Fairly Simple Fix To Current Racial Balance Issues

[Hodo]

None of this is useful to me (or anyone but humans). Because I am a Dex Alverin mage. Not Human. Even if I were a human I would not want this. They are already the most versatile builds in the game and you want to give them 400 more points for free? So they can accomplish even more??? Thats op broken.


You are such an "Incompetent build maker" you are asking for 400 points for free!!!! WHAT THE FUCK LMAO.

Also Ive said it once Ill say it again. There is no such thing as pure mage build. (there is but its survivability is a complete joke) You are forced into going dagger, or tamer mage. You know its a fact.
You have this idea that because you can cast fulm you are a "Mage" Build. But yet you rely on FF, archery, or a pet. as your primary damage output.

A Mage build to me (and should be to everyone) , Is nothing but magic, No dagger, no pet, no heavy armor, no archery, Just pure magic. Anything lesser is a hybrid.
That is why I am pushing for armor/carry weight to effect move speed. Just as it does with swimming.
Also for a lesser mana regen penetality. Because even as My full mage build with 100int, and 86psy + 4 from trinkets and +3 bouns mana from trinkets. I have 193 mana. I only get 3 mana per tick. And I can only cast 4 fulms, or 5 Tlash b4 I'm out of mana (not taking into account of me having to heal 94hp If get hit once). If I have 2 zombies with me it also impacts my mana very hard (with 100 walker knowledge, Also dont even get me started on the long time to even get the zombies up and ready to fight). Then im looking at like 3 Tlash.

So with all this being said, Make an actual mage build and use it. Before you try and start saying buff hybrids like you know how to balance Mage builds. Bc a human could possible be the best Mage (Pure mage) build in the game. (I did not ever play a human because I was drawn in with the false promise of a balanced speed game play, when in reality Dex FFs need a nurf.)
View attachment 5095

If you're the MLK, then I am the Malcom X of mages.

I am tired of all of the crying about mounted mages. Its not my damned fault you chose to build a min-maxed foot build and the ONE counter to you is a fat mage on a mount. Well perhaps if you had built a character that had some kind of defense.... like psyche.

I am also tired of all of these EU players with sub 100ms ping saying everything is fine, when those on the west coast of the US or down in South America and Australia are dealing with a quarter second ping and unstable connections on a GOOD day, now have to deal with getting kicked because we have an unusually high packet loss. Sorry I cant walk to the server and connect to it. Perhaps if we had a continent based out of the West Coast or Mountain region of the US of A.

And then the additional crying by foot fighters who run around in steel, chronite or oghmium about how a mage can hit them and ignore their armor... but yet the mage sacrifices all forms of defense just to do that, while they lose NOTHING. What a whopping 15-20% stamina regen, LMFAORDtSOF (Laughing My Ass Off Rolling Down the Street on Fire) yet that mage if they put on ANYTHING they lose 20-90% of their regen. I dont hear foot fighters losing 90% of their stamina regen if they are wearing 10kg of armor. Hell they dont even lose 10%. Yes I have a foot fighter.

Oh but mages only need 50s worth of reagents to be effective.

Fact is ANY build can run out with less than a gold worth of gear and kill a noob.

 

[Elijah]

None of this is useful to me (or anyone but humans). Because I am a Dex Alverin mage. Not Human. Even if I were a human I would not want this. They are already the most versatile builds in the game and you want to give them 400 more points for free? So they can accomplish even more??? Thats op broken.


You are such an "Incompetent build maker" you are asking for 400 points for free!!!! WHAT THE FUCK LMAO.

Also Ive said it once Ill say it again. There is no such thing as pure mage build. (there is but its survivability is a complete joke) You are forced into going dagger, or tamer mage. You know its a fact.
You have this idea that because you can cast fulm you are a "Mage" Build. But yet you rely on FF, archery, or a pet. as your primary damage output.

I was about to suggest that he stop making build guides, but you already did this. Although, I don't agree with the thoughts on what constitutes a mage.

I think a mage is any build that devotes a majority of their primaries to magic. Dagger mages included. A hybrid is more likely to shed some magic primaries for armor training and the like.

That being said,

If you don't think humans get enough free primaries already, then we're living in different realities. Some of the best players I know are humans, and a part of what makes them so good is their versatility. FF humans can take up enough magic to purify/corrupt/heal a little with no extra investment, and still take archery. Human mages can take literally every magic school in the game and still have extra primaries. The only part where they are kind of gimped is that they can't quite match up to ohgmir and thursar damage in FF, but they are certainly the best mages at this point. More mage damage than alvarin, slightly less than ohgmir, but much faster, and can have every magic school that is currently in game. Also, 6kg armor weight.

Plenty of people play each race at this point, so the whole crux of the argument is moot. They are going to buff humans to get the numbers more even, but they definitely aren't going to give you +400 free primaries.

Also, calling yourself a 'build maker' is cringe. Not everyone needs to make a min-maxed build based on what YOU think is appropriate. Especially since it seems that, at best, you only have a loose grasp on the realities of being each of the different races.

 

[Hodo]

I was about to suggest that he stop making build guides, but you already did this. Although, I don't agree with the thoughts on what constitutes a mage.

I think a mage is any build that devotes a majority of their primaries to magic. Dagger mages included. A hybrid is more likely to shed some magic primaries for armor training and the like.

That being said,

If you don't think humans get enough free primaries already, then we're living in different realities. Some of the best players I know are humans, and a part of what makes them so good is their versatility. FF humans can take up enough magic to purify/corrupt/heal a little with no extra investment, and still take archery. Human mages can take literally every magic school in the game and still have extra primaries. The only part where they are kind of gimped is that they can't quite match up to ohgmir and thursar damage in FF, but they are certainly the best mages at this point. More mage damage than alvarin, slightly less than ohgmir, but much faster, and can have every magic school that is currently in game. Also, 6kg armor weight.

Plenty of people play each race at this point, so the whole crux of the argument is moot. They are going to buff humans to get the numbers more even, but they definitely aren't going to give you +400 free primaries.

Also, calling yourself a 'build maker' is cringe. Not everyone needs to make a min-maxed build based on what YOU think is appropriate. Especially since it seems that, at best, you only have a loose grasp on the realities of being each of the different races.

The only human races that suck are Sarducaan and Khurite. They are basically not good enough at anything to be useful. Khurites suck as hybrids, arent strong enough to be good melee, not fast enough to be dex fighters, not decent MAs or MMs or MCs. Kallards, Tindrimic and Sidoians do all of those better.

The Sarducaan is only OK at one thing.. Fat mage... but not even really at that.

 

[Kaemik]

A Mage build to me (and should be to everyone) , Is nothing but magic, No dagger, no pet, no heavy armor, no archery, Just pure magic. Anything lesser is a hybrid...

...Bc a human could possible be the best Mage

So you think anything with any melee in it is a mage, and mages shouldn't run blocking, and also pets aren't for real mages, and you also think humans are the best mage build.

Yeah... so fairly slow builds with no blocking and no pet to screen for them. Real smart. Run it and tell me how it works.

Also if you did want to stick to your ludicrous idea of a REAL mage, you could invest the extra points in more magic schools. There are a ton more on the way.

As to my merits as a build maker. I was the first person saying Khurites were garbage when they were meta. There have been zero nerfs to Khurites since I originally made that declaration. 90% of these forums were shouting me down and calling me an idiot. I have a pretty good track record of being ahead of these forums when it comes to discovering the future meta. Probably because I actually look at the data behind most this stuff.

 

[Highlander]

Thur-Khur isnt a wish.com version. 102dex 226 cs and 25% dmg bonus and smoller hitbox 187cm and 30psy.

 

[Hodo]

So you think anything with any melee in it is a mage, and mages shouldn't run blocking, and also pets aren't for real mages, and you also think humans are the best mage build.

Yeah... so fairly slow builds with no blocking and no pet to screen for them. Real smart. Run it and tell me how it works.

Also if you did want to stick to your ludicrous idea of a REAL mage, you could invest the extra points in more magic schools. There are a ton more on the way.

As to my merits as a build maker. I was the first person saying Khurites were garbage when they were meta. There have been zero nerfs to Khurites since I originally made that declaration. 90% of these forums were shouting me down and calling me an idiot. I have a pretty good track record of being ahead of these forums when it comes to discovering the future meta. Probably because I actually look at the data behind most this stuff.

Note he said, "COULD BE" According to English comprehension the word "could" implies possibility not a sure thing.

Also his definition of a mage is very similar to mine, a pure mage does not have anything other than magic for skills. As there is zero room in their build for anything else. My main is a mage, pure mage, I have ecuminical and spiritism at 100. Why you ask, because I cast EVERY spell including resurrection when needed and even the currently laughable Earthquake. As a pure mage a fat mage even, you should not be on foot, ever, ever. If you are you will lose.

Foot mages are rare, especially pure mages. But I have seen them, most are buldging sheevras with necromancy and ecu magic. And they are quite effective, but they are pretty useless in very mobile fights where things change very quickly over large distances as they are slow to cover large distances, unlike the mounted fat mage.

 

[Kaemik]

Note he said, "COULD BE" According to English comprehension the word "could" implies possibility not a sure thing.

Also his definition of a mage is very similar to mine, a pure mage does not have anything other than magic for skills. As there is zero room in their build for anything else. My main is a mage, pure mage, I have ecuminical and spiritism at 100. Why you ask, because I cast EVERY spell including resurrection when needed and even the currently laughable Earthquake. As a pure mage a fat mage even, you should not be on foot, ever, ever. If you are you will lose.

Foot mages are rare, especially pure mages. But I have seen them, most are buldging sheevras with necromancy and ecu magic. And they are quite effective, but they are pretty useless in very mobile fights where things change very quickly over large distances as they are slow to cover large distances, unlike the mounted fat mage.

I suppose thats the difference. I consider a sheevra dagger mage more of a "real mage" than a mounted mage. You're spending like 7-20 attibute points on strength depending on the dagger you run and 200 actives (minus attribute bonus) on blocking and daggers for the ability to fight back if forced into a melee fight.

But what you're gaining is considerably MORE battlefield maneuverability than a MM in the majority of the map that isn't flat featureless ground (because alvarin can swim, jump off cliffs, jump over obstacles while spinting, and maneuver around terrain obstacles way better than any mounted opponent) and no cast speed penalty. By the time you factor in cast speed I think the spell damage you gained going obese is all lost.

A mounted fat mage spends 200 points on controlled riding and mounted magery, then suffers major cast speed penalties and is completely incapable of fighting in places like GK. Also if dismounted = dead your build is automatically trash at team fights because your mount will die before you get the opportunity to heal it if it faces a halfway decent archer volley.

To put it bluntly. No. A human build without 100 blocking could not be a good build for a primary combat main until ghost scouting makes it back in. Because you're completely useless in too many scenarios. Also I had kind of just assumed that if running 100 blocking = "not real mage" then being mountbound would as well. Which makes ANY build considered a "real mage" entirely worthless.

 

[Kaemik]

Thur-Khur isnt a wish.com version. 102dex 226 cs and 25% dmg bonus and smoller hitbox 187cm and 30psy.

First numbers are Thur Kal, second numbers are Thur Khur. The calculated numbers are the % difference.

Combat Sprint: 419 / 422 = 0.9929 (0.71% slower)
Health: 215 / 211 = 1.0190 (1.90% more health)
Damage Bonus: 133* / 130 = 1.0230 (2.30% more damage)
Stamina: 367 / 367 = Same stamina
Height: 220 / 206 = 1.0679 (6.79% bigger hitbox)

*133 is because it's a 33% damage bonus added to 100% of regular damage. The rest of the equation follows the same logic

Kallard and Khurite are essentially the same build. Thur/Kal and Thur/Khur are REALLY the same build because they're two incredibly similar races except with 50% of their stats risar making them exactly matched for that half.

As with the base human races though, the speed is too small to really make a difference. Even more extreme in this example than the 1.5% difference found in the humans. What little difference there is between these favors the Kallard. If you're really concerned about the hitbox you can always not max the height of the Thur/Khal.

If your plan is to not max height though, there is a race called Ohgmirs you really should be playing.

 

[Highlander]

First numbers are Thur Kal, second numbers are Thur Khur. The calculated numbers are the % difference.

Combat Sprint: 419 / 422 = 0.9929 (0.71% slower)
Health: 215 / 211 = 1.0190 (1.90% more health)
Damage Bonus: 133* / 130 = 1.0230 (2.30% more damage)
Stamina: 367 / 367 = Same stamina
Height: 220 / 206 = 1.0679 (6.79% bigger hitbox)

*133 is because it's a 33% damage bonus added to 100% of regular damage. The rest of the equation follows the same logic

Kallard and Khurite are essentially the same build. Thur/Kal and Thur/Khur are REALLY the same build because they're two incredibly similar races except with 50% of their stats risar making them exactly matched for that half.

As with the base human races though, the speed is too small to really make a difference. Even more extreme in this example than the 1.5% difference found in the humans. What little difference there is between these favors the Kallard. If you're really concerned about the hitbox you can always not max the height of the Thur/Khal.

If your plan is to not max height though, there is a race called Ohgmirs you really should be playing.

Bro, thur-khurite only lean and 184cm. ofc is bad compared with same weight and height. thur-khur is the fastest killer machine. 102dex

 

[Kaemik]

Bro, thur-khurite only lean and 184cm. ofc is bad compared with same weight and height. thur-khur is the fastest killer machine. 102dex

That's an apples and oranges comparison. If you're going to compare that way you want a lean thur-khal at minimum height as well.

If you ARE going to compare that way, I'd also definitely run a side by side of lean vs stout as lean is never worth it for a fighter.

Big numbers in dex make for tiny numbers when you divide differences in combat sprint to see actual speed difference the way I do. That's where you're going wrong.

 

[Highlander]

That's an apples and oranges comparison. If you're going to compare that way you want a lean thur-khal at minimum height as well.

If you ARE going to compare that way, I'd also definitely run a side by side of lean vs stout as lean is never worth it for a fighter.

Big numbers in dex make for tiny numbers when you divide differences in combat sprint to see actual speed difference the way I do. That's where you're going wrong.

play the game not the mortaldata

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

All I know Is Staff Magic when using it as melee should not go off of STG, It should be a mix of INT and Psy. IMO.

It should not be the end all tho. Still requiring FF skills to use 100% effectively. (Blocking, Feint, and skills that reduce stamana.) But if You need like 100STG to do decent damage (20 to steel) Im be mad as fuccckkkk.

 

[Kaemik]

I have. I have played:

Multiple types of foot mage, dagger mage, and light hybrid.
Multiple types of foot hybrid.
Every clade as FF
Multiple types of MA
Multiple types MC
Multiple types of MM
Multiple types of Mounted Hybrid
MANY variants of beast master

I will say as someone whose specialty is data gathering and build testing, I haven't ever truly mastered a single build in the way someone who gets one character and sticks with it does. But what I have found is those type of players often are the ones saying "_____ has no weakness" and I always know they are wrong because having played every major build in the game, I've gotten to see how people counter me when I play them.

And while I have not personally mastered any build type I've worked in conjunction with people who have mastered their builds to help with their characters. I had the privilege of listening to someone say "Maybe I should roll a dex build like you" while fighting a full Kallard MA build I had designed on foot.

Dex is overvalued. There is actually a player skill element to creating space people sometimes mistake as dex. But it's a placebo effect. Only alvarin have any true speed advantage and even theirs come mostly from creative use of terrain. And once you realize that you can play a "dex fighter" as a kallard (Or a Thur/Kal in this case) you become a better fighter simply by breaking down your own self-imposed limitations.

If your concern is hitbox size, that is a valid concern... between an Ohgmir and a Thursar. Thursars are giant damage cannons and until they amp up their clades a bit the good version of a small Thursar is an Ohgmir. The small difference you see between Thur/Khur and Thur/Khal will mean absolutely nothing in melee and only give a slight advantage in ranged fights. And as a thursar your job in ranged fights is to close and turn it into a melee fight as 100% of your clade bonuses are either generic or melee only.

 

[Hodo]

play the game not the mortaldata

I can tell you from experience that the last time a Thur-Khur was relevant in PVP was Mortal Online 1.

Currently yes Thur-Khur are only slightly faster than a Thur-Kal, only slightly weaker, and slightly less hit points. BUT why would you lose so much in favor of the gains from a Thur-Kal or even a Thur-Sid? The meager speed gain from dex is at best laughable, "oh go lean and you will be fast!" I have heard that so many times, and the 107dex you have wont make you fast enough to catch anything that matters, and wont make you fast enough to get away from anything else. Hell a pure tindrem can get 102dex without going lean, and 107 if lean and have more attributes to work with, but doesnt mean it is a great build.

 

[Kaemik]

There is a universal rule I go by with builds right now.

ALWAYS max your available dex.

NEVER sacrifice other build critical stats to chase a higher dex cap.

This rule is true for every single possible decision related to making a good build (race, weight, age etc.) People look at a build and say "OMG THIS BUILD HAS 15 MORE DEX!!!" and have no idea how little movement speed that actually translates to. How little ANYTHING that translates to. Yes if you just dump dex you will move like a turtle. But even the difference between 90 and 120 only means so much if you aren't factoring in Alvarin clades.

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

There is a universal rule I go by with builds right now.

ALWAYS max your available dex.

NEVER sacrifice other build critical stats to chase a higher dex cap.

This rule is true for every single possible decision related to making a good build (race, weight, age etc.) People look at a build and say "OMG THIS BUILD HAS 15 MORE DEX!!!" and have no idea how little movement speed that actually translates to. How little ANYTHING that translates to. Yes if you just dump dex you will move like a turtle. But even the difference between 90 and 120 only means so much if you aren't factoring in Alvarin clades.

If you ask me, Dex Is a fucking Joke. And it needs a to give more stamina, and get rid of the 450 speed cap

 

[Kaemik]

If you ask me, Dex Is a fucking Joke. And it needs a to give more stamina, and get rid of the 450 speed cap

Fairly true. Out of morbid curiosity because I haven't done it for awhile I just compared a 30yo stout Blainn with a skinny 31 yo (Remember age clade makes this 1 point better than 18yo) pure veela. So the slowest good foot-fighter build in the game with an absolutely trash max dex dumpster fire. But I didn't give the veela it's speed clades since we're measuring the value of dex. I also didn't give the Ohg it's +2 Max dex clade as it's really not worth it for a fighter TBH.

442 / 415 = 1.065 (The veela is 6.5% faster)

That is 131 dex vs 85. A 46 point difference. And people want to act like 5 or 10 points of dex makes a real difference.

 

[Highlander]

i play an oghmir 87 dex and a thur khur 102dex and trust me, every point in dex matters when u sticky a veela bandaging front of u in offcombat. with the oghmir u can only hope he crashes midfight lol. instead the 102 build with a nice longhandle wepon have bigger chance to hit them to the death. speed matters for the sprints . OFC thats my opnion based on a 1vX prospective where speed, min size and thurs clades works good togheter.
. In big fights dex doesnt matter much, and HP and DMG bonus are the first thing to consider.

 

[2Op4Scrubs]

Fairly true. Out of morbid curiosity because I haven't done it for awhile I just compared a 30yo stout Blainn with a skinny 31 yo (Remember age clade makes this 1 point better than 18yo) pure veela. So the slowest good foot-fighter build in the game with an absolutely trash max dex dumpster fire. But I didn't give the veela it's speed clades since we're measuring the value of dex. I also didn't give the Ohg it's +2 Max dex clade as it's really not worth it for a fighter TBH.

442 / 415 = 1.065 (The veela is 6.5% faster)

That is 131 dex vs 85. A 46 point difference. And people want to act like 5 or 10 points of dex makes a real difference.

Yeah this is complete bull shit as fuck.
I hate dex ffs. Nurf them please.

 

[Elijah]

There is a universal rule I go by with builds right now.

ALWAYS max your available dex.

NEVER sacrifice other build critical stats to chase a higher dex cap.

This rule is true for every single possible decision related to making a good build (race, weight, age etc.) People look at a build and say "OMG THIS BUILD HAS 15 MORE DEX!!!" and have no idea how little movement speed that actually translates to. How little ANYTHING that translates to. Yes if you just dump dex you will move like a turtle. But even the difference between 90 and 120 only means so much if you aren't factoring in Alvarin clades.

This is why I'm obese alvarin. I found that the 450 movement speed I used to get wasn't so worth it because you still get stick backed if you are foolish enough to let people get close to you, and then you're likely dead before you have a weapon out.

Obese sheevra, hands down, has the best int:speed ratio. Fast as fuck, but slightly less int than humans, and about 10 less than that fatest ohgmirs. Problem is that I can't actually use weapons with my build. Just parry, so I'm kind of stuck in a spot until we get moves like airburst that can create some much needed space. I've managed to get it to work out really well though, and I can always drop some weight fairly easily and take daggers back to be a super fast dagger mage again.

Dagger mage just isn't what calls to me though. That's why I've changed pretty much everything about my initial build. I want to be a fireball slinging, teleporting, undead raising mage who isn't held back by investing in melee.

If you're feeling like a real anarchistic mage, then unbind rmb and lmb and make them spells. Call me a psychopath as much as you want, but I love it. It really hammers in the fact that you aren't viable in melee, and you should avoid it and run from footies. Helps get you in the defensive mindset that mages need to have currently.