dec bans, why are we perm banning for communication policy/gem harassment and ban evasion.

[poorconsumer]

Given all of the insurmountable hurdles MO has to face w/ one server, one world issue + their wonky engine, 'unfair' game play is probably the final straw for most people. The nature of the game is so cut throat, that cheating is kind of like PEDs in sports: an open secret. I'd be surprised to know of many players in MO history who were 'factors' and didn't benefit either directly from cheating or from being aligned with cheaters. Talking about purely competitively.

This could be an amazing PvP game. People can adapt to just about anything, if your disadvantage is x, just do y, etc, if you really wanna play high tier comp.

The game is 'growing' (SV still was too greedy to put their game at 19.99 heh,) but watch it bleed out, just as it always does.

I can say "lol yeabut UR CHEATING IN MORTAL ONLINE" or feel the salt they must be feeling when they STILL LOSE (but we all know, something is wrong w/ my brain,) but over time, they aren't going to?

This is a marathon MMO. It is going to continue to destroy the game. It's a cycle. Props to SV for adding RMT content to incentivize more cheating! Very ugly to have this on the front page of forum.

MO is very dynamic, very complex, even if some of the mechanics are weird. Everything put together, it's something with a stupid-high skill cap. Imagine investing 10k hours or whatever into your craft just to get duped out or hacked out. Obviously, you're not gonna quit at that point, cuz you're still GOOD, but the trajectory of your 'greatness' will change and, in my opinion, it is SO IMPACTFUL to have this happen to people (who either decide to 'go to the dark side' or just curb their competitive nature,) that it alters the whole game world and overall game health.

It's a big part of the 'toxic community' meme, even if not directly. It's the number 1 reason (IMO,) no matter what anyone says, that MO will never be what it should be, NOT LAG, NOT GM FAVORITISM, NOT SUB, etc.

And yet, not only do people get banned and come back (but we trust them not to do the same things again, of course,) but we actually have camps of people who a sympathetic to those who 'just made a mistake.'

I'm not gonna play the good person card, but I can say competition is a big driving force for me. With gaming, it's actually relaxing to get good comp. I have competed long enough that losing doesn't even bother me. I just wanna go at it, you know? In anything. Just for fun, to test our limits, whatever. It makes 0 sense to ever cheat in competition. You're not competing, then. You're wagging your dick and living a lie. GG.

I understand there will always be an upward climb to combat all of the, to quote Albie, problematics w/ MO and it's pro-cheating population, but they should be slamming everyone they catch. It's too important to the 'fair competition' crowd.

At this point, try to take a step back and look at how many 'advantageous situations' that have propelled people to positions they will probably never lose. That's with-or-without exploit/cheating, just game malfunctioning. IT'S A DAMN SHAME.

But yea... the last thing they (not even gonna say we anymore cuz bleee) need is a second chance program. haha. #cmonson.

Get this shit off the front page. You're losing potential customers.

removing cheaters doesn't save the integrity of the game or the match if the match comes to completion and then punishment is applied.

once we move past this, and realize exploiting game mechanics are first the fault of the developers and referees who miss the foul play, remove the affected content and create systems and structure to actually referee the game in a meaningful way where exploitation and duping doesn't affect the outcome of a match you'll see how unnecessary it is to permanently punish a weak minded exploiter who is incapable of exploiting if no exploits are available. Yes ban exploiters, there is absolutely no reason to do three strikes with exploiters, you abuse, your account is deleted, buy another one, the extent of the damage from the exploits is the sole responsibility of the developers and referees to limit. Hackers...HWID ban, don't ever come back your head is broken, when you visit space forget your suit please.

Not that any story is needed but back during Easter of ~2009, RuneScape exploit released that abused a PvP mechanic that allowed people to gain EP a form of pvp system that rewarded players who lost money. briefly explained, if you lost 10M in loot, your EP would go up to compensate and your next kill/kills would have the potential to drop enormous bonus loot. There would be a cap on how much you needed to lose. skipping how it was done cuz it requires game knowledge, afterwords many people got banned for the exploit as it happened over easter nobody was there to deal with the situation and Sparc Mac ended up getting banned for this as one of the larger abusers. 15 years later, he still exists in the game as a large content creater...

In this system, Sparc Mac gets banned, all his accounts after get banned, he never gets to participate and he may have very well continued to break rules and be toxic after. But his bans after words, if he received any came because of the actions he took on them, not the action he took before. And nobody ever did the Easter glitch again...why? it was fixed and so to permanently ban someone who cannot repeat the behavior, which he wouldn't have been capable of doing if it wasn't made possible by the developer anyways, makes no sense. It was fair to ban him, it was fair to ban all that got banned, and I can tell you they didn't ban as many as they should have and they didn't repair the damage it caused, if it caused much at all to the economy.

He was a little shit for exploiting, everyone who does is. I blame first the developers, second the weak people who abuse in their shitty little voice comms with their giddiness and girly laughter as they think they are getting away with something. but i know these people are little fucking bitches and the referees should catch it soon enough, ban them, repair the damage, fix the bug and move on.

Here's whats actually terrible though, developers who intentionally ignore exploits or create them for friends/themselves. Exploits that get abused for extended periods of time from neglect of the referees. Constant undermining of economical systems putting huge amounts of stress on the market, deflated gold prices on the black market with exorbitant market prices on rares/high teir items. This isn't caused BY the players, its created by the developers, maintained by the developers and abused by a few people. banning those players and pretending a harsh punishment fixes anything is a complete bait and switch to pretend anything is okay when the system is completely devastated.

TLDR: Don't HWID ban exploiters, catch them early, fix broken mechanics. HWID ban hackers. Fixing what's broken makes for better player experience, not banning players who exploit what's broken.

 

[poorconsumer]

Will be usefull to have a ban sistem like fortnite, witch bans the machine and you cant play the game on that PC ever again

HWID bans for hackers just adds to the expense (which they pay) but also the exposure to risk required to cheat as these people download normally potentially seriously damaging software and run it through the help and guidance of the seller/his community. So yes, if they are not HWID banning hackers that would be a shame and i'd like to know.

 

[Grudge Bringer]

LISTEN, THE BEST THING is going to a hacker forum for MO2 to see the whining and crying over how well morderated Mortal Online 2 - they literally RAGE about how aggressive GMs fucking follow you around to see if your up to shady shit.

They are soo fucking pissed at how MO2 is not MO1 and a lot of them CRY and LIE on these forums as well under the guise of some bullshit moral premise.

I think SV needs to sue hackers/dupers in oblivion. Off with their heads.
Make their lives living fucking hell.
Hacker community is cancer for all games.

 

[poorconsumer]

LISTEN, THE BEST THING is going to a hacker forum for MO2 to see the whining and crying over how well morderated Mortal Online 2 - they literally RAGE about how aggressive GMs fucking follow you around to see if your up to shady shit.

They are soo fucking pissed at how MO2 is not MO1 and a lot of them CRY and LIE on these forums as well under the guise of some bullshit moral premise.

I think SV needs to sue hackers/dupers in oblivion. Off with their heads.
Make their lives living fucking hell.
Hacker community is cancer for all games.

that is great to hear haha.

 

[Emdash]

removing cheaters doesn't save the integrity of the game or the match if the match comes to completion and then punishment is applied.



TLDR: Don't HWID ban exploiters, catch them early, fix broken mechanics. HWID ban hackers. Fixing what's broken makes for better player experience, not banning players who exploit what's broken.

Can't speak on SV and what they knew or when they knew it, but yes, it does. Even if it doesn't, it creates the illusion which helps overall competitive confidence. Nothing is fair. I was telling my friend, who was getting down on the game, it's not meant to be fair. It's just about taking lumps sometimes.

They do need to delete a lot of mats, but, they don't have the ability to find out what to delete (and risk upsetting people by being overzealous.) Due to the scope of the game, they don't have the ability to patch the holes, either. This is a decade long issue.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the people we are calling 'hackers' are just people using tools. I don't see how duping is any different, tbh. I can see how jumping on something like glitched mobs could get muddy, but a smarter thing would be to just roll back the gains from said mobs during the time period, unfort, they do not have that ability.

All PC games do have hacking, more or less. I was a console kid first. Seen plenty of wild stuff, tho. PC is in general a shit show. You take a game like MO with so much stuff going on, such a small staff, it's just harder/impossible to police it in real time. It's arguably not possible with the logs they have, either.

I just don't understand why you want to let people back in. I am not moved by your story haha. I think if people did something like insult a GM and got banned or something, sure, they should be let back, but the whole... you get perma'd then you just buy another acct, I'm not seeing how that is good.

Funny thing is, with a proper key logger, they could probably spot people who came back on other machines or whatever. I would be very surprised if the way people play can't be forensically analyzed, especially with such a small pool of people. The way people set their buttons, who they talk to, how they type, their ping... it's circumstantial, but it could easily pin someone down even with a masked IP. I really think SV should get workin' on stuff like that if they want the game to be decent.

And I still think they should delete a bunch of mats. It's really sad people are against a wipe because it doesn't take long to spec up, and it certainly doesn't take long to start creating mats. Sure, you could be sitting on genuine gains, and that's cool, but I don't understand why you couldn't take that L for the long-term health of the game. Unless, for some reason, you don't think you could get the gains again. Not to mention, the game was dead/alted for a lot of the time, too. Makes 0 sense to me, if the game ever gets semi-active, that they wouldn't do that. The game was designed for MORE PEOPLE, NO ALTS, and they have fixed at least SOME of the problems. Then just go in hard on people who exploit. Again, with proper logs and a team to flag inconsistencies/top pvp/high gain players... it would BE BETTER.

It's never gonna be exploit proof, but what has already happened is kind of a worst case scenario. To assume it would happen again is pretty naive.

But ye, I got my theories, too, about... why they do things they way they do. I don't understand all the grind/RMT content they are adding. They seem to not realize that is bad to do early. I played BDO a bit before it started to really decline sharply, and their additions of 'trophy' level content were proof, to me, that the game was slowly fading away. And... it did. This game just came out tho.

Maybe I'd support letting all of the banned people back if there was a wipe This game is a joke for large scale competition, tho. Wait til siege. It's a damn shame.

It also doesn't take a genius to realize that some people did fly under the radar. It seems statistically impossible that they didn't.

Like I said before, to convince people to come back... it's MO. Now, it's still MO. Nothing changed just... I guess I have less patience for it now. Like Dumpy said, "I am pushing the right buttons today!" but really, sometimes I just don't shrug off wack shit. MO, with all it has to offer, will always be marred by their inability to stop cheating. It can be fun, but it doesn't really serve its purpose as HARDCORE COMP PVP MMO. The people who are believing they are top 1% gamers on this game are just dumbin', even if they are that... why not put it on something else. I got an idea why hehhhh.

So yea, do your lil exploits, enjoy 'winning.' Watch the pop drain.

 

[Silenko]

Yeah, This doesn't really fly. Mortal Online (the first one) had a reception of being hack friendly and we want to not repeat this potential issue.

Don't cheat and you can play.
Don't use inappropriate statements or vulgar language and you can play.

Its simple, be an adult and you'll be treated like one.

Excuse me, this is not true.

I will tell you about a past experience and one that happened 2 days ago:

I was out of the game for 1 year because I was too busy in real life and also tired of the rampant toxicity in game, the staff did NOTHING against vulgar language, racist, sexist and homophobic attacks over voice chat and text in game and while streaming the game. Some of the streamers still do it but the company refuses to take action, it seems to them that since you are using that language on twitch it doesn't affect their game (you are still streaming the game while being racist and so on).

SV has never taken so seriously attacks against players or hacks, most of the playerbase were adamant giving names of players, guilds, videos about hacks and so on and they never took action against them unlesss many months later, the excuse they gave for not taking action was that they were not doing anything wrong, but it was proved later that yes, they were doing it so they ended up all being banned.

What I am trying to say is that they don't take action against that behavior unless it affects them directly, in my personal experience they could care less if you are attacked on a daily basis in game with these kind of comments or if someone is using hacks.

2 days ago I was killed in pvp and I was completely dissed over voice plus many rude texts messages on local chat, when I asked a GM if this was allowed he replied : "We are currently reviewing our harassment policy"

Plot twist: He did nothing about it.

So no, you are wrong, you guys could care less about keeping a healthy community and by not taking action against this kind of behaviour you are kind of agreeing with it.

 

[poorconsumer]

Excuse me, this is not true.

I will tell you about a past experience and one that happened 2 days ago:

I was out of the game for 1 year because I was too busy in real life and also tired of the rampant toxicity in game, the staff did NOTHING against vulgar language, racist, sexist and homophobic attacks over voice chat and text in game and while streaming the game. Some of the streamers still do it but the company refuses to take action, it seems to them that since you are using that language on twitch it doesn't affect their game (you are still streaming the game while being racist and so on).

SV has never taken so seriously attacks against players or hacks, most of the playerbase were adamant giving names of players, guilds, videos about hacks and so on and they never took action against them unlesss many months later, the excuse they gave for not taking action was that they were not doing anything wrong, but it was proved later that yes, they were doing it so they ended up all being banned.

What I am trying to say is that they don't take action against that behavior unless it affects them directly, in my personal experience they could care less if you are attacked on a daily basis in game with these kind of comments or if someone is using hacks.

2 days ago I was killed in pvp and I was completely dissed over voice plus many rude texts messages on local chat, when I asked a GM if this was allowed he replied : "We are currently reviewing our harassment policy"

Plot twist: He did nothing about it.

So no, you are wrong, you guys could care less about keeping a healthy community and by not taking action against this kind of behaviour you are kind of agreeing with it.

You're the person not taking action here. With less effort you can mute people who offend you, and better yet...you can learn that there are many different people who express themselves differently, and that expression is really great. Watch words turn to actions when that guy instead of flaming you in text chat gets that option removed and decides to just social engineer you and watch how his betraying actions feel compared to some words you can mute.

 

[Silenko]

You're the person not taking action here. With less effort you can mute people who offend you, and better yet...you can learn that there are many different people who express themselves differently, and that expression is really great. Watch words turn to actions when that guy instead of flaming you in text chat gets that option removed and decides to just social engineer you and watch how his betraying actions feel compared to some words you can mute.

That logic doesn't work; I could ignore the issue but it would still be there, it's not a solution at all. And being racist, sexist or homophobic isn't "expressing themsleves differently".

 

[poorconsumer]

Can't speak on SV and what they knew or when they knew it, but yes, it does. Even if it doesn't, it creates the illusion which helps overall competitive confidence. Nothing is fair. I was telling my friend, who was getting down on the game, it's not meant to be fair. It's just about taking lumps sometimes.

They do need to delete a lot of mats, but, they don't have the ability to find out what to delete (and risk upsetting people by being overzealous.) Due to the scope of the game, they don't have the ability to patch the holes, either. This is a decade long issue.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the people we are calling 'hackers' are just people using tools. I don't see how duping is any different, tbh. I can see how jumping on something like glitched mobs could get muddy, but a smarter thing would be to just roll back the gains from said mobs during the time period, unfort, they do not have that ability.

All PC games do have hacking, more or less. I was a console kid first. Seen plenty of wild stuff, tho. PC is in general a shit show. You take a game like MO with so much stuff going on, such a small staff, it's just harder/impossible to police it in real time. It's arguably not possible with the logs they have, either.

I just don't understand why you want to let people back in. I am not moved by your story haha. I think if people did something like insult a GM and got banned or something, sure, they should be let back, but the whole... you get perma'd then you just buy another acct, I'm not seeing how that is good.

Funny thing is, with a proper key logger, they could probably spot people who came back on other machines or whatever. I would be very surprised if the way people play can't be forensically analyzed, especially with such a small pool of people. The way people set their buttons, who they talk to, how they type, their ping... it's circumstantial, but it could easily pin someone down even with a masked IP. I really think SV should get workin' on stuff like that if they want the game to be decent.

And I still think they should delete a bunch of mats. It's really sad people are against a wipe because it doesn't take long to spec up, and it certainly doesn't take long to start creating mats. Sure, you could be sitting on genuine gains, and that's cool, but I don't understand why you couldn't take that L for the long-term health of the game. Unless, for some reason, you don't think you could get the gains again. Not to mention, the game was dead/alted for a lot of the time, too. Makes 0 sense to me, if the game ever gets semi-active, that they wouldn't do that. The game was designed for MORE PEOPLE, NO ALTS, and they have fixed at least SOME of the problems. Then just go in hard on people who exploit. Again, with proper logs and a team to flag inconsistencies/top pvp/high gain players... it would BE BETTER.

It's never gonna be exploit proof, but what has already happened is kind of a worst case scenario. To assume it would happen again is pretty naive.

But ye, I got my theories, too, about... why they do things they way they do. I don't understand all the grind/RMT content they are adding. They seem to not realize that is bad to do early. I played BDO a bit before it started to really decline sharply, and their additions of 'trophy' level content were proof, to me, that the game was slowly fading away. And... it did. This game just came out tho.

Maybe I'd support letting all of the banned people back if there was a wipe This game is a joke for large scale competition, tho. Wait til siege. It's a damn shame.

It also doesn't take a genius to realize that some people did fly under the radar. It seems statistically impossible that they didn't.

Like I said before, to convince people to come back... it's MO. Now, it's still MO. Nothing changed just... I guess I have less patience for it now. Like Dumpy said, "I am pushing the right buttons today!" but really, sometimes I just don't shrug off wack shit. MO, with all it has to offer, will always be marred by their inability to stop cheating. It can be fun, but it doesn't really serve its purpose as HARDCORE COMP PVP MMO. The people who are believing they are top 1% gamers on this game are just dumbin', even if they are that... why not put it on something else. I got an idea why hehhhh.

So yea, do your lil exploits, enjoy 'winning.' Watch the pop drain.

the point about bringing people back is more that it is not explicitly clear what was said or done in these instances, my argument is shrouded in ideology because SV won't name and shame these people, tell us what they've done, tell us what they've said (except they'll name and shame the reddit ban list, WHICH I LOVE THEY DID), so I just instead talk about my opinion on how moderation and policy should be done. keep in mind, im probably arguing for harsher actions to be taken on one side, and far less on the other instead of this amalgamation of temp/perm bans they've done here.

Im always open to discussion and changing, why I speak about it. I have an insane amount of hours online and been in many situations so I feel very comfortable on my views in this area though.

 

[poorconsumer]

That logic doesn't work; I could ignore the issue but it would still be there, it's not a solution at all. And being racist, sexist or homophobic isn't "expressing themsleves differently".

I wouldn't try to describe intent when you hear something on the internet. Its the internet, its better to remove yourself from conversations online that bother you especially because text can be a terrible way to articulate context and you'll take things the wrong way sometimes...and sometimes you'll take them exactly spot on and if it offends you, the problem is solved when you mute them because its you're problem.

 

[Silenko]

I wouldn't try to describe intent when you hear something on the internet. Its the internet, its better to remove yourself from conversations online that bother you especially because text can be a terrible way to articulate context and you'll take things the wrong way sometimes...and sometimes you'll take them exactly spot on and if it offends you, the problem is solved when you mute them because its you're problem.

Oh, I'm not offended, that doesn't mean I don't have to report someone against the rules for action to be taken. Also, the issue might not affect me but it might affect others and I should as well take action against it.

Solution is never to ignore an issue, may it be hateful speech or hacking, even if it doesn't affect you directly you should try too work against it so it goes away.

 

[poorconsumer]

Oh, I'm not offended, that doesn't mean I don't have to report someone against the rules for action to be taken. Also, the issue might not affect me but it might affect others and I should as well take action against it.

Solution is never to ignore an issue, may it be hateful speech or hacking, even if it doesn't affect you directly you should try too work against it so it goes away.

i am arguing a change in the rules, specifically so that the argument that something is against the rules can't be used as the only argument that something shouldn't be done. also, that rule is just not perm banning for language, not that people shouldn't be removed for language, but that people LIKELY don't need to be perm banned for language.

voice chat i report for: lewd spam/lewd public talk. grey/white noise spam, music or sound bites for the purpose of disruption of conversation in areas that could be reasonably assumed to have conversations in.

text chat i report for: website/advertising, scamming bots, bot spam in general

 

[Silenko]

i am arguing a change in the rules, specifically so that the argument that something is against the rules can't be used as the only argument that something shouldn't be done. also, that rule is just not perm banning for language, not that people shouldn't be removed for language, but that people LIKELY don't need to be perm banned for language.

voice chat i report for: lewd spam/lewd public talk. grey/white noise spam, music or sound bites for the purpose of disruption of conversation in areas that could be reasonably assumed to have conversations in.

text chat i report for: website/advertising, scamming bots, bot spam in general

Someone shouldn't be banned for language if it's the first time, but if that person keeps on doing it and he/she has been striked, of course the ban should take place.

If you don't want to be banned for language, behave like an adult.

 

[poorconsumer]

Someone shouldn't be banned for language if it's the first time, but if that person keeps on doing it and he/she has been striked, of course the ban should take place.

If you don't want to be banned for language, behave like an adult.

banned or perm banned. if you're going to be banned for language it should be on the first time.

if you're going to perm ban someone for language, it should be perm ban first time. not for the "x" offense.

perm bans for language shouldn't occur, bans for language shouldn't occur. bans are for actions, mutes are for language.

 

[Emdash]

Im always open to discussion and changing, why I speak about it. I have an insane amount of hours online and been in many situations so I feel very comfortable on my views in this area though.

me, too. Kinda sad, kinda crazy. I grew up in just the right era to 'be one with the machine.' Def one of those 'press the power button as I pass to make morning coffee' sort of people. If I'm near a cpu, it's likely ON.

But yea SV will never be the gold standard of moderation and I wouldn't worry ur pretty head about it. Either play w/ low expectations or move to another game. Def not planning to get banned ever tho... unless SV bans me for something I said on forum. No mercy for cheaters, period. In any way. That's just it. I dunno how I feel about the harassment policy and all that, but actual manipulation of the game, inside or outside, is not to be tolerated. Like I said, until they patch that up, MO is just gonna be a memegam.

 

[Esproc]

Rules are rules, you agree before you play the game.

Ban 'em all.

 

[Contorto]

punishment is not a deterrent of crime. this is a proven fallacy.

 

[Tzone]

The issue here is that people saw their enemies abuse such things for almost a year with out punishment so at some point people had the conclusion that if SV isnt doing anything about it, then they should do it to even the playing field.

People should be punished but the "perma" bans for people is just idiotic because its SVs fault that many people had to copy their enemies since SV did nothing for almost a year.

Wipe some accounts give them a two week break because you messed up and pushed people who would have never cheated in the first place into cheating.

This is a lot of SVs fault as the many that did the deed because everone is doing it against them.

 

[Tzone]

I thought the thread was people complaining still about the bags. If we are talking about "harassing" SV employees most of the "harassing" is just you saying something that they dont like. Most of it is just a excuse to censor the player base.

No one respects SV if they have been around this game for more then a couple of months. Just terrible people and hypocrites that lie about their players. They have major ego problems and will never change.

When you are just terrible people it should not be surprising that there are a few people that take offense to you and go too far, normally they should receive some punishment but not much. However its usually entirly because of SVs actions towards players and they usually deserve it.

You cant trust a single thing SV says to people. If they say someone is harrassing them its prob the other way around. There is a reason the player base hates them.

 

[Emdash]

I thought the thread was people complaining still about the bags. If we are talking about "harassing" SV employees most of the "harassing" is just you saying something that they dont like. Most of it is just a excuse to censor the player base.

No one respects SV if they have been around this game for more then a couple of months. Just terrible people and hypocrites that lie about their players. They have major ego problems and will never change.

When you are just terrible people it should not be surprising that there are a few people that take offense to you and go too far, normally they should receive some punishment but not much. However its usually entirly because of SVs actions towards players and they usually deserve it.

You cant trust a single thing SV says to people. If they say someone is harrassing them its prob the other way around. There is a reason the player base hates them.

Ehh, no use wasting energy on hate! Put some love in ya heart.

I do legit( my pet word) feel like SV GMs got a little more cocky after this, though. IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY ARE GOADING.

But like I said to JD, if you aren't doxing or going in on someone's family (in a non-yo mama way,) there's no reason people should be worried in what SHOULD be an 18+ game. Racism, etc I guess fits that, too. But I bet that's a small portion of people who got it. More than likely, it was dudes who already had bad relationships w/ SV.

But yea... SV is SV. I got a warning last time for talking about that one time they let that bogus thing happen, so I won't repeat, but hate is def wasted. Better to just see it for what it is. Not worth even engaging them even if they become CONDESCENDING PRICKS WHO ACT LIKE YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND SIMPLE GAME MECHANICS... I mean, hypothetically