Crafting arrows for balance.

[Tzone]

Right now bows do extremely well on unarmored targets, and Good on light armored targets like mages, But after bonetissue armor the damage starts falling off hard. In a group fight bow can still put out good DPS against bone tissues. When it comes to ironbone armor then the viability of bows starts to come into question. Against steel their is no question that bows have viability issues outside of just being chip DPS in group fights.

Bows are extremely cheap to make and arrows are pretty cheap and easy to get. So its fair that steel a armor that takes a long time to make and is much more costly is stacked against bows. It would be unfair to buff the bow against armors which are more difficult and costly to make.



The solution would be to add more time and cost to archery gear to match the cost of the gear better.

So let us craft arrows. The arrows at the vendor can be on par with arrows made of pig iron they work the same as now. You can then make arrows out of steel that are ok against steel but is good against every other tier armor underneath it. Cronite arrows would be good against steel and ok for cronite. Also a cronite arrow would not do more damage it would just negate a level of armor. So a cronite arrows damage vs a light armored player wouldn't be too far off.


Also Make different arrow types mater. Like have bodkin arrows be the arrow to use against armored players and broadhead be the arrow against light to unarmored. Instead of bodkin being the "weakspot" arrow which almost never crits. Bodkins should have a higher damage then now but below broadheads with armor negation. Broadheads should work poorer then bodkins on armor but really work well on light armor or unarmors targets. Longbow arrows should also have these tips on them as well. This will add some more gameplay to archers, as they would switch out arrows if they were targeting a mage or a melee fighter.

It would also help make the shortbow viable against higher tier armors instead of forcing everyone onto longbow.

 

[ElPerro]

Bows shouldnt be good against higher tier armors lol Thats what magic is for.

 

[Tzone]

Bows shouldnt be good against higher tier armors lol Thats what magic is for.

Then why should people play archer if they will hit a wall at some point where it will not be viable to play?

 

[ElPerro]

Then why should people play archer if they will hit a wall at some point where it will not be viable to play?

Archery is already very OP vs light and medium armor and doesnt need to have stronger damage. If anything it should be nerfed as it encourages zerging smaller groups. Historically arrows did almost 0 damage to anyone in plate armor

If you want good damage against higher tier armor you should wait for the markmanship skill for weakspots and aim for the head.

 

[Rorry]

In MO1 we had blunt arrows that were better against metal armors. Also, the broadhead type is the type that gets weakspots, bodkins were only ever cheap arrows for training up archery skill in MO1.

 

[ValhallaRider]

Archery is already very OP vs light and medium armor and doesnt need to have stronger damage. If anything it should be nerfed as it encourages zerging smaller groups. Historically arrows did almost 0 damage to anyone in plate armor

If you want good damage against higher tier armor you should wait for the markmanship skill for weakspots and aim for the head.

The problem is actually 80% wear plate armors so...

 

[Tzone]

The problem is actually 80% wear plate armors so...

Yeah henrik would like to make reasons for players not all going plate but the only reason people would not gear out for PvP in plate is because of being a mage. Im a archer main and I have 18kg in armor because its kinda necessary and has no penalties to me.

 

[ValhallaRider]

Yeah henrik would like to make reasons for players not all going plate but the only reason people would not gear out for PvP in plate is because of being a mage. Im a archer main and I have 18kg in armor because its kinda necessary and has no penalties to me.

Absolutly agreed.
They're is actually 0 downsides on wearing plate armor, besides maybe few points into armor/heavy armor training depending on clades, points you would'nt spend on anything else crucial anyways.
I'd like to see more armor options with pros and cons tied to them to allow more playstyles.

 

[MolagAmur]

I've been on Henrik about giving more incentive to lighter armors for a long ass time. Last stream he said they are "still working on balance". He always like to talk about looking at data...so he should see that majority of non-magic users wear heavy plate and the only reason to NOT wear heavy armor is mana regen. The stamina penalty and fall damage just aren't significant enough to matter. The fall damage is absolutely brutal in very certain scenarios...but most of the time it wont even effect you.

I want all armors to have their uses. Archers should not be wearing full plate armor. People who want to play more agile warriors and give up protection should get an advantage that matches how they want to play. I don't want heavy armors nerfed either. I just want incentive to wear something other than your max armor weight. We have all these armors and material types...but all you need to worry about right now is what your max weight is and make something that matches it. Its boring.

Im also going to say that heavy armors not effecting movement speed at all is stupid and a big reason why everyone wears it. I know speed is really strong in these games...but you should be slightly penalized in sprint speed once you go over (10?) armor weight. And don't say "well then they will kite and people in heavy armor can't kill anyone" because thats bs. This isn't MO1. Pull out a damn bow, get on your mount, or wear lighter armor. You shouldn't have it all.

 

[Rorry]

Im also going to say that heavy armors not effecting movement speed at all is stupid and a big reason why everyone wears it. I know speed is really strong in these games...but you should be slightly penalized in sprint speed once you go over (10?) armor weight. And don't say "well then they will kite and people in heavy armor can't kill anyone" because thats bs. This isn't MO1. Pull out a damn bow, get on your mount, or wear lighter armor. You shouldn't have it all.

If that small of a difference in speed mattered, then no one would be playing a huergar. I don't think that a slight speed penalty will change anyone away from using heavy armor

 

[MolagAmur]

If that small of a difference in speed mattered, then no one would be playing a huergar. I don't think that a slight speed penalty will change anyone away from using heavy armor

Sorry, I should have clarified. I meant slight penalty per point over 10 weight. So the heavier you go...the slower you are. Of course it would need to be balanced properly...but I'm not going to waste my time with giving suggestions on that.

 

[Speznat]

Just an idea (dont take it to seriously)

• As a archer your job is not to kill heavy armed fighters. Your job is to kill mages and hybrids. and dex archers because noone else is better in this.
• As a mage your main goal is to kill heavy armored players and heal your people
• and as a fighter you kill every other close combat fighter and archers when you get them, and hybrids.
• as moutned combat your goal is to kill the archers
• as mounted archer your goal is same as before but you (can) get away from the fighters.

When you make the archer out of balance now. Than noone would play something different than an archer I think like it was in MO1 with the sniper bows 2011-2012. Just my opinion, I could be totally wrong.

 

[Tzone]

• As a archer your job is not to kill heavy armed fighters. Your job is to kill mages and hybrids. and dex archers because noone else is better in this.
• As a mage your main goal is to kill heavy armored players and heal your people
• and as a fighter you kill every other close combat fighter and archers when you get them, and hybrids.
• as moutned combat your goal is to kill the archers
• as mounted archer your goal is same as before but you (can) get away from the fighters.

When you make the archer out of balance now. Than noone would play something different than an archer I think. Just my oinion i could be wrong.

Whats wrong with archers being somewhat viable in all situations like how fighters are? Limiting people to say hey even though you are really good and can land all your headshots you still should lose is not good balancing. If people are limited to one account and not allowed to have a chance to win in some fair fights then why play archer.

Even mages eventually will have other spells to make solo play viable.

Rock Paper Scissor balancing where no matter how good you did you still cant win is bad.

 

[MolagAmur]

• As a archer your job is not to kill heavy armed fighters. Your job is to kill mages and hybrids. and dex archers because noone else is better in this.
• As a mage your main goal is to kill heavy armored players and heal your people
• and as a fighter you kill every other close combat fighter and archers when you get them, and hybrids.
• as moutned combat your goal is to kill the archers
• as mounted archer your goal is same as before but you (can) get away from the fighters.

When you make the archer out of balance now. Than noone would play something different than an archer I think. Just my oinion i could be wrong.

Rip hybrids right? Actual dead role. Thanks SV.

No but seriously, on paper what your saying makes sense but its not reality and shouldn't be. Naturally some roles are better than others at certain things, but it shouldn't feel so rock paper scissors as what you're saying

 

[Speznat]

Whats wrong with archers being somewhat viable in all situations like how fighters are? Limiting people to say hey even though you are really good and can land all your headshots you still should lose is not good balancing. If people are limited to one account and not allowed to have a chance to win in some fair fights then why play archer.

Even mages eventually will have other spells to make solo play viable.

Rock Paper Scissor balancing where no matter how good you did you still cant win is bad.

Rip hybrids right? Actual dead role. Thanks SV.

No but seriously, on paper what your saying makes sense but its not reality and shouldn't be. Naturally some roles are better than others at certain things, but it shouldn't feel so rock paper scissors as what you're saying

Yeah It was just an idea. XD YOu both are right.

Sure they need all more balancing but the problem is like in any other game everyone wants variety and wants to be unique.
But everyone wants that everyone has a fair chance aswell. And that is all subjective. So the balance cycle will never end until only one race is available with the same stuff.

The real question here is how the stuff should be balanced.

Should it be in general a rock scissors paper method.
Or should be based on Situations and envirement.
Should it be Like the real world was at medival times. were some weapons would be completly useless.

I wondering what henrik things all the time about these balancing stuff. I mean he does this since 12years and is maybe thinking atleast each week about balancing. Im not a completly maniac but i think Star Vault knowing what they are doing. After so many years they just know it. I remember the Longbows with 1shot kill. Many mounted archers with insane bows just to one shot you, was a fun month, many people rerolled. Or the Hybrid era 2011. and the Great blade era 2010-2012. Were no other weapon was used.

Anyway im going to much into wall of text here.
SO party hard and have a nice evening

 

[Jatix]

Technically weakspots will be a thing, a good archer could use a shortbow and broadheads and spam headshots to counter good armor.

I do think arrow crafting should be a thing, but to make it so archery has some equipment cost to be max viability, just like melee, and not to make it better. Its dumb that a 10s bow drops anything geared in less than steel. You should need to make steel arrows or somethign to dothe damage current vendor arrows do. At that point if Sv wanted to slightly buff high tier arrows to be better than the current vendor ones, I could deal (ogh arrows should be decent). But the 10s bow with vendor arrows slamming mages and mounts is just dumb, when a 10s weapon is trash.

 

[MolagAmur]

Technically weakspots will be a thing, a good archer could use a shortbow and broadheads and spam headshots to counter good armor.

I do think arrow crafting should be a thing, but to make it so archery has some equipment cost to be max viability, just like melee, and not to make it better. Its dumb that a 10s bow drops anything geared in less than steel. You should need to make steel arrows or somethign to dothe damage current vendor arrows do. At that point if Sv wanted to slightly buff high tier arrows to be better than the current vendor ones, I could deal (ogh arrows should be decent). But the 10s bow with vendor arrows slamming mages and mounts is just dumb, when a 10s weapon is trash.

I agree with you. But at this point I would be so afraid to see how they'd balance crafted arrows. Its a risk I wouldn't be willing to take if it were up to a vote.

 

[Jatix]

I agree with you. But at this point I would be so afraid to see how they'd balance crafted arrows. Its a risk I wouldn't be willing to take if it were up to a vote.

Normally I'd say risky changes arent worth it, I just passionately hate how good a worthless crepite bow is and welcome any change to make it so u actually need to use good mats to do good bow damage lol.

 

[Tzone]

Technically weakspots will be a thing, a good archer could use a shortbow and broadheads and spam headshots to counter good armor.

I didnt really understand weakspots at first because they are not working well in this game. They rarely happen from my experience and dont seem to do much.

Archery is being redone and not everything is implemented yet so weak spots will change again.