they have from Haven to Myrland.

Taking everything away from new players is a surefire way to make them quit the game, and the idea that someone will pay for a new account simply to make a new character, level up all his gathering skills, gather loads of resources just to transport them to the mainland only to delete the character and do it all over again is just laughable.

No one is going to do that.

Even if their was a few people that were so afraid of loss that they did do exactly that, the number would be so insignificant that taking everything away from new players is not a justified solution.

Aged like milk.

 

[alfie]

For some reading material.

Haven in MO2

SV will put in restrictions to make Haven unattractive for veteran farming. Which should those be? Haven is supposed to be an noobie island in which you can learn the game in complete safety. So no thievery or ganking. Which means that farming there is much more efficient, since you cannot...

www.mortalonline2.com

Why we don´t need Haven

This is an appeal to push back and/or abandon the concept of “Haven” for Mortal Online 2. I will lay out 3 connected arguments that will show that dedicating development time and resources to this will have a negative impact on the game. 1. Most games do just fine without a tutorial, let alone...

www.mortalonline2.com

You will see the usual suspect with bad ideas and an agenda making the argument for Haven to turn out exactly as it did in the hands of SV.

A lot of good points - the current implementation of Haven really does seem to setup new players with false expectations.

I find it disappointing the amount of people which scream "why are you killing me, I haven't done anything", rather then trying to defend themselves or get away (this occurs even when I'm solo).

As of this I've started getting this really horrible sensation in my chest (where my heart should be?) that I've never experienced before - I think it's what normal people refer to as "guilt". Hopefully it doesn't happen again, it's quite unpleasant.

What if haven was a pre-character generation experience?

Basically give them a generic dream like introduction to the game in haven before making a character...

-snip-

That's a really good suggestion to be honest Although A way they could do it is their character wakes up from a dream and gets off a ship or hut etc on their starting town when they leave Haven. Maybe they have what is in their inventory almost like Haven was them dreaming about where they came from.

I really LOVE the basis of that idea, as it's a more creative way of creating a new character and perhaps establishing some back story, while also letting less experienced players get to grips with the fundamentals & mechanics (two birds one stone).

I get a lot of people are anti-haven (and for good reason), but we shouldn't forget that tutorials are still a players first impression of the game and a tutorial/introduction if well executed is essentially good marketing and sucks players right into the world (as long as it's optional and as long as you can't bring anything of real value into the main world, I have no issue with it).


Though with the direction SV is going with this, it's more of a bandaid over underdeveloped game systems.

It's critical for the game to have systems which incentivize groups to be e.g. anti-pkers (good war dec/guild system/territory), a more indepth reputation/flagging system, to be able to have some control on starter cities & get benefit for supporting a local population (tax, rep etc), real disincentives for being a murderous piece of shit because there's great incentives not to do it (capital punishment isn't the way imo, make it better NOT to bonk every person you see on the head).

 

[Eldrath]

A lot of good points - the current implementation of Haven really does seem to setup new players with false expectations.

I find it disappointing the amount of people which scream "why are you killing me, I haven't done anything", rather then trying to defend themselves or get away (this occurs even when I'm solo).

As of this I've started getting this really horrible sensation in my chest (where my heart should be?) that I've never experienced before - I think it's what normal people refer to as "guilt". Hopefully it doesn't happen again, it's quite unpleasant.






I really LOVE the basis of that idea, as it's a more creative way of creating a new character and perhaps establishing some back story, while also letting less experienced players get to grips with the fundamentals & mechanics (two birds one stone).

I get a lot of people are anti-haven (and for good reason), but we shouldn't forget that tutorials are still a players first impression of the game and a tutorial/introduction if well executed is essentially good marketing and sucks players right into the world (as long as it's optional and as long as you can't bring anything of real value into the main world, I have no issue with it).


Though with the direction SV is going with this, it's more of a bandaid over underdeveloped game systems.

It's critical for the game to have systems which incentivize groups to be e.g. anti-pkers (good war dec/guild system/territory), a more indepth reputation/flagging system, to be able to have some control on starter cities & get benefit for supporting a local population (tax, rep etc), real disincentives for being a murderous piece of shit because there's great incentives not to do it (capital punishment isn't the way imo, make it better NOT to bonk every person you see on the head).

Your last point is very important and was not mentioned enough in previous discussions. I´m glad you bring it up.

In a player and community driven game it is hubris by the devs to think they can come up with a better introduction than the players. A tutorial will always be outdated and only reach so far. Many questions will remain unanswered. Getting new players in contact with experienced players in a personal contact (not the help chat bullshit) and possible into a guild should be the no. 1 priority. Currently Haven does the opposite.

 

[Takehitsu]

Your last point is very important and was not mentioned enough in previous discussions. I´m glad you bring it up.

In a player and community driven game it is hubris by the devs to think they can come up with a better introduction than the players. A tutorial will always be outdated and only reach so far. Many questions will remain unanswered. Getting new players in contact with experienced players in a personal contact (not the help chat bullshit) and possible into a guild should be the no. 1 priority. Currently Haven does the opposite.

I have to agree. From what I have seen happening is lots of newbies are coming together and making newbie guilds with no veterans. They then are going out to Nave getting steamrolled by vets in pvp and they will begin the cycle of pain and leave. Some of the groups and veterans are organizing around this to try and remedy the situation. However, I cannot attest to the success rate.

 

[Amadman]

I have to agree. From what I have seen happening is lots of newbies are coming together and making newbie guilds with no veterans. They then are going out to Nave getting steamrolled by vets in pvp and they will begin the cycle of pain and leave. Some of the groups and veterans are organizing around this to try and remedy the situation. However, I cannot attest to the success rate.

I think it is a good thing they are organizing groups in haven. Its has to be better than starting off alone. At least they have people to try and come together with. I believe these new groups are more likely to bring change than the old blood.

 

[Takehitsu]

I think it is a good thing they are organizing groups in haven. Its has to be better than starting off alone. At least they have people to try and come together with. I believe these new groups are more likely to bring change than the old blood.

I am neutral on that regard simply because I as an old player am bringing an entire group with me who are all new to the game. So it will be interesting to see how things move along, I will say at this point I believe a few changes are necessary for Haven to function as intended. For now, it was great for the stress test. Yet I feel it is not a perfected organism. If there is a way to combine and compromise all the aspects put out here, Most especially something like making the character wake up from a dream with basic gear after leaving Haven something to add a little flare to the story of the players' character itself. They are making their own story no questline or anything.

But also in effect removing the ability to take more than like 80kg from Haven or limiting the currency stacks to a certain amount. Things of that nature maybe one pet. This way their given motivation to move on but they still have enough to say it was in their past. Roleplayers would go crazy with this and non-roleplayers would find it a boon but not gamechanging.

Edit: This will also prevent the hordes of bot/miners from gaining huge sockpiles.

 

[Amadman]

I am neutral on that regard simply because I as an old player am bringing an entire group with me who are all new to the game. So it will be interesting to see how things move along, I will say at this point I believe a few changes are necessary for Haven to function as intended. For now, it was great for the stress test. Yet I feel it is not a perfected organism. If there is a way to combine and compromise all the aspects put out here, Most especially something like making the character wake up from a dream with basic gear after leaving Haven something to add a little flare to the story of the players' character itself. They are making their own story no questline or anything.

But also in effect removing the ability to take more than like 80kg from Haven or limiting the currency stacks to a certain amount. Things of that nature maybe one pet. This way their given motivation to move on but they still have enough to say it was in their past. Roleplayers would go crazy with this and non-roleplayers would find it a boon but not gamechanging.

Edit: This will also prevent the hordes of bot/miners from gaining huge sockpiles.

Agreed.

Honestly I do not think Haven was much of a success. Its basically just a safe Fab with some popups and a few npcs handing out free skills. Its not even clear to new players what those npcs are even doing. I hope they can do much better before a release of any kind.

It does seem to have had some success at bringing some of these new players together before going to the real world. Sure they are not going to get fast tracked like they would if they joined an older group. But it could lead them in different directions than the norm.

 

[Eldrath]

From a role playing perspective Haven is a one-trick pony and there is a reason why it will never be part of lore. It´s silly whichever way you look at it.

Make a good tutorial, make it clear to the player that it is a tutorial. The game starts when you are in Myrland.

 

[Bicorps]

I bump this thread because i think its impotant... because Haven bank are OP.

 

[Xronim]

limit the haven bank, eventually force blue flag in haven, after a time limit.

 

[Kaemik]

Haven bank was bad idea. Remove the bank entirely so you can only have what you carry on you. Problem solved.

With a page of tutorial and simple text tutors, Haven's implementation was entirely premature. There is no tutorial. If we had tutors and your intro page on the mainland Haven would be redundant in it's current form.

 

[Suttner]

Haven bank was bad idea. Remove the bank entirely so you can only have what you carry on you. Problem solved.

With a page of tutorial and simple text tutors, Haven's implementation was entirely premature. There is no tutorial. If we had tutors and your intro page on the mainland Haven would be redundant in it's current form.

so i live in haven and send every week a new made char with a full inventory of waterstone over to bakti?

nothing should be transferred, maybe equipment...
but just basic 10s books then, so its just gonna be crappy gear anyways ^^

 

[Kaemik]

so i live in haven and send every week a new made char with a full inventory of waterstone over to bakti?

Do you know how much value worth of other minerals you would need to trash in order to send a full inventory of waterstone somewhere? If you really want to trash everything else that came from the granum then be my guest.

Remove the bank, solve the problem. There is no significant economical way to abuse Haven without the bank.

 

[Suttner]

Do you know how much value worth of other minerals you would need to trash in order to send a full inventory of waterstone somewhere?

i sent the other stuff on other throwaway chars before, duh

 

[Kaemik]

i sent the other stuff on other throwaway chars before, duh

How many throwaway characters are you making to transport over pig iron and magmum one inventory load at time?

The scenario you are proposing is WAY more of a pain in the butt than occasional gankers on the mainland.

 

[Suttner]

How many throwaway characters are you making to transport over pig iron and magmum one inventory load at time?

The scenario you are proposing is WAY more of a pain in the butt than occasional gankers on the mainland.

what do you mean?
it takes literal seconds to make a char and walk him over to the statues, then trade him whatever and send him over.
have people great him there with trade requests.

Done

 

[Suttner]

best thing about it, i can process stuff from the general fab area pretty much whereever i want, instantly transported

basic skills and knowledge is all you should need to start off in the mainland.

 

[Kaemik]

Yeah. WAY more of a pain in the butt. Assuming the character creation process is a minute and walk time is a minute it's 2 minutes active player processing time per load. Mining can be done semi-afk with a 1s pick and its only seconds to run from rock to rock. Your losses when you die are minimal unless you're doing a high risk / long distance run. (So not granum)

If you're running the multicompter / multibox setup you're describing, you COULD multibox two miner accounts with minimal player input.

Or you could run this convoluted ridiculous system your describing. If you want to do it, do it. I have zero issues with people doing it.