The location of select skill books in difficult to reach locations within the game seems like a good idea. In most cases except for places like Jungle Camp and MK there is a Haven Banker available to players. Haven Bankers for the most part negate the the separation of these skill books. For instance, I know if I leave Haven with 12.5 gold I can spawn in Vadda get Controlled Riding then suicide and head over to Meduli. After I've skilled up (with accelerated skill up I just wait currently) I can ghost back over to Vadda and withdraw gold again for the Swift Riding book, all with hardly any risk. I considered the idea that the initial city that a player spawns in ought to be the only city that allows access to gold made in Haven, but then that may penalize new players who want to switch cities. I considered a ticket that a player could carry to give to a banker but unless it's bound to the character like magic books it's too risky. So I think there might be another idea that partially mitigates this issue which is to have players bind to the Haven Banker in the town they are in like binding to a "Home Priest" with a timer that delays fund transfer for say 1 hour. This would be where the funds are transfered until such time as a player actually takes the time to "Home Bind" to another banker in another town. Yes it's more of a hassle and a time sink but so is haven certain books in difficult to reach locations. Just a thought...
Haven Banks and Skill book locations & ghosting
- Thread starter VeelaVidiVici
- Start date
Whenever I see a post like this and read about different ways people abuse the suicide mechanic I think to myself: "Am I too much of law abiding citizent to think of this level of degeneracy?"
And I mean that as a compliment to all of you. I see it as a level of resourcefulness that I don't posses. Keep doing what you do MO2 community. ❤
As for the Haven banker, yeah that should be nerfed somehow. There was a proposal in few other threads to not have items transfer from Haven to Nave. I like that idea. You get to make a charachter, try different stuff, establish a path for your build and then enter Nave with only your skills, attributes and knowledge. A Haven banker is a bitt too much in my opinion and it does devalue certain items on mainland. Not having your items carry over would make a lot of things more valueable. And having your attributes, skills and knowledge insures that you aren't an absolute punching bag for gankers/griefers (still very much vulnerable though).
So that is my take. No Haven banker altogether.
And I mean that as a compliment to all of you. I see it as a level of resourcefulness that I don't posses. Keep doing what you do MO2 community. ❤
As for the Haven banker, yeah that should be nerfed somehow. There was a proposal in few other threads to not have items transfer from Haven to Nave. I like that idea. You get to make a charachter, try different stuff, establish a path for your build and then enter Nave with only your skills, attributes and knowledge. A Haven banker is a bitt too much in my opinion and it does devalue certain items on mainland. Not having your items carry over would make a lot of things more valueable. And having your attributes, skills and knowledge insures that you aren't an absolute punching bag for gankers/griefers (still very much vulnerable though).
So that is my take. No Haven banker altogether.
Just have to make it extremely clear to people when they log in that nothing is able to be brought back from Haven.
Yes, players have to learn about local banks. And the help text can give all those information e.g. at the Haven banker and with the "move to" option.
I don't really understand these complaints, it's not like there is a haven banker in JC where you can pick up 200g+ of books with no effort. You can get 10-15g in any city that has a haven banker in less than 30 minutes, it's not really a big deal for stuff like this; Even for something like the tindremic knight book in Medudi it only saves you maybe an hour of effort, far less if you consider the time invested in haven to make the gold in the first place.
Complaining is not about some hundred gold coins for books! It's about materials. If you would start MO2 with some weeks in Haven just to gather materials you could get a bank with 50 stacks of Sea Dew (or extracted Sea Dew Leaves) and all the wood types (e.g. Dapplewood) to any city in the game even without a spot with this material in hour distance. Same for material extracted from rocks.
First of all, the more they change Haven the more waste of time it is. This can be seen with the horse bag change. It used to be a great place to farm Pig iron & waterstone, but with horse bags now, it's a massive time sync to farm these materials (albeit in safety). If Calx is removed once again and the Haven horse exploit is fixed, there aren't a lot of things you can do in Haven that will pad your bank anymore except farm gold. And even farming gold is super tedious for the most part, with the methods being picking flowers, farming zombies/pigs, or farming bandits. Flowers and zombies being the fastest way, bandits being terrible due to, again, no horses.
Now, what I believe should really rebalanced is the gold farm rate for some of the lower end mobs in the game. The Haven gold farming issue is NOT the transferable Haven bank, the issue is with the rate that pigs & zombies drop gold to be one of the fastest gold per hour methods in game. If zombies & pigs were brought down significantly across the board, Haven would literally just be a place for new players to level.
I am personally fine with Haven bank overwriting the city you travel to, and no more world bank. I think this makes the most sense. Haven should NOT have a time limit, though. Players should be able to max characters in Haven if they want to. This will drastically lower the number of players who quit due to being griefed in the real world overall, and will increase company profits due to these players staying around longer.
The issue isn't the Haven bank, though, it's the resource allocation in Haven overall & the time to farm gold on low levels mobs.
Now, what I believe should really rebalanced is the gold farm rate for some of the lower end mobs in the game. The Haven gold farming issue is NOT the transferable Haven bank, the issue is with the rate that pigs & zombies drop gold to be one of the fastest gold per hour methods in game. If zombies & pigs were brought down significantly across the board, Haven would literally just be a place for new players to level.
I am personally fine with Haven bank overwriting the city you travel to, and no more world bank. I think this makes the most sense. Haven should NOT have a time limit, though. Players should be able to max characters in Haven if they want to. This will drastically lower the number of players who quit due to being griefed in the real world overall, and will increase company profits due to these players staying around longer.
The issue isn't the Haven bank, though, it's the resource allocation in Haven overall & the time to farm gold on low levels mobs.
Let me be more concise regarding why I've posted this topic. You're correct that there isn't a Haven banker in JC and I pointed that out in the beginning of my initial post. There are several factors that confound good game play.
1. Ghosting from point A to point B is a fast but your character can't take items and gold with them. If you don't ghost and carry gear and gold with you you might die and lose everything or you might not. When you die you lose not only the items but the time to obtain them and travel time.
2. A Haven banker at various locations removes the risk of having to physically transfer items and gold on your character from bank to bank. You are correct that you can make money in every city fairly rapidly but you always have the risk of having someone else gank you while you are farming. Having the money banked at multiple locations removes this "ganking" risk for the most part and the time you could possibly lose because you've died attempting to physically transfer gold and items then dying and having to start again.
3. The challenge and risk at least for some people will be physically bringing the gold needed to places like JC (some books are 60 gold) with out getting ganked by other players or dying to spawns in the jungle, etc...
4. What is the intent of Haven? The answer to this question varies imo. Yes it's to help new players learn the mechanics of the game and perhaps pad their bank in relative peace but it should not be a resource and gold farm for lazy players; one problem being at release you can anticipate that resources will be more difficult to obtain in Haven as more players will be farming them. However, as time passes and less players are in Haven resources will become easier to obtain because nodes won't deplete nearly as rapidly as they do with a higher population. That said I think the 200 gold coin limit should be greatly reduced. The idea of not transferring any gold or items penalizes new players too much imo.
5. I agree with the lower end mob gold farm rate being reduced as somebody else mentioned above.
6. Not sure about stacks of resources transferring but perhaps only allowing crafted items as transfers might solve that issue.
its literally 10 books that you do this for, though. The khurite books, the advanced dendrology books in Fabernum, the tower books (which are still dangerous), and the petrology books in Tindrem/Meduli. The money for these books is farmable within the towns near them. I don’t think it’s enough of an issue to really merit the anxiety people have around have haven bank and people having materials around the world. Also that bank is finite, even if you farm for 6 months for gold, you’ve likely wasted a lot of time (Bc everything can be done faster outside haven with horse bags), that gold/supplies will eventually be gone, and can be lost in the same way as everything else. I’m not sure it’s as broken as people think. It’s just a change of mindset to allow new players a little bit of a leg up and not be constantly ganked until they leave the game. It’a necessary.
Taking away bag sales from Haven would limit the amount of resources transferable as well (you can seriously pad a bank now which isn’t great). Also if calx is removed from haven again, they could tweak catalysts and make it to where the only metals in haven would be small amounts of pig iron & cuprum, and lots of flake stone. Could still stack bank with water stone if you have that grind tolerance, but again, can be done 6x faster in the real world with horse bags.
The issue that gold is transferable from town to town is really just about a handful of books per character. More rare books could be moved to PVP areas to counter this. But the ghost travel + haven bank is simply a change of grind time. You either grind in Haven or grind pigs in the town you ghost to. I mean who cares how people spend their time? The materials in Haven are overall just a waste of time at this point. It essentially gives new players a feel good padding for awhile, that is not infinite, while having almost no effect in the real world.
Decrease gold amount for pigs & zombies, fix horse exploit, tweak catalysts, and everyone will be happy. There’s no need to change Haven bank if these tweaks are made. Otherwise, just overwrite the town they go to with Haven bank and call it a day.
The Haven banker is terrible. There are so many ways it messes with all the little things they've setup mechanically via risk/reward, local banks, and resource distribution.
There are also many ways to game the system there currently which make it not only completely safe to farm without any risk, but actually circumvent mechanics like draining nodes to increase the rate of farming as well.
Seriously, I farmed all the time consuming parts for a half stack of Tungsteel safely in Haven on a beefy Oghmir hopping instances without even thinking about it over the course of a few play sessions, and I'm not nearly as sweaty or try hard as a lot of vets.
My only hope at the moment is that the current implementation is how it is because our dear programmers couldn't figure out how to make the bank copy over to a town of your choosing when you leave before they needed to rush out the Haven patch, but it also hasn't been patched out since and they said nothing about this current implementation being unintended or short lived as far as I recall.
I used to think Haven wasn't a bad idea, later that evolved into realizing that if it's designed for new players learning the game then it's completely ass backwards to teach them to play a completely different game with a whole different set of inconsistent rules, hoping they'll like it enough for all it's depth that they will accept the brutal high risk world that the actual game presents on the mainland.
The true nature of MO, referring to it's risk of loss at every corner, isn't necessarily something a potential new player will develop a taste for if it isn't something they were looking for in the first place in my opinion, so spending all this time to coddle someone who will then leave when they do finally lose something significant doesn't seem like time we'll invested, and thinking that if only they made starting easier maybe more would stick around....ya maybe some...but it's terribly hard to quantify, and in trying to implement haven, instead of fixing what was bad for starting players on the mainland, they've introduced all these other avenues for creative people to circumvent intended mechanics of this game, because SV is so short sighted they never seem to see the long term effects these easy street mechanics will have on their game...it's been going on since TC release In MO.
Credit to those who saw this coming and ranted and raved about it long before it was put in, you were right.
There are also many ways to game the system there currently which make it not only completely safe to farm without any risk, but actually circumvent mechanics like draining nodes to increase the rate of farming as well.
Seriously, I farmed all the time consuming parts for a half stack of Tungsteel safely in Haven on a beefy Oghmir hopping instances without even thinking about it over the course of a few play sessions, and I'm not nearly as sweaty or try hard as a lot of vets.
My only hope at the moment is that the current implementation is how it is because our dear programmers couldn't figure out how to make the bank copy over to a town of your choosing when you leave before they needed to rush out the Haven patch, but it also hasn't been patched out since and they said nothing about this current implementation being unintended or short lived as far as I recall.
I used to think Haven wasn't a bad idea, later that evolved into realizing that if it's designed for new players learning the game then it's completely ass backwards to teach them to play a completely different game with a whole different set of inconsistent rules, hoping they'll like it enough for all it's depth that they will accept the brutal high risk world that the actual game presents on the mainland.
The true nature of MO, referring to it's risk of loss at every corner, isn't necessarily something a potential new player will develop a taste for if it isn't something they were looking for in the first place in my opinion, so spending all this time to coddle someone who will then leave when they do finally lose something significant doesn't seem like time we'll invested, and thinking that if only they made starting easier maybe more would stick around....ya maybe some...but it's terribly hard to quantify, and in trying to implement haven, instead of fixing what was bad for starting players on the mainland, they've introduced all these other avenues for creative people to circumvent intended mechanics of this game, because SV is so short sighted they never seem to see the long term effects these easy street mechanics will have on their game...it's been going on since TC release In MO.
Credit to those who saw this coming and ranted and raved about it long before it was put in, you were right.
That is honestly the most devalued part. Yeah books don't cost that much in game money, but by ghoting you bypass the guilds controling the area, any tolls they may have put in place. Maybe your guild isn't on good terms with another that controls the books you need, or there is an enemy / RPK guild along the way. This is all content that players make that defines MO. Content that can be entirely skipped in a significant way with the Haven bank in it's current state. It's not the in game gold value of the book that's the issue, it's the experience of getting the book you need being devalued. Less gameplay in gereal basically.
True, if farming in Haven is made way less profitable it won't be as much of an issue, but at least locking your Haven bank to the chosen city bank I would like to see implemented. The journey to get the book and resources and the risks that come with them are a big part of the game.
I would rather like to see that more of those books will get avalible through secret Quests. Books should be region specific, but to buy them for Gold seems a bit boring. Traveling to the Jungle camp with money is a quest, but it is boring to go there and they immediatly leave the place and and ride back. Let us rater pay an NPC for specific Informations, or for a specific Item to start a Quest to get the Materials the NPC trade the book for. Maybe an Item to extract a specifiv Material out of a Monster Carcass, or let us collect some trophys of specific Monsters, so that we need to travel to the Jungle with Gold, but have to do some Tasks to get the book. Too much Potential is wasted, if we can buy too many books for Gold. It is more fun if you build a small group, to travel to the jungle and have to stay there for some time. Maybe integrate the Sator Lake and the Sator City into the Quest. This places were not interesting enough in MO1. Those should be Hotspots in the Jungle. Pay some Money for a Key to another Trollcave would eb a good Quest starter. Or if we pay for the Info about a specific Place with A chest, where we can find a Key for the entrance, which channge every Day. A key for aPlace that is normally closed, in which we can find those specific Materials, for which the NPC will trade us the Book for. Maybe this Quests could increase the reputation of the Town and some Books are only avalible forPlayers with a good Reputation.
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Why Haven need a bank transfer let people just transfer with the stuff in the invetory and give them BIG FAT red WARNING SIGNS WITH 2 yes i agree buttons and one YES IM AWARE that everything in the haven bank is lost if i transfer.
Problem Solved.
Problem Solved.
Griefing new players is not "making content" but I will agree that it does in a sense define MO.